MrsX

I've been offered a job in Kingston, but I've gone back and forth on it because the pay is quite a drop from what I make in the UK. I have two small children (girls) and the crime also bothers me. I've read loads of discussions of this, but I hoped at some point it would all become clear. It hasn't. I don't see beach vacations as paradise and I hate hot places but I love an adventure.

Does anyone have some wonderful advice to drop out of the sky and make my decision easier? I did apply for this job, but I applied before I know Jamaica was one of the top three most violent countries in the world. When I went there it seemed calm enough, but I don't want to be overly limited by the precautions I'll have to take.

I'm expecting the job will be more laid back - my job in England is manic and the colleagues are catty. Is it an over-generalization to expect a change from this just because it's Jamaica? So far the people I met at the new perspective job seemed more laid back (so laid back they are taking forever with the negotiations!!!).

I'm also expecting the pay will be ok because cost of living will be lower overall, although from what I saw it didn't seem that cheap.

Any help is appreciated.

zanne

Hi Mrs X, although I am not from Jamaica, rather Barbados, a few things jumped out in your post...first of all yes, it is hotter than blazes (with the exception of higher elevations where a constant breeze does the trick), with the global economic problems and the ever encroaching North American influence yes crime is on the upswing throughout the Caribbean, and finally the cost of living is high. I would say unless you are dying to be in the Carribean-- stay where you are...

MrsX

Thanks for the words.
I'm dying to leave my job is what I'm dying to do. I'd take a job almost anywhere at this stage.

I went there in August and it was very hot, but we always stayed in air-conditioned cars or buildings and then every once and a while it rained, so in fact the temperature bothered me less than I thought it would.

The problem is my long suffering OH is neutral, which is always disconcerting. You need the OH on board in a move. He says neutral is not negative, but it's not positive either.

I'm not British so I want to leave the UK eventually. I think OH is just weary because this will be the 5th country I've dragged him to.

vigiequeen

Hi - I used to live in Kingston and now have two small girls of my own and no way would I take them to live there. I'm not saying it would be impossible if you really want to go - there are some good (private) schools there - but there is nothing to do for small children, the nearest decent beaches are quite a long drive away and the crime situation is terrible. We hardly walked anywhere, everyone lived on compounds (which was a plus as they usually have pools and it's a good way to get to know other people) and it was very claustrophobic. It is also very expensive - we were there on overseas allowances so it wasn't too bad but I would not want to live there on a local wage. And yes you can live in air conditioning all the time if you want but it's not very healthy and your electricity bills will be very high! Oh and it's also very expensive to fly anywhere in the Caribbean so you won't be doing much island hopping!
And that laid-backness? It gets extremely frustrating when all you do is chase people, wait around for people that don't turn up, leave your thirty-fourth message in a row....I think you have to be a certain type of person to live in the Caribbean. Preferably someone who is so laid-back yourself that you really won't mind if nothing gets done for months on end....
If you want to leave your job that badly I would try somewhere else. Sorry if that isn't what you wanted to hear.
PS There are great things about Jamaica, but Kingston just isn't a great place to move to with small children....

MrsX

This is all very sad.

After two months they came back with an answer to my e-mail in which I needed just one point clarified. It's very frustrating that they take so long to answer e-mails, but when they came back with the answer I wanted, I just assumed I was ready to go.

That was just yesterday. But I hardly ever get positive replies on whether I should go there from people who know Kingston, so now I'm confused again.

The children are 6 and 8 and I'd like them to see as much of the world as possible. The 8-year old has lived in 4 countries, the other in 3. I've lived in 8, so before I go "home", I wanted them to go to just one more. My husband wants to live in my country, and just the thought of going back there makes me feel like my life has come a full circle and now it's coming to a close. Is this a mid-life crisis?

My husband has spent a lot of time in South America and thinks I'm underestimating how frustrated I'll be living in a developing country. But I like the fact that I feel I can help at the place I'll be working. Maybe that's unrealistic - maybe nothing will get done. But nothing ever gets done where I work in the UK and improvements are never ever going to happen there, so I can't see how any place could be worse in that regard. At least in the new place there is that remnant of hope that I can be useful.

I've been looking for work for a while and have no savings, so I can't just up and move without a job. This seems to be my only option other than staying, and honestly staying isn't an option. I'm so looking forward to giving my boss notice.

The colleagues in Jamaica live on a local wage and they seem to be doing alright, although they do have spouses with good jobs as well. It's only a three year contract and I think it will give my kids an experience they will always remember. It certainly can't be worse than the job I have, and the people can't be less friendly, no matter who they are. I can't stay here, so I expect I will go. I'm 85% certain.

vigiequeen

Please just make sure you research it properly. If you can't afford a private school, be aware that the level of teaching is not anything like in the UK - and, for example, corporal punishment is still used. Can you afford good security and to live in uptown Kingston? As foreigners, you will be targets for criminals. Make sure your daughters are safe on their way to school - do you want them to be targetted by kidnappers? What sort of things are you used to doing with them? There are no play parks or places to take them - although I am sure there are sports clubs etc through the schools. Can you afford two cars for both you and your husband? What is he planning to do with himself? While I was there, I knew several non-working spouses. Some made the most of it and did things like diving courses (1-2 hours drive from Kingston). Many of the wives I knew ended up leaving and going home.

The fact that it took them so long to get back to you with an answer to your email gives you some indication of what working there will be like.

I am sure someone will come on here and say they have done it as expats with children and it was fine but I am giving you my honest opinion.

MrsX

My job is giving me a place in a gated area.
I thought we would be targeted, but then I heard from everyone that that is ridiculous - that all the crime is with the gang wars on the other side of Kingston.
We'd be in East Kingston and it looked pretty affluent in general there. My colleagues said nothing ever happens, and that break-ins and violence is more common in London than East Kingston. I wouldn't doubt that's true.
The kids wouldn't go to the most expensive private schools, but the prep schools all had swim teams and other sports teams which the school they are at in the UK does not have. Here in the UK we pay through the nose to get them involved in sports after school. At least there it's through the schools and is included.
And the beach we went to was only 20 minutes from East Kingston and it was perfectly fine.
My husband doesn't have a single thing to do with himself here in the UK. We have wondered what people do with themselves here since we came. He's neutral on the Jamaica thing, but he's not neutral about the UK. Not at all.

I'm getting mixed signals on what it's like there .

vigiequeen

Ok well go for it then. I am giving you an honest opinion having lived there myself. Yes the violent crime is mainly gang on gang but you will find a lot of returning residents are also targeted because they are known to have cash. My husband works in law enforcement so gets to hear quite a lot about what goes on. But as long as you are aware of the dangers and don't do anything stupid like walk around down town or after dark you will probably be fine. If you are on a gated community that is good.

I think you have made up your mind and I know you don't want to hear that it's not a great place to live. Personally I thought all the beaches close to Kingston were pretty dirty but there are some lovely places to go for the weekend.

Hopefully you are going in with an open mind - eg it won't be a holiday. I will be interested to hear how you get on. Good luck!

TJCobbs

I havent lived there personally, although I do have family who have left the UK to live and work there. Ive been there on vacation, and even have a house out there - Yes, in Kingston!

There is crime everywhere in this world... Kingston & Jamaica as a whole is no different. Im sure there are certain places here in the UK that you would not live... Kingston is no different! There are good and bad areas. Obviously, in the built up/good areas, property/rental prices are gonna be a lot higher than in the 'ghettos/shanty towns'.

For children, there are some really good private schools. Public schools really arent an option, because you would not get the same level of education that you would in public schools here. Again, this costs money! Also, as a previous poster said... There isnt very much for the children to do. You would have to enroll the kids into extra curricular activities to keep them occupied and for then to have some kind of social life. My cousins engaged in sports and art stuff for fun.

Regarding cost of living... Do not be fooled into believing that it is cheap to live there, because it isnt! Hence the reason why so many people from the islands are trying to get off the islands (all of the Caribbean), and moving to Europe or the USA in order to make money to live a better way of life when they go back! However, if you have a good job, you should be just fine! Its pretty much swings and roundabouts!!

I think that you should weigh up the pros and cons of moving and staying here, and base your decision on that! If it is a case that its equal, I would look into minor things, such as weather and way of life!
I am in the process of making the same decision myself!

Good luck!!

sugababe

I seriously don't believe anyone should move to a foreign country without doing there thorough investigation and 100% sure thats what they want to do. Moving to Kingston might not be the best thing for you right now. Find out whether your employer can put this post on hold.

Contrary to what others say, the public schools in Jamaica are very good, private schools however do tend to have more extra curricular activities.
Jamaican schools are on par or even better than UK schools (sorry).

Violence is still a big issue. AC is used in most cars and building so the heat shouldn't be an issue. If you live on the hills that would help a lot as there is normally cooler.

Jamaica is not cheap at all. It depends on your standard of living. Food and utilities are very expensive. I would say for a family of 4, you need to be working a minimum of $200000(£1800) per month. However, there are persons living on minimum wage which is about the equivalence of less that £200 per month.
Similarly in the UK there are persons living on less than £500 per month and I struggling to survive as a single person with all most 5 times that amount.

pgtips

You seem like you have made up your mind so just be careful and enjoy the experience. You at work, kids at school, what does husband intend to do ? Be a "desperate house husband"

juno1

Hi, my husband has been offered a job in KIngston and I am too very confused over what to do! Did you end up moving there, how is it going if you did?

RayJay

Hi Juno,

I live in Kingston though am currently in the UK on holiday seeing the family. If you have any questions I will try my best to answer from my experiences of which are both positive and negative but overall positive!

pgtips

RayJay, I am glad you said overall positive because it is so easy to talk ourselves out of doing something by soley focussing on the negative aspects.
Good for you

AlienUk

Excuse me??????????????????

Are you Jamaican? Have you ever lived in Kingston??

You are ABSOLUTELY right, the standard of teaching in Kingston Jamaica was NOTHING like the UK, NO-ONE from my PUBLIC high school displayed the appalling level of ignorance of MANY of the UK educated people I have come into contact with have displayed.

Kidnappers???????? When last was there a kidnapping in Jamaica?? Please feel free to show me HARD evidence.

No parks?? No where to go???

Guess HOPE GARDENS doesn't exist. Or beaches....or Port Royal or anywhere.

Really disgusts me to hear people with no knowledge or with LIMITED knowledge spout utter garbage masquerading as the facts.