are you tired of all the justifying?
Aug 15th 2008, 4:22 am
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 74
are you tired of all the justifying?
I just got back from the border were we went to land with new PR visas. It's the second time I took precious time off work and dragged my wife and children down there. I won't bore you with our story. Compared to many people who post here our journey has been easy. My company even paid a lawyer to handle the PR. All I needed was to supply the documents, although having moved some 22 times in the last 18 years you can perhaps imagine some of the complications.
The truth is that deep down after all we did to get them I actually wanted them to refuse us. I was almost willing them to present me with one more stupid pointless bureaucratic hoop to jump through so I could tell them to get stuffed. I'm tired of justifying myself and my family to these people. My wife and I are both 38 years old. Like many of the folks I read about here, we are both fully qualified and experienced professionals. We are here because I was head hunted by a Canadian company. We never came here looking for some Canuk fantasy utopia, and we would leave tomorrow if a better offer came up. We pay (a lot of) tax, we have integrated and made friends in our local community and our children are doing well at the local school. Yet we are second class citizens, no not even that - we aren't citizens at all.
So we have to keep justifying ourselves. My wife wants to work as a teacher, so she needs a certificate from the Ontario College to Teachers. So there's another inexplicable fee and she's back on the phone to confused secretaries at her old colleges in the UK trying to get those completely pointless and non-existent 'sealed' transcripts again: "no! one copy in a sealed envelope...what do you mean you don't have a university stamp!". Looking on the bright side, at least now we have PRs I won't have to go cap in hand to the local school board in September for special permission for my children to attend school.
Anyway I said I wouldn't bore you all and I already have, so my question to you all is this: don't you just get tired of it? Doesn't it make you look around and think, is it really worth all this just to live in this place? Perhaps that's the real purpose behind all the bureaucracy - to put people off. It's worked for me. I'm defeated and I've had enough. After 10 years of being foreigners we want to be citizens again, and by chance of birth this means the UK.
Back at the border when the CIC guy gave us our PRs he said 'congratulations'. I think he was surprised by my unenthusiastic response. We bought the kids a Hershey bar across the street and drove home. On the way back the kids fell asleep and we began plotting our departure from Canada.
The truth is that deep down after all we did to get them I actually wanted them to refuse us. I was almost willing them to present me with one more stupid pointless bureaucratic hoop to jump through so I could tell them to get stuffed. I'm tired of justifying myself and my family to these people. My wife and I are both 38 years old. Like many of the folks I read about here, we are both fully qualified and experienced professionals. We are here because I was head hunted by a Canadian company. We never came here looking for some Canuk fantasy utopia, and we would leave tomorrow if a better offer came up. We pay (a lot of) tax, we have integrated and made friends in our local community and our children are doing well at the local school. Yet we are second class citizens, no not even that - we aren't citizens at all.
So we have to keep justifying ourselves. My wife wants to work as a teacher, so she needs a certificate from the Ontario College to Teachers. So there's another inexplicable fee and she's back on the phone to confused secretaries at her old colleges in the UK trying to get those completely pointless and non-existent 'sealed' transcripts again: "no! one copy in a sealed envelope...what do you mean you don't have a university stamp!". Looking on the bright side, at least now we have PRs I won't have to go cap in hand to the local school board in September for special permission for my children to attend school.
Anyway I said I wouldn't bore you all and I already have, so my question to you all is this: don't you just get tired of it? Doesn't it make you look around and think, is it really worth all this just to live in this place? Perhaps that's the real purpose behind all the bureaucracy - to put people off. It's worked for me. I'm defeated and I've had enough. After 10 years of being foreigners we want to be citizens again, and by chance of birth this means the UK.
Back at the border when the CIC guy gave us our PRs he said 'congratulations'. I think he was surprised by my unenthusiastic response. We bought the kids a Hershey bar across the street and drove home. On the way back the kids fell asleep and we began plotting our departure from Canada.
Aug 15th 2008, 4:33 am
#2
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Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Shawnigan Lake, Vancouver Island, BC
Posts: 1,464
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Sorry to hear things are not what you expected here in Canada. For us, yes its def been worth it and personally have never felt like 2nd class citizens here
Why would you have had to go cap in hand to the school board for 'special permission' for your children to attend school out of interest?
Aug 15th 2008, 4:45 am
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 74
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
don't get me wrong it's worked out quite well for us here. I have a good job, my wife volunteers at the local school, we have lots of friends. We are off camping again tomorrow. We will miss it. We just want to be free to move forward in life without asking permission all the time...
Aug 15th 2008, 5:41 am
#4
Job Hunting in Ottawa
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 407
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
which you are now.
Aug 15th 2008, 5:47 am
#5
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Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Whistler, BC
Posts: 224
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
I just got back from the border were we went to land with new PR visas. It's the second time I took precious time off work and dragged my wife and children down there. I won't bore you with our story. Compared to many people who post here our journey has been easy. My company even paid a lawyer to handle the PR. All I needed was to supply the documents, although having moved some 22 times in the last 18 years you can perhaps imagine some of the complications.
The truth is that deep down after all we did to get them I actually wanted them to refuse us. I was almost willing them to present me with one more stupid pointless bureaucratic hoop to jump through so I could tell them to get stuffed. I'm tired of justifying myself and my family to these people. My wife and I are both 38 years old. Like many of the folks I read about here, we are both fully qualified and experienced professionals. We are here because I was head hunted by a Canadian company. We never came here looking for some Canuk fantasy utopia, and we would leave tomorrow if a better offer came up. We pay (a lot of) tax, we have integrated and made friends in our local community and our children are doing well at the local school. Yet we are second class citizens, no not even that - we aren't citizens at all.
So we have to keep justifying ourselves. My wife wants to work as a teacher, so she needs a certificate from the Ontario College to Teachers. So there's another inexplicable fee and she's back on the phone to confused secretaries at her old colleges in the UK trying to get those completely pointless and non-existent 'sealed' transcripts again: "no! one copy in a sealed envelope...what do you mean you don't have a university stamp!". Looking on the bright side, at least now we have PRs I won't have to go cap in hand to the local school board in September for special permission for my children to attend school.
Anyway I said I wouldn't bore you all and I already have, so my question to you all is this: don't you just get tired of it? Doesn't it make you look around and think, is it really worth all this just to live in this place? Perhaps that's the real purpose behind all the bureaucracy - to put people off. It's worked for me. I'm defeated and I've had enough. After 10 years of being foreigners we want to be citizens again, and by chance of birth this means the UK.
Back at the border when the CIC guy gave us our PRs he said 'congratulations'. I think he was surprised by my unenthusiastic response. We bought the kids a Hershey bar across the street and drove home. On the way back the kids fell asleep and we began plotting our departure from Canada.
The truth is that deep down after all we did to get them I actually wanted them to refuse us. I was almost willing them to present me with one more stupid pointless bureaucratic hoop to jump through so I could tell them to get stuffed. I'm tired of justifying myself and my family to these people. My wife and I are both 38 years old. Like many of the folks I read about here, we are both fully qualified and experienced professionals. We are here because I was head hunted by a Canadian company. We never came here looking for some Canuk fantasy utopia, and we would leave tomorrow if a better offer came up. We pay (a lot of) tax, we have integrated and made friends in our local community and our children are doing well at the local school. Yet we are second class citizens, no not even that - we aren't citizens at all.
So we have to keep justifying ourselves. My wife wants to work as a teacher, so she needs a certificate from the Ontario College to Teachers. So there's another inexplicable fee and she's back on the phone to confused secretaries at her old colleges in the UK trying to get those completely pointless and non-existent 'sealed' transcripts again: "no! one copy in a sealed envelope...what do you mean you don't have a university stamp!". Looking on the bright side, at least now we have PRs I won't have to go cap in hand to the local school board in September for special permission for my children to attend school.
Anyway I said I wouldn't bore you all and I already have, so my question to you all is this: don't you just get tired of it? Doesn't it make you look around and think, is it really worth all this just to live in this place? Perhaps that's the real purpose behind all the bureaucracy - to put people off. It's worked for me. I'm defeated and I've had enough. After 10 years of being foreigners we want to be citizens again, and by chance of birth this means the UK.
Back at the border when the CIC guy gave us our PRs he said 'congratulations'. I think he was surprised by my unenthusiastic response. We bought the kids a Hershey bar across the street and drove home. On the way back the kids fell asleep and we began plotting our departure from Canada.
Your moaning that you had to take 2 occasions off work to progress in the process, my heart bleeds.
Yeah I appriciate there is a lot of work to be done and endless amounts of proving yourself etc... when i finally become a resident here I hope that everyone else trying to get in would have to go through the same hoops to prove themselves, I would prefer not to live in a country of unskilled immigrants (aka the UK IMO).
Thanks for taking up one of the visas that could have gone to someone who would chop off their arm to live here.
what do you expect? your on a british expats forum that consists of people hoping to get residency and you say that.
Last edited by ScottDrummer; Aug 15th 2008 at 5:50 am.
Aug 15th 2008, 6:04 am
#6
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Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Whistler, BC
Posts: 224
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Are you serious? you ungrateful tw^t. If you have no enthusiasm to live here go home. I have such hopes to live here and I hate to hear of people get PR and dont bother to live here, or turn their nose up at the opportunity. I guess its your choice after all, but why go through all the trouble to 'want to be refused' at the border.
Your moaning that you had to take 2 occasions off work to progress in the process, my heart bleeds.
Yeah I appriciate there is a lot of work to be done and endless amounts of proving yourself etc... when i finally become a resident here I hope that everyone else trying to get in would have to go through the same hoops to prove themselves, I would prefer not to live in a country of unskilled immigrants (aka the UK IMO).
Thanks for taking up one of the visas that could have gone to someone who would chop off their arm to live here.
what do you expect? your on a british expats forum that consists of people hoping to get residency and you say that.
Your moaning that you had to take 2 occasions off work to progress in the process, my heart bleeds.
Yeah I appriciate there is a lot of work to be done and endless amounts of proving yourself etc... when i finally become a resident here I hope that everyone else trying to get in would have to go through the same hoops to prove themselves, I would prefer not to live in a country of unskilled immigrants (aka the UK IMO).
Thanks for taking up one of the visas that could have gone to someone who would chop off their arm to live here.
what do you expect? your on a british expats forum that consists of people hoping to get residency and you say that.
Aug 15th 2008, 8:22 am
#7
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Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Chilliwack BC
Posts: 559
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
I've had to trawl through years of midwifery education/training/work etc and get everything verified and justified and I'm happy to do that. It makes me feel secure in the knowledge that the profession I will be working in has high standards and expectations. I only wish the UK would take the same approach when letting people in.
Aug 15th 2008, 12:38 pm
#8
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Back at the border when the CIC guy gave us our PRs he said 'congratulations'. I think he was surprised by my unenthusiastic response. We bought the kids a Hershey bar across the street and drove home. On the way back the kids fell asleep and we began plotting our departure from Canada.
I love your response when the guy congratulates you. It will help me get through my dull Friday afternoon of work. Immigration officials are the WORST in England and in Canada!
Aug 15th 2008, 12:53 pm
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 197
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
This is the immigrant experience the world over.
My Mrs is non-white and foreign born and she is given the third degree every time she re-enters the UK via Heathrow. I guess a lot of British born people aren't used to this kinda treatment. We are only in Canda as a result of the skills we can give to their economy. It's a Capitalist thing.
My Mrs is non-white and foreign born and she is given the third degree every time she re-enters the UK via Heathrow. I guess a lot of British born people aren't used to this kinda treatment. We are only in Canda as a result of the skills we can give to their economy. It's a Capitalist thing.
Aug 15th 2008, 1:01 pm
#10
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 74
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
I've had to trawl through years of midwifery education/training/work etc and get everything verified and justified and I'm happy to do that. It makes me feel secure in the knowledge that the profession I will be working in has high standards and expectations. I only wish the UK would take the same approach when letting people in.
Actually I went through somewhat more hassle than that, but as I said I won't bore you. I guess unlike many I don't feel privileged to be here. It's just a place where I live and work. Ungrateful perhaps, but why should I be grateful? No-one has 'given' me anything...?
Aug 15th 2008, 1:23 pm
#11
Dorfus wafflebutt
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Ayr, Scotland
Posts: 284
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
[QUOTE=ManBearPig;6682239]I think this completely ilustrates my point. Why on earth do you feel you have to go through a more stringent verification and justifiction to work in your profesion in Canada compared to in your home country? If you were a Canadian citizen you would not be tested in this way. Why should there be such double standards? Do you feel your experience and education is not on par with your superiour Canadian colleagues? I do not. Under this system the ones with the 'high standards' as you put it will only be the imigrants.
I can understand both sides of this discussion,
I too have to pass exams and spend a small fortune on getting registered in canada in my field of radiography.
It does upset me when the australian locums come in without having to prove they can do the job except the bit of paper that says they have the degree, get paid at least double than us and skip home again after 2 years with more money than they came with.
However i also recognize that by Canada being strict on registration it will make my success (fingers crossed) even more of an acheivement than getting my degree here in the UK. Im hoping the immense pride ill have in myself will outweigh all these negatives.
In the end i will end up with a wider range of experiences than any of my colleagues in Scotland or Canada.
K
I can understand both sides of this discussion,
I too have to pass exams and spend a small fortune on getting registered in canada in my field of radiography.
It does upset me when the australian locums come in without having to prove they can do the job except the bit of paper that says they have the degree, get paid at least double than us and skip home again after 2 years with more money than they came with.
However i also recognize that by Canada being strict on registration it will make my success (fingers crossed) even more of an acheivement than getting my degree here in the UK. Im hoping the immense pride ill have in myself will outweigh all these negatives.
In the end i will end up with a wider range of experiences than any of my colleagues in Scotland or Canada.
K
Aug 15th 2008, 1:29 pm
#12
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 74
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Good, interesting post. Considering it was the Canadian company who wanted you in the first place it does sound like it has been a complete drag. It highlights the inefficiencies of government in immigration.
I love your response when the guy congratulates you. It will help me get through my dull Friday afternoon of work. Immigration officials are the WORST in England and in Canada!
I love your response when the guy congratulates you. It will help me get through my dull Friday afternoon of work. Immigration officials are the WORST in England and in Canada!
PaulOK you are bang on.
littletwinkle46 I totaly agree with your comment too. I fact I told myself the same thing whe I arrived here (and all the other places we lived before). The trouble is the more worldly experience I get, the more I get tired of justifying it to people...
Aug 15th 2008, 2:12 pm
#13
Wanna-be Canadian
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 176
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
ManBearPig...
I'm sorry to hear you think you're having such a bad time of things.
Surely, as you have moved so many times, you understood the likely problems & hassles you would experience taking a job in Canada.
You have done what is required of all new immigrants, nothing more, nothing less - you knew what you were in for, and luckily, all the form filling hassle was taken care of by a pro which your employer paid for.
Many on this forum, myself included, would love to swap places with you.
It sounds like your whining.
You have taken, I presume, a much better paid job in Canada, so you enjoy the cash & lifestyle... so much so you even chose to stay despite your feelings.
Now that you have your PR you are almost there, the light at the end of the jumping through hoops & justifying yourself tunnel is in sight.
Hang in there and give Canada a chance after the need to justify has ended - you'll probably see things a very different light, if things still feel terrible you can always leave...
...but please don't whinge about having a pro to take care of everything, having a well paid job and still not being happy.
M.
I'm sorry to hear you think you're having such a bad time of things.
Surely, as you have moved so many times, you understood the likely problems & hassles you would experience taking a job in Canada.
You have done what is required of all new immigrants, nothing more, nothing less - you knew what you were in for, and luckily, all the form filling hassle was taken care of by a pro which your employer paid for.
Many on this forum, myself included, would love to swap places with you.
It sounds like your whining.
You have taken, I presume, a much better paid job in Canada, so you enjoy the cash & lifestyle... so much so you even chose to stay despite your feelings.
Now that you have your PR you are almost there, the light at the end of the jumping through hoops & justifying yourself tunnel is in sight.
Hang in there and give Canada a chance after the need to justify has ended - you'll probably see things a very different light, if things still feel terrible you can always leave...
...but please don't whinge about having a pro to take care of everything, having a well paid job and still not being happy.
M.
Aug 15th 2008, 2:44 pm
#14
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 1,810
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Nope! It is what you make of it, like anywhere. It does seem a bit pointless going to live somewhere then wanting to go somewhere else because there are some rules in place. Rules are in place so cater for the majority, not individuals who feel they are better than everyone else and should be treated differently.
Aug 15th 2008, 2:57 pm
#15
Seasoned Maritimer
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Posts: 8,309
Re: are you tired of all the justifying?
Nope! It is what you make of it, like anywhere. It does seem a bit pointless going to live somewhere then wanting to go somewhere else because there are some rules in place. Rules are in place so cater for the majority, not individuals who feel they are better than everyone else and should be treated differently.