Gezza

I am back from Vancouver after 3 years emigration bout with whole family [2 primary school daughters].
I wish I could scream as loud as possible: If you Brits have a house in the U.K. (South East perhaps?) for Goddness sake do not sell it to buy a house in Canada.Never mind what house and where. You will lose about up to 50.000 pounds for every year you stay in Canada. Ponder on your future.
Trends in both housing markets are not likely to change.
For me been afinancial disaster! What a fool I was. I wish someone had taken me to side and smacked me back in 2001
for mentioning the word Canada! Seriously!
I will never get over this hangover.

paddythepilot

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So, er wot went wrong then?

Why did you come back from Vancouver?

I would have thought that if you liked Canada enough to give it a go, you would be there for the long term?

Anyway, I think there is general agreement that house prices in Vancouver are going up due to the Winter Olympics.....?

We would be interested in hear more about your story.

Cheers

stepnek

Absolutely. Your account has me interested Gezza but it lacks the detail as to what has gone so badly wrong. Do you feel able to enlarge on your story?

Gezza

Well, we both loved the concept of Canada and Vancouver offered
everything you want. One look at the map explains it.
But after 3 years we discovered: Constantly dealing with being ripped off for poor services from banks to schools via Insurance, Buildres,dentists, ...and all other tradesmen. Once is never enough to sort something out out there.
Further,on England - difficult to make friends. Being so far from family and having so little by way of entertainmnet. Grotty pubs, defrosted restaurant meals, In the South East U.k. you drive 3 miles and feel uplifted by beautiful properties and gardens people have. In Vancouver you drive 3 miles and you need a glass of vodka to get over the depression. My feeling is you really need to hate England big time to enjoy Canada long term. Otherwise given 2 - 3 years you will cry for it like for return of good health!

Sorry, 180 deg turn on what I would have written 3 years ago.

Gezza

...Thats not to mention 5 months of continuous rain each year. Leaking roofs and basements - subject of continuous haranging with Insurance firms. No thanks

paddythepilot

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OK, fair enough!

So the weather was shite.........was it worst than the UK though? Five months of rain does sound rather 'British' than 'British Columbia'?

How did you find the job market, were you able to secure a decent job with a living wage?

What was it that first attracted you to Vancouver in the first place?

Could you have tried another part of Canada?

Cheers.

CalgaryAMC

I fully support the advice not to sell property in the UK if it is financially possible not to.

stepnek

Why do you consider that you have lost £50,000 a year since moving?

mickj

There are a lot of issues to address before taking the plunge, of
moving here to CANADA. I moved over here from London, and i have
made a little checklist of my experience for people who want some
info.

I hope you will find the bottom article useful:

Want to relocate to Canada (From UK)

Disclaimer: I can only give information herein from my own personal
experiences, I relocated from London UK to Ontario in Canada where I
married and now live with my wife. I make every effort to be
accurate in the information I give out but do urge you to confirm
everything with other sources and if you find any inaccuracies
please let me know.



This is the first thing you need to think about, its very easy to
look at another country as a utopia, somewhere that is better than
where you may be now, this "grass is always greener" mentality is
something to be wary of. If you want to emigrate because it seems a
cool place to live investigate this assumption thoroughly, learn
about the country you wish to relocate to, in this case I
specifically write about relocation to Canada and Canada is a very
large land mass so ask yourself where in Canada you are going, this
may already have been decided for you through a work placement but
investigate such things as:

Employment

Crime Rates

Homelessness

Health and Dental

Schools and Colleges

Child Care

leisure facilities

House Prices or Rent

Cost of Living

Laws

The Weather/Climate

All the above need to be considered carefully and its advisable to
use the many resources on the internet but the best seem to be the
local or even national news websites. I could list some but they are
easy to find using popular search search engines and web addresses
can change.


Ask yourself "Why?"

If you have been offered a job abroad that you cannot turn down or
most of your family has already moved then you probably have reason
enough but please continue reading the following paragraphs.

If I was to ask you "What's your reason for emigrating?", You may
answer this quickly and dismissively with things like "the crime
rates lower" or "standards of living are higher" but I urge you to
take some time and serious thought as to your reasons, maybe you
have made the decision on the back of a messy break-up, you think
things are not going well for you so you want to run, this is quite
common, it is genetic that when you feel threatened you do one of 2
things, you stay and fight or you run for the hills, its known
as "Fight or Flight" by those who study human behaviour and it may
be what you are basing this decision on.

Practical Exercise

Find something to write with and a pad, work through the items
below, I recommend you write as it makes you consider more the
responses more carefully than if you type it. Limit the responses
below to 5 items each

1. Write down reasons why you think you want to emigrate, remember a
limit of 5.

2. Write down the things you will be happy to leave behind and why.

3. Write down the things you will miss and why.

4. Write down the things you are looking forward too.

If with part 1 you found it difficult to limit it to 5 then this is
quite a good indicator that you want to do it and have considered it
more than just waking up and deciding its a good gig but look at
your reasons and do some research into your responses. If you
said "The crime rate is lower", "Better education for my
children", "Better employment for my skills", check these out and
confirm that you are not wearing rose colored glasses.

If question 1 you found it difficult to answer with 5 reasons but in
response to number 2 you had way more than 5 reasons you may need to
consider that you are running away from issues in your life and
looking for a utopia where everything will be like a "happy ever
after" story. If this is the case look again at your answers and see
if there are other ways of dealing with these issues. If things look
very bad then discuss with your GP options that may help you deal
with these issues. Don't be afraid to do this, I personally have
been diagnosed as a depressed personality and was on anti-
depressants which helped me through dark times and there is also
things like counseling. If you have difficulty answering this with 5
items or have only a few more than 5 its a sign that you are not
wanting to emigrate to escape bad feelings. I am not going to
comment about if you are wanted regarding criminal activities as
reasons to emigrate or reasons of persecution in your home country.

If to question 3 you can think of a large amount of reasons which
may hold strong bonds like really missing all your mates or you are
very close to your family then maybe you need to consider a less
permanent trip, a 3 to 6th month stay abroad with a return ticket,
on a British passport you can stay 6 months in Canada. If you said
you will miss material items or your local coffee shop then you
probably wont find it to difficult adjusting abroad.

If you cannot think of many answers to question 4 then you may want
to see how many responses you put to question 2, if 2 is high and 4
is low then it could be a case of running from something
or "flight". If you write allot then check out that you have your
facts right about where you want to go and that all the things you
are looking forward to will be there for you.

This exercise is just to help determine if your reasons are good,
Here are some good reasons:

You have had a job offer that advances your career

Most of your close family (Mum, Dad, Bothers, Sisters) already
reside there

The Love of a great person

You have skills required by the country, a desire to live there, a
clear understanding about the country and the culture and funds to
support yourself.

If your reasons are still good and your still determined then we can
proceed...

What's Next?

I would advise that you read carefully the Canadian Immigration
documentation viewable here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/

Documentation on this site goes though things such as eligibility,
funds required and require application processes, depending on your
eligibility level you may have to wait up to a year and a half or
more for the paperwork to be processed but there are other methods
into Canada and ways of applying within Canada

mickj

For those interested in the origin of my post above, and when it first appeared anywhere, the link below will point you in the right direction on this forum, under the thread, canada...where do i start.

Yes the post came from my IP address on my computer, by a user known as gunner until it was banned, and the moderator suggested a name change. Am sorry to bore some of you with all this, as i know you have better things to do than trolling through google looking for the source of other people's posts. If people want to use my posts, good on them, i haven't got a patent on them.

The dates speak for themselves ! Seems there is an effort to provoke me into saying things that will lead to a ban again, its not the first time this has happened, but the moderator will be notified, instead of me going off on one.


http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ting+to+canada

trishie

Such a disturbingly accurate posting mick.

However, since our bird of providence flew south 2yrs ago, we no longer own a home in the UK, what's the harm in running away in search of new birds (feathered, that is)?

Trishie.

Iain Mc

Blimey. Sorry it went so badly wrong n'all but I don't think your experience correlates to all Brits who go to Vancouver. There are plenty who've done very well out of the move! What area were you/your partner working in?

The housing thing is certainly important, if things stay as they are it's effectively a one-way ticket if you have to sell in the UK. Buying back into the British housing market is a horrible prospect. You've been very unlucky with the way the housing market has gone in the UK since your departure, that at least is not Canada's fault!

For the record, I do intend to sell my property and move to Vancouver with my partner, having been lucky enough to have done well out of a renovation and the last five years of property lunacy in England. We will be leaving enough for a house deposit in the UK as insurance, we have a plan and are as certain as we can be things are going to work. If we weren't, we wouldn't be moving. I've lived in Vancouver before, fairly recently, and know it very well. I have a lot of friends here and it's like a second home already. It has it's foibles but then so does anywhere else in the world. We can't wait to move, are over here every year anyway and are looking forward to being here permanently.

Obviously, every negative account is extremely useful for those heading in the opposite direction to yourself, so more specifics would be appreciated!

What gripes did you have with the schooling, for example? And where abouts in Greater Vancouver were you based?

Cheers, Iain

Gezza

OK, fair enough!

So the weather was shite.........was it worst than the UK though? Five months of rain does sound rather 'British' than 'British Columbia'?

<<<<In U.K. you get rain but mostly they are showers with bright spells in between. I lived in the U.K. for 18 years before Canada and never experienced for example 5 - 10 days of constant rain Day and Night at the same rate without a change of cloud colour. That is bound to make you feel down.

How did you find the job market, were you able to secure a decent job with a living wage?

<<<<I was very very lucky with job had a decent salary (about 30k U.K pounds equivalent) and in my trade.I knew of many Brits who weren't so lucky and were very pressed down having to go for off-trade jobs for little money. Over there almost ll recruiting is done via friends and friends of friends. Croniesm and Nepotism reigns. I did not meet anyone there who found a job from paper or via agency.

What was it that first attracted you to Vancouver in the first place?

<<<<Nothing. I ended up ther because my firm moved me from Calgary.

Could you have tried another part of Canada?

<<<<Calgary was nicer and I would say more to the British taste.
pople slightly more reserved and services and schools at higher level, Also roads were miles better in Alberta.

(from another response)
Did I have gripes about schools.
<<<<My daughter is 6 and had been in her new school in Epsom 2 weeks now. I asked here the other day where she prefered to be at school here or Maple Ridge/vancouver. She said without hesitaton here in Epsom. Why? "Because over there we were bored and teachers shouted at us too much!" Her state school in vancouver had a good reputation. In spite of being state they were constatnly inventing schemes whereby we had to pay them money. Big sums like 250 dollars a month plus another 75 in case I or my wife did not turn up for their monthly maintenance work or Bingo night (fund raising). Education standards? My daughetr who is 6 and can already manage to read a basic book by just
self practice was getting "good report" that "she was able to recognize and pronounce letters" I think their level is adjusted for asian influx.Perhaps rightly so. Uniforms arrived in one big box all mixed up toghether like some oxfam clothes bank and cost afortune to buy for the cronic quality they were. And unlike in good old England you can not go off to your ASDA or Woolworth to buy it yourslef cheaper. You can only get it from the school.
The incompetence was just mindboglling.Everywhere. I remember thinking it is got to be fairies or angels putting it all right for these folks at night that it all seems to hang together.

A hyginsit who pulverised my gums that I was unable to eat on 1 side for 3 months. Over Christmas as well!
3 plumbers could not find the mains water tap in my house and wanted to rip the walls open. In the end my friend found it ina small hatch in laundry room.
A lawyer who asked me to sign a deed of purchase contract for 750 dollars but when Ia asked if he could explain part of it to me. He said he did not know!

I could go on for the rest of the day!


Did someone mention Englands homelessness. Do not make me laugh. Wait till you see West Hastings street in Vancouver where
an entire section of te city like perhaps 20 blocks, is a getto of people who are completey deranged by drugs and daily try to do away with themselves before your eyes.Rolling on the floor yelling for money. Like in some surreal movie. I had never seen scenes as disturbing as this outside a cinema!

mickj

This is turning out to be an interesting thread, apart from me being told my post is appearing somewhere else, i don't need a cyber patrol officer. Its good that would-be emigrants are getting to see both sides of the coin. One point i want to point out too, is that its always difficult when you emigrate as a family, than as a single person, and that is a point that needs addressing too.

I came as a single person, in other words just having myself to deal with, but when you have a family, there are the kids issues, the wife, and then your own personal struggle to provide for the family.

If after a few years, the kids, the husband or the missus turns out not to like the switch, its back to square one again. That is why that fact finding misssion is always important in making the final decision. I have been coming to canada way back when i was in high school, learning about the country, and that continued through my university and work days until i finally moved over.

With a return ticket going for what they are, and the amount of days we have off in the UK, there is no reason not to come over on a fact finding mission, years before you take the plunge.

stepnek

You know these forums are great for reading about other individuals experiences but we have to remember that it's all relative.

For example Gezza complains about three different plumbers failing to find his water supply, but that kind of thing isn't exclusive to Canada. Three years ago I got three different plumbers in to try and fix my boiler and not one of them wanted to know. They were all so anxious to quote me for a new boiler instead and were not prepared to even try and fix it. I couldn't believe my ears. In the end a friend of a friend who was a plumber helped me out and fixed it within two hours of arriving. Now does this make the UK a bad place? Of course not.

Sometime ago I purchased a three year old car and paid extra to the dealer for an extended warranty. I took it back there for it's MOT and it failed on the diesel pump which they said they would fix for £400. I pulled out my warranty believing that I was covered and they said that it only covered faulty parts and this was not faulty just worn out. In the end I took my car to a local garage and they said that the diesel pump was fine and gave me an MOT. So does this make the UK a bad place? Of course not.

If I went out and bought a Ford Focus and over the next year it gave me nothing but trouble what would I say to someone if they asked my opinion about the Ford Focus? I'd say “Don't touch them, they are nothing but trouble�. Like I say, it's all relative.

I cannot understand anyone moving to another country if they already have a very nice lifestyle and believe that somehow it's going to be even better than where they are already. What makes them think that? You have to go in with your eyes wide open and realise that once the honeymoon period has passed then it's down to just getting on with life again and if you've left a very good life behind you then you might just end up in trouble and regretting it.

For those of us planning such a move we need to be wide eyed and open to the negatives. Maybe the weather, the short holidays, the expensive dental treatment, high insurance and so on. Those are real things to consider along with the problem of professionals maybe not having their qualifications recognised once over there. But anecdotal stories of dodgy plumbers, hygenists, lawyers or anything else like that are just anecdotal. Very relevant to the individual but not to the masses because we already have experiences like those here in the UK.