Edna Bucket

Sorry Ellsie but if you have a phobia this is not possible without expert help. It is not simply a matter of putting your feelings to one side and getting on with whatever it is that frightens you, which is what most of us do every day of our lives anyway.
It is also not just a matter of wanting something badly enough, although this can be a useful part of the therapy.

ellsie

Having trawled through I think the original posters, or one of them, said their parent was frightened of flying, as am I,but that can be overcome and should not be an excuse to pressure their offspring. I agree with you about phobias which need expert help. In this discussion it would need to be a pre-existing condition to hold water.
Great name by the way. Are you happier in small, confined spaces?

moondevil

Karla

i think most of us will go through this, i have had every trick played on us and luckily we are still going.......
my mum is very close to me and as i lost my father some years ago, she sometimes acts like one of my kids :curse:
she lives 5 mins away and we have always kept her informed on what we are doing, she turned roand the other week and told me she never wants to hear about canada again etc etc:curse::curse:
i left her house upset, angry etc etc, but decided i wouldnt leave it at that, so left her a lone for a while and then went to see her a few days later and told her how i felt and didnt let her get a word in edge ways, told her how scared i felt, how hard it is for us with 3 young kids, but told her our choices in the uk, she knows how we battle and how i want my kids to have a better life and that her feelings for me are the same as i have for my kids.
she did the best for me, she must allow me to do the best for my kids now...
HIS family are split, i am the one that are taking there grand kids away, im the devil etc, but its him that has taken me to canada with HIS company and shown me the light, only took him 4 years to get me over there as i didnt want to fly so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best advise i have received is from his great gran "if i was to bring my kids up again in this day and age, i would be jumping on that plane with you"
she knows at her age that she may never see her great grand kids again, but she is our driving force, she sees what the uk was and what has happened so far, but she has also said that if she can, shell be on thatplane to visit us - i must take my hat off to her - 84yrs young and still willing to fly


gill

Jaffa0007

Karla

I know how you feel. When my wife and I announced that we wanted to move to Canada, my parents were over the moon and were living the dream through me, their son. Probably this has been made a lot easier for me becuase they have done the same thing themsleves, migrating several years ago from the West Indies.......

However, my wife (Elaine's) parents were a different story....

Every time we visited them and tried to discuss this, the subject was always changed, her parents would cry, the subject of "Once you have children, how would we see them?" was mentioned....

After this going on for several months, it did put a strain on our relationship, until my brother-in-law had a chat with me about it. I explained to him that all we (Elaine & I) wanted was for her parents to wish us good luck, they did not even have to like us leaving, but to wish your daughter luck would be the least they should do....they did not even do that!!:curse:

My brother-in-law relayed this back to Elaine's parents and some other home truths (like the fact that Elaine's Mum's family have moved up north and see rarely sees them to give an example of one..), and hey presto...the penny has dropped!!!!

We can now talk about this freely and in an adult manner, which was not happening before, so my suggestion to you is as follows:

1. Explain to your Mum that you now have a family, and you are doing what is best for them, not anyone else. You vaule her opinions and love her dearly, but she can not live your life for you.

2. If she only sees you for only every 4-5 weeks at a time now in the UK, if she comes to see you once you settle in Canada she in probably stay for a couple of weeks. You will see more of her there than you will here!!!

The situation with us now is that Elaine is very close to her big family, and so much so that when we sell our house (hopefully once we get the medical results....) in the next 3 months, we will move in with her parents, see Xmas out and leave early next year 2008!! They (Elaine's parents) are over the moon with this.

Everything has come right for us regarding this situation. It is not easy, and I am sure emotions will be high once we are on the way to the airport to start our new life in Canada. These are only my opinions, and might or might not help you, but at least you have comfort in knowing that there are several people out there (including Elaine & I!!) that have gone through the same thing!!!

All the best and I wish you and your family every success in Canada

Brian
xx

julius smith

hi, karla03!
what you are going thru is exactly what we have been putting up with since we emigrated to toronto back in 2004. to cut a long story short, my parents did a dirty bit of s.it-stirring behind my back when we had just landed in canada, by phoning around all my siblings and telling them how we had just dumped them (the parents) and run off to canada!
of course that was guaranteed to raise the temp and so it did--we even had friends of siblings come round to where we were staying and cussing us for dumping our parents!! anyway, all this and what with the kids complaining about their inability to cope with the high schooling standards, we just had enough and decided to pack up and come back.
but what happened to us when we did come back was the really funny (or sad) bit, depending on how you look at it. soon as we got home here, and the front door was opened, all the parents said was "oh, so you're back...."!
not once to this very day, has either of them asked me, the wife or kids what life was like over there (we managed to stay for around 1 yr there), how did we cope, what friends the kids made, nothing.
so, with hindsight, what i would say to you is just go ahead and NEVER look back, for that is the way to sort out these kind of meddling parents. we should have done the same, but now having moved back, we're stuck for a while, at least till the kids studies are complete.
your parents (and mine too) have got a bloody cheek by taking you all on a guilt trip -- what happens when they are not around? they will have dumped on your life for good. dont let it happen and make your move ASAP!

dozy_muppet03

I listened to hundreds of similar stories such as yours and still my advice is simply you have to do what you have to do for you and your own. I would certainly suggest to have your parents over as quick as possible and regulary and that may help, but what ever you do , dont give up or relent as it could make you resentful.


rgds


John

Judy in Calgary

This is not to contradict what other posters (especially Yoong) have said in this thread, but rather to add to it.

KEEP THE END IN MIND

In his book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey asks you to imagine your own funeral. He asks you to imagine four people delivering eulogies. These four people are (1) a family member, (2) a friend, (3) a co-worker, and (4) a member of your community. Imagine what they say about you. Write down the points they make about you. Look at the list. That list provides you with a road map of how you want to spend the rest of your life.

Now the question arises as to which person in each category you would want to speak at your funeral. In my case, my dad has passed away, so it would be impossible for him to speak. But I wouldn't want him to represent the family, even if he could. My mom still is alive. I've resolved my issues with her, I feel at peace with her, and I love her. But I still wouldn't want her to speak at my funeral. If any family member delivered a eulogy at my funeral, I would want it to be one of my sons. That tells me where I want my main efforts within the family to be focused while I'm still alive.

As you probably can tell, I've done Stephen Covey's suggested exercise, and I've found it to be very informative.

VIEW MULTI-GENERATIONAL PATTERNS

From Carol Tuttle (author of Remembering Wholeness), I got the idea of looking at dysfunction as a multi-generational phenomenon.

When Tuttle was a young woman, she suffered from severe depression. Initially she receive some relief from reading John Bradshaw's writings (books like Healing the Shame That Binds You and Family Secrets). Bradshaw was one of the pioneers in shedding light on dysfunctional family systems. That initially led Tuttle to blame her parents for the abuse that she'd suffered as a child.

As Tuttle continued to seek healing, however, she gained new insights. She came to recognize that her parents had been depressed, her grandparents had been depressed, and her great grandparents had been depressed. She came to see that what she'd learned from Bradshaw's books was only part of the picture, since it took the analysis back only one generation.

She came to believe that her parents had not been equipped to give her what she had needed while she had been growing up and that they had done the best they knew. She described her forgiveness of them as a deeply freeing experience.

Tuttle came to believe that her life's purpose was to learn whatever lessons were required to free herself of the multi-generational pattern of depression. Further, she saw it as her life's purpose to demonstrate to her children that people can live in joy. As a by-product of that, she has built a career in which she has demonstrated to other people that they can live in joy too.

I think this ties in with Yoong's post. I think it helps to recognize that the parents whom we've heard about in this thread who have behaved badly probably are suffering from a variety of conditions. At a minimum they probably are suffering from depression. Probably their own lives and their own marriages are not that great. I'm not saying that we should let them stop us from emigrating. What I am suggesting, though, is that it would help to stand back and look at the bigger picture, as Yoong recommended.

GRATITUDE

From a CD that featured Dr. Carol Look, I got another idea that has helped me in dealing with family members whom I have found to be difficult.

Carol Look stated that, a couple of decades ago, her marriage was in terrible shape. It was so bad that she was in a women's emergency shelter, afraid for her physical safety.

While she was in the shelter, she was inspired to start a project whereby she would find one thing about her husband to be grateful for every day. The only good thing she could find to say about him was that he was very prompt in replacing spent light bulbs. So the first day she said, "Thank you for giving me a husband who is so prompt about replacing light bulbs." The second day she said, "I'm grateful to have a husband who replaces light bulbs as soon as they burn out." The third day she said it again, and so on.

Long story short, she and her husband are still together. She says they have a wonderful relationship, and he is very gallant and considerate towards her. She says the dynamics of their relationship started to change when she started to look for his good points, forgave him for his bad points, and believed in his potential to change for the better.

I too have found that exercise to be helpful in dealings with family members, co-workers, etc.

CUTTING OFF TOXIC PEOPLE

Sometimes people are so poisonous that the only remedy is to have no further dealings with them. If that's the only recourse you have, then that's what you need to do.

Speaking for myself, however, remaining aloof from family members, such as my mother, was a temporary and incomplete solution. After some time, the need to avoid her and planning my movements so as to avoid her in itself became a burden. Besides that, the unresolved issues continued to fester below the surface, like an abscess.

What was far more freeing for me was having the heart to heart conversation in which we made peace with each other. It felt like a huge burden being lifted off my shoulders. It literally, and I MEAN literally, felt easier to breathe after that.

JUST DO IT

At the end of the day, you need to go where your heart is leading you.

I'll impose one more quotation on you. I heard it the other night on Dr. Christiane Northrup's television program about menopause that featured on our Public Broadcasting Station.

She advised her audience to listen to the tongue in their shoe rather than the tongue in their head. She said that your mind will lie to you, but the direction in which your feet want to walk is where your truth is to be found.

I think that is the most succinct way of putting it that I have heard.

Hope that helps.

Beebop

I would agree with what Judy is saying but it is not an easy path to understanding.

I was told years ago that suppressing pain and distress is only a sticking plaster and that delving around and sorting as much as possible out is more painful in the short-term but better in the longrun.

It does tend to need the co-operation of family members but if you stick to your guns, you do get somewhere and it's better to do positive things than sink under the depression. And actually, a bit of distance is helpful in gaining perspective.

Judy in Calgary

I agree with what you've said, Beebop.

A qualification that I perhaps should have provided is that I've been an expat for THIRTY YEARS.

These are not conclusions that I have arrived at after popping out to the corner store for a pint of milk.

dingbat

Hmm. As someone who deals with so-called dysfunctional families every day of the week, I honestly believe that "delving around" in basically poisoned families is often destructive and counter productive. "Sorting things out" can be a euphemism for shifting blame around for past events. It can also be a convenience to invent excuses on behalf of others, for what is simply inexcusable behaviour in the present. I will not encourage my clients, for example, to undertake family therapy where there is an identifiable source of "toxicity" in the family (any definition thereof) unless the client will consider separating themselves from it. The success stories I can think of exist where people have taken stands and ended never ending cycles of abuse or intimidation (in any sense of the words) by cutting off the toxic family members. Clinical depression, as opposed to just being deeply naffed off, is a chemical imbalance that you are either predisposed to or not. Distance is not going to fix that. Many families get upset and conflicted when one branch decides to leave, be it for emigration purposes or marriage or simply relocation. It is a grieving process for those that are left behind and often perversely ends up as a grieving process for those who leave. Adults make decisions because they can or they have to. Either way, there will be a consequence, be it good or bad. Expectations that people should be happy or supportive of those decisions are invariably disappointed if the other person does not see a benefit to you or to them, but that's just life. To me, it comes down to this:

If it all goes horribly wrong in the place to which you have chosen to emigrate, who will you rely on to help you? If the answer is your family, i.e. those people with whom you are now in conflict, resolve your differences. You will always need them, you are unlikely to cut them off and will otherwise suffer a loss that will affect you in your new life.

If the answer is that you would rely on only yourself or your immediate family unit, but not those with whom you are currently in conflict......

ladymoose

I didn't start this thread, but just wanted to say that I think everyone is providing very thoughtful and helpful advice here - an issue which has effected or is likely to effect most immigrants one way or another to a lesser or greater degree.

karla03

Thank You all for your fantastic advice.

I have spoken with my Mother today and I think she is starting to come round. She knows deep down that it will be better for me and my family but she is scared, which I can understand as its a whole new ball game for us too. She told me that she's worried that I won't like it and that I'll be left on my own with the children - which is what I do now, so nothing new for me. She has never been to Canada and does not know what to expect so her fears are causing her to be more worried than she should be. I guess shes just being a mother

My Mother and Father have told me that they will come across as soon as they can afford it (they have just set my sister up in her new home), so if it means that Simon and I have to pay for each set of parents to come across in the first year we will as this may help them understand why we have moved and to help them see why we fell in love with Canada.

I know we will make a go of it and I know I will miss our family in the UK, but I have to do whats best for my family and moving to Canada is the best................................so............ ........... Taxi!!!

fuschiagirl

It sounds as though you are making progress! Well done!

It will all work out - they will probably love Canada and always be on your doorstep! Whether that is a good thing or not.........

The very best of luck with your plans for the future.

Joanne



Joa

karla03

We are making progress and I am so much happier now. I know there will still be the odd comment but my Father told me that they wanted to move to Australia in 1996 but my Mother backed out of it as my Grandma was way to ill and my Mother could not leave her.

My Mother stills see me and my sister as her babies (which all mothers do, I can relate to that) and shes scared that we will not need her anymore. But shes looking forward to seeing Canada now and you never know what the future holds - she may even move herself.

The TWs

Karla - I think when they see Canada it will change a lot for them. My in-laws have just come back from 3 weeks and they said the first day they could see why we wanted to move and by the end of the trip they decided that they wanted to buy their own flat so they can come for long periods of time!!!!