What to do !?!
Feb 1st 2005, 2:23 pm
#31
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 453
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by welshmountie
Not sure whether anyone has attempted to reply to your 5 good and 5 bad points about a move to Canada......
My wife and I are seriously thinking of moving to Canada too from the UK. We're looking at the Quinte area of Eastern Ontario following a great holiday there two years ago. We have similar questions to you and many of the members on this site have answered your questions honestly and fairly.
I may have a slight advantage over you in that I emigrated to Canada with my parents when I was younger in 1974 for eight years and was lucky enough to get Canadian citizenship in the process. We lived in Sydney (Nova Scotia), Calgary (Alberta) and Sarnia (Ontario). I'm now back in the UK and am torn between a move back or not now that I have my own family with a wife and two infants. Even with this extra knowledge I too do not know what to do. I think the prime reason for this is that back in the days we lived there, the gulf between our two countries was a lot bigger. Canada was definitely the promised land and was well ahead of the UK in most things. Britain was the poor relation with strikes and recessions. Things have changed in the UK and we now earn more than the Canadians and have caught up in most materialistic things. Granted Canada still has a lower cost of living, but again the gulf has narrowed in recent years.
Personally, I would like to go back for the space, weather and future prospect for our kids. It may not be as good in Canada as it used to be, but lets face it, there is more chance of Canada being a wealthier country 15-20 yrs down the road than the UK and this means our kids will prosper more there.
To summarise, even though I still haven't made my own mind up and I'm hoping this forum helps me, it is a close call at the moment. Here are my 5 pros and 5 cons not in any particular order...
5 Pros
1. Better weather. I love four distinct seasons rather than the blend of greyness we get in the UK. I love snow and winters are drier. The summer in Canada, particularly in Southern Ontario is nice and hot and long.
2. Living Space. Like you, I prefer the typical Canadian housin residential area. When we lived there we could fit another house between us and neighbour with room to spare and I would consider us average.
3. Future Opportunity. In time, Canada will be far better able to cope with a changing and ever smaller world.
4. Cost of Living. I still believe that on average, it is probably about 33% cheaper to live there. The biggest differnce is house prices and we could get two four bedroom houses in Canada for the price of ours here and they would both be bigger than our UK house.
5. Environment. Generally I find Canada cleaner. Maybe it is because it has more space for things to get lost in but first impressions are a lot better. I also love the outdoors and this is certainly the place to lose yourself on the weekends.
5 Cons (Bear in mind, a lot of these are based on rumour than any real evidence.)
1. Family GPs are hard to come by. There is worrying evidence that there is a lack in confidence in their public health system. I guess this could be true for most countries, UK included. However, it appears that lot of doctors and nurses are leaving for the border with US for their employment.
2. Children will miss out on having our UK relatives close at hand. Ours are very young and it will be a definite disadvantage not having their grandparents and aunt and uncles around.
3. Annual holidays and pay. I really worry about having only two weeks leave compared to the five plus I get here. A sixth pro for me would have been more family time? I'm not so sure about this given the stingy leave companies give in Canada. Pay is also not comparible but I guess the dollar will go further anyway.
4. We're British and we're used to the British way, like any country it may be difficult to adapt in new social ways and culture. Having said that, there are lots of Brits out there. Key is to mix with Canadians too. They may appear to lead different lives to what we're used to but after a few years you'd probably find that you like their new ways. May not be as much of a con as first appears!
5. I think that if you decided you didn't enjoy Canada and wanted to return to the UK it would be more difficult financially to return. A lot depends on UK house price stabalisation and dollar/sterling exchange rates.
Hope this helps. Let us know if you go and where.
Good luck.
My wife and I are seriously thinking of moving to Canada too from the UK. We're looking at the Quinte area of Eastern Ontario following a great holiday there two years ago. We have similar questions to you and many of the members on this site have answered your questions honestly and fairly.
I may have a slight advantage over you in that I emigrated to Canada with my parents when I was younger in 1974 for eight years and was lucky enough to get Canadian citizenship in the process. We lived in Sydney (Nova Scotia), Calgary (Alberta) and Sarnia (Ontario). I'm now back in the UK and am torn between a move back or not now that I have my own family with a wife and two infants. Even with this extra knowledge I too do not know what to do. I think the prime reason for this is that back in the days we lived there, the gulf between our two countries was a lot bigger. Canada was definitely the promised land and was well ahead of the UK in most things. Britain was the poor relation with strikes and recessions. Things have changed in the UK and we now earn more than the Canadians and have caught up in most materialistic things. Granted Canada still has a lower cost of living, but again the gulf has narrowed in recent years.
Personally, I would like to go back for the space, weather and future prospect for our kids. It may not be as good in Canada as it used to be, but lets face it, there is more chance of Canada being a wealthier country 15-20 yrs down the road than the UK and this means our kids will prosper more there.
To summarise, even though I still haven't made my own mind up and I'm hoping this forum helps me, it is a close call at the moment. Here are my 5 pros and 5 cons not in any particular order...
5 Pros
1. Better weather. I love four distinct seasons rather than the blend of greyness we get in the UK. I love snow and winters are drier. The summer in Canada, particularly in Southern Ontario is nice and hot and long.
2. Living Space. Like you, I prefer the typical Canadian housin residential area. When we lived there we could fit another house between us and neighbour with room to spare and I would consider us average.
3. Future Opportunity. In time, Canada will be far better able to cope with a changing and ever smaller world.
4. Cost of Living. I still believe that on average, it is probably about 33% cheaper to live there. The biggest differnce is house prices and we could get two four bedroom houses in Canada for the price of ours here and they would both be bigger than our UK house.
5. Environment. Generally I find Canada cleaner. Maybe it is because it has more space for things to get lost in but first impressions are a lot better. I also love the outdoors and this is certainly the place to lose yourself on the weekends.
5 Cons (Bear in mind, a lot of these are based on rumour than any real evidence.)
1. Family GPs are hard to come by. There is worrying evidence that there is a lack in confidence in their public health system. I guess this could be true for most countries, UK included. However, it appears that lot of doctors and nurses are leaving for the border with US for their employment.
2. Children will miss out on having our UK relatives close at hand. Ours are very young and it will be a definite disadvantage not having their grandparents and aunt and uncles around.
3. Annual holidays and pay. I really worry about having only two weeks leave compared to the five plus I get here. A sixth pro for me would have been more family time? I'm not so sure about this given the stingy leave companies give in Canada. Pay is also not comparible but I guess the dollar will go further anyway.
4. We're British and we're used to the British way, like any country it may be difficult to adapt in new social ways and culture. Having said that, there are lots of Brits out there. Key is to mix with Canadians too. They may appear to lead different lives to what we're used to but after a few years you'd probably find that you like their new ways. May not be as much of a con as first appears!
5. I think that if you decided you didn't enjoy Canada and wanted to return to the UK it would be more difficult financially to return. A lot depends on UK house price stabalisation and dollar/sterling exchange rates.
Hope this helps. Let us know if you go and where.
Good luck.
At least you are looking at it all very realistically so if you decide to move here, you will have a pretty decent idea of what to expect. Getting a job before you move would be the ideal although they can be very hard to find (but not impossible) whilst living in the UK.
Chris
Feb 1st 2005, 2:24 pm
#32
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 214
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by welshmountie
You're right, but we get the five/six weeks plus all the bank holidays. Still a hard pill to swallow.
Perhaps my best bet is to get a job offer before I go and ensure that I am happy with a leave period that hopefully I can negotiate for up front.
Is it common for companies to interview people whilst their abroad? Will good references and a telephone call be enough to convince companies? Maybe they'd even ship me out for an interview up front?
Thanks.
Perhaps my best bet is to get a job offer before I go and ensure that I am happy with a leave period that hopefully I can negotiate for up front.
Is it common for companies to interview people whilst their abroad? Will good references and a telephone call be enough to convince companies? Maybe they'd even ship me out for an interview up front?
Thanks.
Feb 1st 2005, 2:26 pm
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 453
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by iaink
As discused numerous times in the past, the vast majority of expats are happily going about there daily lives without a care in the world about coming back to this forum to post there positive experiences.
There are generally 3 types of posters here.
1. Prospective immigrants, wide eyed, excited and positive about Canada, who mostly ask questions and occasionaly answer posts based on their aquired knowledge and experience.
2. Sad addicts like me, who came looking for a timeline and who cant seem to drag themselves away from this bad soap opera, and who try to help with there experience of life in canada and the immigration process.
3. Expats in canada having problems who come here in search of answers to serious issues, and who try and answer posts based on there experiences.
Not really a representative cross section of the expat population.
The nature of these forums is that people come here with problems, and that negativity tends to seep into the fabric of the forum. Most expats are content in there new canadian life. I am one of them, but Im not going to try and persued you to do anything. Come for an extended visit and see for yourself...make good use of those 5 weeks of vacation time!
There are generally 3 types of posters here.
1. Prospective immigrants, wide eyed, excited and positive about Canada, who mostly ask questions and occasionaly answer posts based on their aquired knowledge and experience.
2. Sad addicts like me, who came looking for a timeline and who cant seem to drag themselves away from this bad soap opera, and who try to help with there experience of life in canada and the immigration process.
3. Expats in canada having problems who come here in search of answers to serious issues, and who try and answer posts based on there experiences.
Not really a representative cross section of the expat population.
The nature of these forums is that people come here with problems, and that negativity tends to seep into the fabric of the forum. Most expats are content in there new canadian life. I am one of them, but Im not going to try and persued you to do anything. Come for an extended visit and see for yourself...make good use of those 5 weeks of vacation time!
Feb 1st 2005, 2:32 pm
#34
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: In a dream!
Posts: 219
Re: What to do !?!
I feel battered, shattered, nackered, you name it.
I think I need to take a break from this forum before I decide to move to the moon instead. Like a few have said, this bad soap is almost compulsive and it will be difficult to drop for even a short while.
I think I need to take a break from this forum before I decide to move to the moon instead. Like a few have said, this bad soap is almost compulsive and it will be difficult to drop for even a short while.
Feb 1st 2005, 3:16 pm
#35
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 371
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by welshmountie
I feel battered, shattered, nackered, you name it.
I think I need to take a break from this forum before I decide to move to the moon instead. Like a few have said, this bad soap is almost compulsive and it will be difficult to drop for even a short while.
I think I need to take a break from this forum before I decide to move to the moon instead. Like a few have said, this bad soap is almost compulsive and it will be difficult to drop for even a short while.
Good luck.
Feb 2nd 2005, 6:02 am
#36
Happy in Canada.
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg, manitoba
Posts: 1,440
Re: What to do !?!
I found this site after five years here, I don't have a problem with living here.
Why do I post here because I got a load of help from other sites and other people and thought I'd try to return the favour.
My Job situation isn't as good as the UK but 99% of that is due to me not looking for a better job.
I do 8:30 to 5:30 get every weekend off get 3 weeks a year starting in July and have 2.5 half weeks left, we take long weekends and stats ( bank holidays) together. Christmas the office Closed but we could make up the hours from september - April from april to September we can bank hours and get Friday afternoon off. which is normally everyone in the office except 5 people who can't because their in support, reception etc.
If your lucky enough to get a job where you are friends with the staff and its in career you enjoy work isn't always a chore.
Other immigrants I know
1 left England as Lawn mower repairer with a city council, got a job with a mining company maintaining the Equipment travelled to every part of the world with deep mines, is now a manager on 70,000+ living in Calgary having great fun, with his ATV's RV, his wife learnt to be a massage therapist and has her own business..
Another started as a forest Manager in UK is now VP of a software company. After leaving to work in Vancouver can back to Winnipeg as it was to crowded and wet in BC.
Another left the Army became a tech doc write,r owns two arces which he has his "Goode Life" lot his wife is a christian youth movement leader and they are very happy with their church and friends amd their kids.
With 5 weeks holiday in the UK where do you go?
Looking for Sun Sea Scenery. it on your doorstep every weekend here. If you want it to be, that is.
Why do I post here because I got a load of help from other sites and other people and thought I'd try to return the favour.
My Job situation isn't as good as the UK but 99% of that is due to me not looking for a better job.
I do 8:30 to 5:30 get every weekend off get 3 weeks a year starting in July and have 2.5 half weeks left, we take long weekends and stats ( bank holidays) together. Christmas the office Closed but we could make up the hours from september - April from april to September we can bank hours and get Friday afternoon off. which is normally everyone in the office except 5 people who can't because their in support, reception etc.
If your lucky enough to get a job where you are friends with the staff and its in career you enjoy work isn't always a chore.
Other immigrants I know
1 left England as Lawn mower repairer with a city council, got a job with a mining company maintaining the Equipment travelled to every part of the world with deep mines, is now a manager on 70,000+ living in Calgary having great fun, with his ATV's RV, his wife learnt to be a massage therapist and has her own business..
Another started as a forest Manager in UK is now VP of a software company. After leaving to work in Vancouver can back to Winnipeg as it was to crowded and wet in BC.
Another left the Army became a tech doc write,r owns two arces which he has his "Goode Life" lot his wife is a christian youth movement leader and they are very happy with their church and friends amd their kids.
With 5 weeks holiday in the UK where do you go?
Looking for Sun Sea Scenery. it on your doorstep every weekend here. If you want it to be, that is.
Feb 2nd 2005, 11:36 am
#37
Lotus-eater
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Cascadian Autonomous Elysian Region
Posts: 5,069
Re: What to do !?!
If you hate rain west coast, particularly Vancouver may be out for you. Van gets 30% more rain than sunny Manchester UK but 50% more sun. Lots of sea fog mist and rain or 99 different types, but man, when the mists clear and the sun comes out, it's beautiful. Lowest number of frosty days in Canada. Beaches, moutians, provincial and local parks, city and coast, ski-ing, boating, Van Island a hop away, Seattle weekends, blah blah. Diverse buzzing population, loads to see and do, good link in with the tourist business so lots of leisure stuff. But, horrendous real estate prices compared to rest of Canada apart from maybe Toronto.
My advice would be to research, research, research, then get more advice/input and pay a visit. Anyone not visiting previously armed with loads of background would be mad to make a move. We did submit our application for PR without visiting, but that was due to budgeting limitations and the only risk was the application fee. Worked out since after two visits and after a few suffles of the deck regarding our plans, we are now 100% focused on where we want to be, when, and how. Consider any expentitures on visits as an investment to make sure it works out right for you.
There are negatives, like any change, but provided you go into it with your eyes open, there should be no unpleasant shocks down the line. Hence the advice, research, research, research.
Good luck, I posted something similar this week, if you search my posts you'll pick up on this somewhere, regarding deciding where to locate to and a few ideas of issues etc.
Rich.
My advice would be to research, research, research, then get more advice/input and pay a visit. Anyone not visiting previously armed with loads of background would be mad to make a move. We did submit our application for PR without visiting, but that was due to budgeting limitations and the only risk was the application fee. Worked out since after two visits and after a few suffles of the deck regarding our plans, we are now 100% focused on where we want to be, when, and how. Consider any expentitures on visits as an investment to make sure it works out right for you.
There are negatives, like any change, but provided you go into it with your eyes open, there should be no unpleasant shocks down the line. Hence the advice, research, research, research.
Good luck, I posted something similar this week, if you search my posts you'll pick up on this somewhere, regarding deciding where to locate to and a few ideas of issues etc.
Rich.
Feb 2nd 2005, 1:11 pm
#38
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 409
Re: What to do !?!
I have to clarify this two week's vacation everyone keeps mentioning. Two weeks is the barest minimum that employers have to give you starting out. It does go up as you work somewhere longer. Also, many employers start out giving more than that - maybe only 3 weeks (15 days), but still it's a bit more.
Also, Canada has a long weekend almost every month - February, March (depending on the timing of Easter) and June are the only months without one. I found it very difficult to adjust to the miniscule number of bank holidays in England, and the fact they were all scrunched up together in May, August and December.
Also, Canada has a long weekend almost every month - February, March (depending on the timing of Easter) and June are the only months without one. I found it very difficult to adjust to the miniscule number of bank holidays in England, and the fact they were all scrunched up together in May, August and December.
Feb 2nd 2005, 1:17 pm
#39
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by AnyaT
I have to clarify this two week's vacation everyone keeps mentioning. Two weeks is the barest minimum that employers have to give you starting out.
If you take vacation shortly after starting work there, there will not be enough money in the account to pay you over your vacation period, so although technically you can take the two weeks vacation...you might have trouble paying the bills that month!
Another bad effect of this is when you finaly go up to 3 weeks or 4 weeks vacation, they have to take more money out of your acount to cover the longer vacation period, so your weekly take home pay actually goes down!
Feb 2nd 2005, 1:28 pm
#40
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Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 409
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by iaink
Still to be fair its relatively uncommon to start onmore than 10 days, and in many cases this works by employers setting up a holiday pay account that takes ~4% from each pay check as holiday pay, and then pays this money out when you take vacation.
If you take vacation shortly after starting work there, there will not be enough money in the account to pay you over your vacation period, so although technically you can take the two weeks vacation...you might have trouble paying the bills that month!
Another bad effect of this is when you finaly go up to 3 weeks or 4 weeks vacation, they have to take more money out of your acount to cover the longer vacation period, so your weekly take home pay actually goes down!
If you take vacation shortly after starting work there, there will not be enough money in the account to pay you over your vacation period, so although technically you can take the two weeks vacation...you might have trouble paying the bills that month!
Another bad effect of this is when you finaly go up to 3 weeks or 4 weeks vacation, they have to take more money out of your acount to cover the longer vacation period, so your weekly take home pay actually goes down!
Feb 2nd 2005, 1:41 pm
#41
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by AnyaT
I have never heard of this happening. What does happen is that employers have to give you 4% on top of your regular salary if you don't receive vacation time (ie, if you are temping or in a contract job witout benefits). Nowhere have I ever heard of an employer deducting 4% from your regular salary and only giving it back when you take time off. Frankly, that doesn't even sound legal to me!
Heres the info on the HRDC site.
http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.a...3.shtml&hs=lxn
Feb 2nd 2005, 1:47 pm
#42
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 371
Re: What to do !?!
Originally Posted by AnyaT
I have never heard of this happening. What does happen is that employers have to give you 4% on top of your regular salary if you don't receive vacation time (ie, if you are temping or in a contract job witout benefits). Nowhere have I ever heard of an employer deducting 4% from your regular salary and only giving it back when you take time off. Frankly, that doesn't even sound legal to me!
On the number of days holiday, in the UK I had 28, over here I have 21. But there is an additional Bank Holiday over here, plus my company doesn't expect you to take any of your time for Christmas. I got the 21 because I transferred, but I don't know if the christmas part of it is country wide or employer specific. So really I had 4 extra days on top of my 21 if you count the 3 extra at christmas plus the extra bank holiday.
