Vancouver vs Calgary
#16
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 26
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
Funnily enough I've made more friends quicker here in Calgary than in Toronto. In Toronto you would definitely be "discriminated against" less but quite honestly I don't really know if you really are being discriminated against or if it's just redneck ignorance. I'm not excusing it in any way by the way because my wife (who is also latin) tends to get ignored or get stuck in bureacracy in a way that I don't but on the other hand I'm as white as you can possibly get (milk lol) and I get treated like I'm a knownuff too just because I'm not Canadian. On the other hand I find a total lack of connection to some of my new Calgarian "friends". It's like it takes a half hour of awkwardness to start a conversation and many of the conversations seem to be about "look at me I just bought a nice new truck" or "look at me my furniture is better than yours" etc. That said, they are just fine to work with, working conditions in Canada I have always found to be much better than in the UK, less politics and less backstabbing by far (not saying there's none, just less). But then again, my mate from my home town has the exact opposite experience.
Where I will agree 100% is that there's a very strong streak among especially the uneducated (who I would refer to as redneck hillbillies) who just don't like anyone coming here and "taking their jobs". Their ire is not only reserved for foreigners but also for fellow Canucks.
If you don't have any friends, I suggest you join a couple of clubs. I'm not talking about the gym. Maybe something like a kung fu class or maybe a continuing education course or something, where you will end up talking to people eventually. I've found Canadians much easier to relate to (in fact you can't shut them up - especially the one guy who comes to my desk at work every day and blabbers on and on lol) when you have something in common with them.
My 2p/2c.
Where I will agree 100% is that there's a very strong streak among especially the uneducated (who I would refer to as redneck hillbillies) who just don't like anyone coming here and "taking their jobs". Their ire is not only reserved for foreigners but also for fellow Canucks.
If you don't have any friends, I suggest you join a couple of clubs. I'm not talking about the gym. Maybe something like a kung fu class or maybe a continuing education course or something, where you will end up talking to people eventually. I've found Canadians much easier to relate to (in fact you can't shut them up - especially the one guy who comes to my desk at work every day and blabbers on and on lol) when you have something in common with them.
My 2p/2c.
bsmith
Before I start, let me just say, this post will not go down well with Edmontonians - but it's not meant for them. I hope this thread will be read by people weighing up the pros and cons of the various Canadian cities. A recce is just a snapshot and warts-and-all, unbiased info (not just sugar-coated tourist rubbish) is hard to come by. Consequently, this piece may seem overly negative, but my intention here is not to anger or antagonize, but merely to redress the balance. Believe it or not I've gone easy, I've left out personal stuff that's happened, some of which would not make for comfortable reading on a forum such as this. (You can review crime stats etc. elsewhere)
So let's cut right to the chase, Edmonton is not the "world class" metropolis it's marketing people would have you believe. It's a blue collar city that rises and falls on the strength of it's economy - people relocate here from overseas and from other provinces for the work and for that alone. People looking for the whole "quality of life" thing, would be advised to seek it elsewhere. The city has a lamentable infrastructure, horrible architecture and doesn't show any sign of getting better any time soon.
The cities "downtown" area is a bit of a joke. It has none of the vibrancy or energy you would expect in a city this size. Very few pedestrianised areas or natural outdoor gathering places. There is also a very serious panhandling and aggressive begging problem, (which sometimes escalates into actual violence and recently death), although this is a problem not just restricted to the downtown area. Once out of the city centre Edmonton is your average mixture of generic condo blocks (flats), older "character" homes, strip-malls and the ubiquitous avenue after avenue of newly built McMansions. Property in Edmonton is relatively expensive by Canadian standards.
On the culture and entertainment front Edmonton is mediocre at best. There's stuff out there, but it's all pretty average and fairly generic, cinemas, clubs, galleries etc. Edmonton sells it's self as Canada's year round "Festival City", although most of these "festivals" are again pretty generic and mainly bunched together during the short Summer months. The better ones tend to be smaller and consequently sell out fast making tickets hard to come by. Eating out here is never a great experience, the restaurants are on the whole terrible - indifferent service and poor quality food.
Edmonton's "Crown Jewel" is it's "River Valley". The North Saskatchewan river valley effectively cuts Edmonton in two diagonally and provides some welcome greenery (during the summer) and a few miles of cycle trails. Unfortunately it also provides cover for an unofficial shanty town of tents and shacks housing many of the towns bums and vagrants during the Spring through to Autumn. Consequently, Edmontonians consider the river valley a no-go-area after dusk which is a shame.
Everyone mentions the driving, I confess, I do not drive. That said, I have witnessed more driving accidents and near misses in one year in Edmonton than in the rest of my 40+ years put together. No exaggeration. Yes, some of these were just winter prangs, but the majority were just caused by careless driving on ice-free roads. Crossing a busy intersection with one hand on the wheel while talking on your cell phone appears to be compulsory here. And man, do Edmontonians love the horn (insert puerile joke here).
The people of Edmonton are for the most part very nice. They are on the whole polite and welcoming - though I suspect being white has helped me out on that front. I'm pretty shocked at how quickly many (Caucasian) Edmontonians, regardless of age or background, can turn any discussion on the cause of Edmonton's woes in to an opportunity to be blatantly racist about either Natives Americas, Blacks or various "Asian" groups . (That said, these views may appeal to the "Daily Mail" type expat!) Canadians I've got to know from other parts of the country don't seem to fall back on these tired old clichés so often.
There also seems be a strange preoccupation bordering on an obsession with Calgary. Edmontonions generally seem to hate the place with a passion, whilst at the same time, desperately aspiring to be more like it. The fact that Calgary appears to be many Edmontonian's only yard-stick by which to judge it's own city gives some insight into the depth and breadth of the average Edmontonian's world view. Unfortunately, it doesn't help that Calgary is indeed a more appealing city in most respects, and at least has some character and sense of it's own identity.
Overall, after spending a year in Edmonton, my advice to anyone planning on making Canada their home would be to consider other cities before even looking at Edmonton. You don't get that whole "quality of life" thing here, far from it. I freely admit, we came here for the work and for that alone, and when the time is right we will be getting the hell out of here. I hope for the sake of the city and it's people the economy stays strong, Edmonton now isn't great, Edmonton during any kind of protracted slump doesn't bare thinking about.
So let's cut right to the chase, Edmonton is not the "world class" metropolis it's marketing people would have you believe. It's a blue collar city that rises and falls on the strength of it's economy - people relocate here from overseas and from other provinces for the work and for that alone. People looking for the whole "quality of life" thing, would be advised to seek it elsewhere. The city has a lamentable infrastructure, horrible architecture and doesn't show any sign of getting better any time soon.
The cities "downtown" area is a bit of a joke. It has none of the vibrancy or energy you would expect in a city this size. Very few pedestrianised areas or natural outdoor gathering places. There is also a very serious panhandling and aggressive begging problem, (which sometimes escalates into actual violence and recently death), although this is a problem not just restricted to the downtown area. Once out of the city centre Edmonton is your average mixture of generic condo blocks (flats), older "character" homes, strip-malls and the ubiquitous avenue after avenue of newly built McMansions. Property in Edmonton is relatively expensive by Canadian standards.
On the culture and entertainment front Edmonton is mediocre at best. There's stuff out there, but it's all pretty average and fairly generic, cinemas, clubs, galleries etc. Edmonton sells it's self as Canada's year round "Festival City", although most of these "festivals" are again pretty generic and mainly bunched together during the short Summer months. The better ones tend to be smaller and consequently sell out fast making tickets hard to come by. Eating out here is never a great experience, the restaurants are on the whole terrible - indifferent service and poor quality food.
Edmonton's "Crown Jewel" is it's "River Valley". The North Saskatchewan river valley effectively cuts Edmonton in two diagonally and provides some welcome greenery (during the summer) and a few miles of cycle trails. Unfortunately it also provides cover for an unofficial shanty town of tents and shacks housing many of the towns bums and vagrants during the Spring through to Autumn. Consequently, Edmontonians consider the river valley a no-go-area after dusk which is a shame.
Everyone mentions the driving, I confess, I do not drive. That said, I have witnessed more driving accidents and near misses in one year in Edmonton than in the rest of my 40+ years put together. No exaggeration. Yes, some of these were just winter prangs, but the majority were just caused by careless driving on ice-free roads. Crossing a busy intersection with one hand on the wheel while talking on your cell phone appears to be compulsory here. And man, do Edmontonians love the horn (insert puerile joke here).
The people of Edmonton are for the most part very nice. They are on the whole polite and welcoming - though I suspect being white has helped me out on that front. I'm pretty shocked at how quickly many (Caucasian) Edmontonians, regardless of age or background, can turn any discussion on the cause of Edmonton's woes in to an opportunity to be blatantly racist about either Natives Americas, Blacks or various "Asian" groups . (That said, these views may appeal to the "Daily Mail" type expat!) Canadians I've got to know from other parts of the country don't seem to fall back on these tired old clichés so often.
There also seems be a strange preoccupation bordering on an obsession with Calgary. Edmontonions generally seem to hate the place with a passion, whilst at the same time, desperately aspiring to be more like it. The fact that Calgary appears to be many Edmontonian's only yard-stick by which to judge it's own city gives some insight into the depth and breadth of the average Edmontonian's world view. Unfortunately, it doesn't help that Calgary is indeed a more appealing city in most respects, and at least has some character and sense of it's own identity.
Overall, after spending a year in Edmonton, my advice to anyone planning on making Canada their home would be to consider other cities before even looking at Edmonton. You don't get that whole "quality of life" thing here, far from it. I freely admit, we came here for the work and for that alone, and when the time is right we will be getting the hell out of here. I hope for the sake of the city and it's people the economy stays strong, Edmonton now isn't great, Edmonton during any kind of protracted slump doesn't bare thinking about.
However, I think Calgary's infrastructure is pretty decent if compared to Vancouver. I have been in Vancouver twice driving my own car, and I found the infrastructure a bit old. There is more a "new city" feeling in Calgary for sure.
For driving behaviour, I disagree too, but it does not help coming from a country where the trafic and driving behaviour is not that good . I found people in Calgary are good drivers in general. I do not feel that safe driving in Vancouver though.
Regarding your post, I agree talking with calgarians is generally in the superficial side. I try to connect but as you say there is awkwardness to start a conversation and keep it flowing. Also agree with your point: they are pretty easy people to work with, even in a blue collar trade like the one I work, although sometimes you find not so great people.
Thanks for your post. I found it very similar to my experience.
#17
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Joined: May 2001
Location: Now in West London, but one day soon in Vancouver.....!
Posts: 448
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
hi nelju!
just read your postings and very sad they are as well.
to tell you the truth, racist scum are everywhere.
this is the reason why i ahve just posted another message to someone on here who is giving so-called funny nicknames to a city in the uk just because a lot of asians live there.
what i cant figure out is, when the white people took over all those countries in the world...india, egypt, africa, etc...the majority of the peoples there welcomed the whites with open arms, even though their countries were later raped and plundered by them.
how do you think the west has become so powerful? through the rape and plunder of all the worlds countries, thats how.
anyway, getting back to your point about racism -- you'll find it in toronto for sure, as i lived there and saw it myself.
and alberta is well-known as the hotbed of racism in canada! you shouldnt be there, man!
you know yourself in your heart that you are definitely better than those racist scum who make your life miserable, so why put up with them?
either tell them to their damn faces when the make any comments, or just get the hell out of that place.
vancouver would be far better for you. there are more, shall we say, coloureds there, and fewer palefaces!
but beware, sometimes you may get discriminated by people of other races too! its damn human nature....you know the story about a bunch of white kids in a class, where 2 of them had ginger hair and the rest were blondish?
well, the ginger haired kids were always amde fun of, cos they had funny hair!
work that out!
just read your postings and very sad they are as well.
to tell you the truth, racist scum are everywhere.
this is the reason why i ahve just posted another message to someone on here who is giving so-called funny nicknames to a city in the uk just because a lot of asians live there.
what i cant figure out is, when the white people took over all those countries in the world...india, egypt, africa, etc...the majority of the peoples there welcomed the whites with open arms, even though their countries were later raped and plundered by them.
how do you think the west has become so powerful? through the rape and plunder of all the worlds countries, thats how.
anyway, getting back to your point about racism -- you'll find it in toronto for sure, as i lived there and saw it myself.
and alberta is well-known as the hotbed of racism in canada! you shouldnt be there, man!
you know yourself in your heart that you are definitely better than those racist scum who make your life miserable, so why put up with them?
either tell them to their damn faces when the make any comments, or just get the hell out of that place.
vancouver would be far better for you. there are more, shall we say, coloureds there, and fewer palefaces!
but beware, sometimes you may get discriminated by people of other races too! its damn human nature....you know the story about a bunch of white kids in a class, where 2 of them had ginger hair and the rest were blondish?
well, the ginger haired kids were always amde fun of, cos they had funny hair!
work that out!
After 5 years living in Calgary I feel sick and not motivated. This place is so boring and dull. No friends. I have a decent salary in a job I hate, but I realized money is not everything. This is a ghost city where people seems to hide inside their houses, and just go outside to work or study. Downtown is dead after 7 pm, so besides going to the mall there is not much to do on here. Everything is expensive. People is ultra boring and closed minded. It does not help I am a visible minority and have an accent. Almost everyday and everywhere I got those looks and attitudes like I am an alien or something like that. All of my coworkers are white and sometimes they are talking bad things about blacks, natives and minorities. They dont tell things directly to me, but I guess in my back they have some funny conversations. Normally, it is the people from Alberta that I dont like. I have met some canadians from other places and they seem way nicer than here. I am hispanic by the way. This place deserves redneck city reputation. I was surprised beyond the words by neo nazi parades being allowed in the city.
I could go for hours writing about Calgary. The only good thing about the city is being a sunny place. Nothing else. The point is I am super depressed here. My health is being affected.
I want to give a last try to Canada by going to Vancouver. I have been to the city three times and really like the scenery, street life, and big city feeling (at least for me). Another good point is many visible minorities in the place. I think I would feel less isolated than here. I know the place is expensive, the economy is not that good, and have some sketchy areas but I like it in general. The thing I do not really like is the gloomy weather in winter, but I want to try and see how bad really is.
Can you elaborate in some others bad aspects of Vancouver? I want to be realist and grounded in my expectations. I would really appreciate some advise, tips, areas to avoid in Vancouver, and recommended places to rent. By the way, I have liked the few british I have met in Calgary. You seem to be a bunch of educated, well mannered, and cultured people. I normally like to talk to europeans because you can talk to them about interesting subjects. I cannot avoid falling asleep when talking to canadians . Sorry for my rant, but I need to express my feelings. Not having a good time here. Of course, it is just my experience.
I could go for hours writing about Calgary. The only good thing about the city is being a sunny place. Nothing else. The point is I am super depressed here. My health is being affected.
I want to give a last try to Canada by going to Vancouver. I have been to the city three times and really like the scenery, street life, and big city feeling (at least for me). Another good point is many visible minorities in the place. I think I would feel less isolated than here. I know the place is expensive, the economy is not that good, and have some sketchy areas but I like it in general. The thing I do not really like is the gloomy weather in winter, but I want to try and see how bad really is.
Can you elaborate in some others bad aspects of Vancouver? I want to be realist and grounded in my expectations. I would really appreciate some advise, tips, areas to avoid in Vancouver, and recommended places to rent. By the way, I have liked the few british I have met in Calgary. You seem to be a bunch of educated, well mannered, and cultured people. I normally like to talk to europeans because you can talk to them about interesting subjects. I cannot avoid falling asleep when talking to canadians . Sorry for my rant, but I need to express my feelings. Not having a good time here. Of course, it is just my experience.
#18
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
hi nelju!
just read your postings and very sad they are as well.
to tell you the truth, racist scum are everywhere.
this is the reason why i ahve just posted another message to someone on here who is giving so-called funny nicknames to a city in the uk just because a lot of asians live there.
what i cant figure out is, when the white people took over all those countries in the world...india, egypt, africa, etc...the majority of the peoples there welcomed the whites with open arms, even though their countries were later raped and plundered by them.
how do you think the west has become so powerful? through the rape and plunder of all the worlds countries, thats how.
anyway, getting back to your point about racism -- you'll find it in toronto for sure, as i lived there and saw it myself.
and alberta is well-known as the hotbed of racism in canada! you shouldnt be there, man!
you know yourself in your heart that you are definitely better than those racist scum who make your life miserable, so why put up with them?
either tell them to their damn faces when the make any comments, or just get the hell out of that place.
vancouver would be far better for you. there are more, shall we say, coloureds there, and fewer palefaces!
but beware, sometimes you may get discriminated by people of other races too! its damn human nature....you know the story about a bunch of white kids in a class, where 2 of them had ginger hair and the rest were blondish?
well, the ginger haired kids were always amde fun of, cos they had funny hair!
work that out!
just read your postings and very sad they are as well.
to tell you the truth, racist scum are everywhere.
this is the reason why i ahve just posted another message to someone on here who is giving so-called funny nicknames to a city in the uk just because a lot of asians live there.
what i cant figure out is, when the white people took over all those countries in the world...india, egypt, africa, etc...the majority of the peoples there welcomed the whites with open arms, even though their countries were later raped and plundered by them.
how do you think the west has become so powerful? through the rape and plunder of all the worlds countries, thats how.
anyway, getting back to your point about racism -- you'll find it in toronto for sure, as i lived there and saw it myself.
and alberta is well-known as the hotbed of racism in canada! you shouldnt be there, man!
you know yourself in your heart that you are definitely better than those racist scum who make your life miserable, so why put up with them?
either tell them to their damn faces when the make any comments, or just get the hell out of that place.
vancouver would be far better for you. there are more, shall we say, coloureds there, and fewer palefaces!
but beware, sometimes you may get discriminated by people of other races too! its damn human nature....you know the story about a bunch of white kids in a class, where 2 of them had ginger hair and the rest were blondish?
well, the ginger haired kids were always amde fun of, cos they had funny hair!
work that out!
#19
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
I'm not moderating here but I find the use of the terms 'coloureds" and "palefaces" to be ignorant at best and racist more likely. There's no need for it on here. If you want to lecture other people on bigotry and racism you better realize the use of terms like those are extremely offensive and make you look like an uneducated hypocrite.
#21
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Joined: May 2001
Location: Now in West London, but one day soon in Vancouver.....!
Posts: 448
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
hang on now.....those are only, as you would say, terms of endearment!
some of my best friends are white.....im not racist or bigoted!
calm down now....if you cant take serious discussion, then you shouldnt be on here, mate!
some of my best friends are white.....im not racist or bigoted!
calm down now....if you cant take serious discussion, then you shouldnt be on here, mate!
I'm not moderating here but I find the use of the terms 'coloureds" and "palefaces" to be ignorant at best and racist more likely. There's no need for it on here. If you want to lecture other people on bigotry and racism you better realize the use of terms like those are extremely offensive and make you look like an uneducated hypocrite.
#22
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Joined: May 2001
Location: Now in West London, but one day soon in Vancouver.....!
Posts: 448
#23
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
Evidence please. I know that posters on here believe the whole of Alberta to be redneck central, butI have never heard that Alberta is deemed to be the hotbed of racism in Canada.
#24
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
Yep. The only folk we don't like are the French speaking ones East of Ontario who steal our oil money. There is plenty of diversity in Alberta, especially in the cities.
#25
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
Serious discussion? You're not engaging in serious debate, rather it's a lot of self-rightous posturing while making the same offensive comments you're complaining about. A bit of advice, if you're going to chastise other posters on here make sure you're not making the same ignorant mistakes, you tend to lose all credibility otherwise.
#26
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 26
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
Almost Canadian
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...te-crimes.html
Police reported hate crimes per capita were higher in Calgary in 2006 and 2007. It was number one of biggest metropolitan centers in Canada. In 2008 Vancouver had the highest rate of hate crimes per capita. Not much better, but hate crimes in 2008 due to ethnicity and race were lower in Vancouver ( 43.6% of total), than Calgary ( 75.4% of total). Among the biggest cities of Canada Montreal has the lowest hate crime per capita.
2006
2007
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...0513c1-eng.htm
2008
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../tbl03-eng.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...0614b2-eng.htm
Evidence please. I know that posters on here believe the whole of Alberta to be redneck central, butI have never heard that Alberta is deemed to be the hotbed of racism in Canada.
Calgary has the highest rate of hate-motivated crime in the country, according to a new study released by Statistics Canada.
In 2006, 92 hate crimes were reported in Calgary — about nine incidents for every 100,000 people in the city, or three times higher than the national average of three per 100,000, said the agency Monday.
Hate crimes per 100,000 population
Calgary 9.1
Kingston, Ont. 8.5
Ottawa 6.6
London, Ont. 5.9
Toronto 5.5
Source: Statistics Canada
Calgary was one of five cities that reported data higher than the national average. The other four cities were all in Ontario.
In 2006, 92 hate crimes were reported in Calgary — about nine incidents for every 100,000 people in the city, or three times higher than the national average of three per 100,000, said the agency Monday.
Hate crimes per 100,000 population
Calgary 9.1
Kingston, Ont. 8.5
Ottawa 6.6
London, Ont. 5.9
Toronto 5.5
Source: Statistics Canada
Calgary was one of five cities that reported data higher than the national average. The other four cities were all in Ontario.
Police reported hate crimes per capita were higher in Calgary in 2006 and 2007. It was number one of biggest metropolitan centers in Canada. In 2008 Vancouver had the highest rate of hate crimes per capita. Not much better, but hate crimes in 2008 due to ethnicity and race were lower in Vancouver ( 43.6% of total), than Calgary ( 75.4% of total). Among the biggest cities of Canada Montreal has the lowest hate crime per capita.
2006
2007
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...0513c1-eng.htm
2008
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../tbl03-eng.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...0614b2-eng.htm
Last edited by Nelju; May 15th 2011 at 10:07 pm.
#29
Re: Vancouver vs Calgary
However I don't think people in Calgary are particularly racist, I remember there was a neo-nazi who was handing out pamphlets on Prince's Island not long after Canada Day a couple of years back and he got some serious flak from people in the park.
I've got to say I doubt you're going to solve that problem by moving to BC, yes there are lots of Chinese and Indians there, but not hispanics. I have a friend who is Métis and she was born and grew up in BC and she got all sorts of racist crap growing up in the Vancouver area. Plus the Americans (CBP) do crackdowns on the ferries and they tend to focus on hispanics so if anything I think you'd get more hassle.
Bear in mind the HQ of the Aryan Nation was in Coeur D'Alene, it's about the same distance from Vancouver and Calgary.
Have you personally had hassle going into bars? I got the impression it was black people who get most of the crap.