Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

Hi there,
As you are all aware we are dead set on going to Calgary I have a job offer and everything.
But I have had a seed placed in my head, if I was to get a job in Vancouver (a possibility) I would then have a straight choice.

What would all you people out there do I would love all the pro's & Cons of both places,
I know the basic one about the house prices etc. but would love to know the main difference in living standards, cosys, qualities etc.

Dont wait for your ship to come in ! Swim out and meet the bloody thing :)

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

You'll fall in love with Vancouver but in Calgary will be able to afford to live.

Alberta has another very big advantage over BC, and that is Alberta has lower taxes. Alberta has no provincial sales tax, and has lower income taxes. Calgary has reasonable property taxes as well. If you were to purchase a car, for say $50,000, you would only pay the federal 7% GST (goods and services tax) in Alberta, but in B.C. you would also have to pay the 7.5% pst (provincial sales tax). That's an additional $3,750 in tax! This example is applicable to most items that you buy.

In Calgary, there is no requirement to have your vehicles "smogged" (i.e. emissions checked and certified at a garage), whereas in Vancouver you do.

This is a PRO ?

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

I have lived in both, Vancouver is a much nicer place. It is easy living in Calgary but it is very flat and boring,and a long drive to get to anywhere. Van has many places to go and see( plus mountains and ocean to boot). Check both and decide.

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

There are also many things that are bad about Vancouver, where should we start?

Yes, it's a PRO. Calgary doesn't have the air pollution problem (except when they have an inversion) that Vancouver has. This saves you time and money.

Based on a reference that I just found, maybe you shouldn't go to Vancouver due to the crime rate:

Annual crime rates per 100,000 people
Crime Category Calgary, Canada Vancouver, Canada
Robberies 96 412
Rapes 52 83
Homicides 2 5
Aggravated Assaults 532 815
Motor Vehicle Thefts 661 1244
Crime Lab Index 116 240


http://www.homefair.com/homefair/ser...toCity=BCF0001

Says the data is from 2001, its 2004 now, try and get some current figures.

Wow, after checking out Victoria, looks like one of the most dangerous places in Canada. What a load of crap.

Those are the most current figures available comparing US and Canadian cities. Just because a report is not what someone wants to see, doesn't mean that it is false. I don't believe the source of those figures had any agenda against Victoria, Vancouver or BC. I do know that Vancouver has far more than an average (for Canada) number of break-ins.

If you have a reference that is more up-to-date, please post it.

Crime rates by census metropolitan area (2002):
 

Yes, Victoria does have a very high crime rate (for Canada), but it’s not as bad as Vancouver. Look at the last chart:

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030724/d030724a.htm

Vancouver 2nd worst city in North America for property crime!

http://www.boardoftrade.com/vbot_page.asp?pageid=1065

It's shocking how bad Saskatchewan is for crime. :eek:
I'm also surprised by how good Ontario (especially Toronto) and Quebec came out.

More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

Isn't car insurance more expensive in Calgary ? It seems to be a major expense for newcomer given that most European driving licenses are not valid in Canada.
What about heating costs, winter clothing costs, + cost of "isolation" i.e. no major city nearby like Seattle or more expensive flights to Europe / US out of Calgary ?
I also noticed (without actually being in Canada yet !) that it seems harder to find high quality food (or specialty food) in Calgary.
BTW, it seems that personal income taxes are lower in BC for incomes below CAD 64,500 ( 6.05 to 9.15% in BC rather than 10% in AB )

Re: More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

Regarding car insurance, it depends on the insurer (in Alberta). I found (in my case) that the cost was about the same comparing High River (just south of Calgary) with BC.

For Calgary, the costs associated with having a cold winter would be higher than Vancouver. The costs of having rainy, damp weather is much higher for Vancouver than Calgary. People in Vancouver have been having a problem with their condos leaking, causing problems with mildew. Read more about it:

http://realtytimes.com/rtnews/rtcpag...leakycondo.htm

The overall cost of living is much lower in Calgary than in Vancouver.

The months and months of rainy, overcast weather in Vancouver makes some people depressed.

I never feel "isolated" in Calgary. Greater Calgary now has a population in excess of 1 million. Perhaps Seattle is "isolated" because it is too far away from Calgary and all that it has to offer. Calgary has the third busiest airport in Canada. :p

http://www.cityguide.travel-guides.c...ThereByAir.asp

I have no reason to think that flying out of Calgary is more expensive than flying out of Vancouver to go to Europe - but the reverse may be true since Calgary is closer.

Some of my favorite restaurants are in Calgary. Vancouver is more cosmopolitan, so it would likely have a bigger variety of ethnic food. Are you big into curry?;)

If you did some research for yourself, you would see that Statistics Canada is still analyzing results from the 2001 Census. If you have more up-to-date reports, then feel free to post them.

Re: More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

Car insurance is much more expensive for higher-risk groups in Calgary because it is very nearly completely deregulated. New immigrants are one of those supposed high-risk groups, and are price-gouged, but that is common accross Canada. Car insurance for new immigrants is significantly cheaper in British Columbia because insurance in British Columbia is government run.

For low-risks, Alberta is often cheaper for car insurance, since low risks somewhat subsidise high risks in BC. As an immigrant however, it will be many many years before you become a low risk. You are basically starting out all over again as though you were 17 with your first car.

Flights are significantly more expensive from Calgary than other centres, including Vancouver. Generally it is cheaper to get a flight from Vancouver to the UK than Calgary to the UK.

My family is spread over the UK and the US. If my wife wanted to go and visit her mum next week in North Carolina, she would be hard pushed to get much change out of $3,000 from Calgary. So we plan ahead. Months and months ahead. By planning ahead we can often get to the UK or North Carolina for about $1,000 each. My mother continually complains about how expensive it is to visit me from England; as she points out, she could go to LA for a third of the price, or San Fransisco for half the price.

It can be a challenge to get high quality food in Calgary. I have an ongoing battle to find a source of decent English stilton. The stuff sold in the grocery stores is absolute garbage. But that's my particular issue... The staples are all there, but fresh produce is second rate, on the whole, and third rate if out of season. It is also expensive. I don't know how Vancouver compares on this; I am comparing with what I was used to in the UK. There is an exception though: the wild pacific salmon is to die for and extremely cheap.

Income taxes are lower in BC for very low income people. But it doesn't take much income to see some tax advantage in Alberta. On the whole it is fair to say that Alberta has a tax advantage over BC, and that tax advantage becomes greater the more you make.

Just to compare, the cost (Canadian $) of flying to Heathrow for two people with Air Canada (not that I recommend AC):

Depart June 20/04 Return June 27/04:

From Calgary: $2,928

From Vancouver: $ 2,859

In this example, Vancouver was a tad less costly than Calgary. Other carriers may be cheaper.

I'll bet that it's hard to get "stilton" in Calgary. Few in Calgary would even know what it is.

There are only 3 centers in Canada that get significant immigration: Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Alberta is only starting to attract immigrants. Alberta's population is growing because of migration from other parts of Canada, and due to "natural" population growth. Ergo, if you are looking for something exotic, it may or may not be available in Calgary because the city doesn't have a high population of various ethnic groups. I have lived all over North America, and have found the food available in Calgary to be very good in general - but then again, I don't like moldy cheese.;)

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

Dear D&C..

There are some Calgary and Vancouver specific sites you might like to check out ... and see if they have any suggestions :)


Calgary
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Calgaryimmigrants/


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/immigrationuktocalgary/

& Vancouver
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/van-immi/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brits2Vancouver/

All the best

Clare

What do you think the original European poster was referring to as "specialty food?" Grits? Corn bread? Fried chicken? Cheeseburgers? Yes, we can get all of these in ample quantity and quality in Calgary. Although I am still trying to find someone who sells Hebrew National hot dogs before barbeque season starts (anyone know an Alberta retailer that does?).

The bottom line is that the availability of specialty food in Calgary is pitiful, even when compared to other significant Canadian towns. What is available is not always of good quality but is nearly always overpriced.

Well I'll be damned. That must be busy. I'll bet it's got a Tim Horton's and everything. Calgary's airport, it's brown airport, with brown walls, and brown seats, and brown carpets, and ridiculous stetson wearing plane greaters (who fortunately wear red outfits, not brown ones). Who'd have thought it could be the third busiest in Canada! And incredibly well connected to the world, with non-stop flights to Pheonix Arizona. No, I don't require a lecture on the airport renovations, I pass through that tinpot garden shed often enough to see the progress firsthand.

The simple truth is that for a European used to the availability of flights between major cities for under $100, Calgary is going to feel isolated. You can't get much change out of $2,000 to get from Calgary to anywhere serious. Pheonix Arizona aside.

Grits? Corn bread? Fried chicken? Cheese burgers? You forgot about crawdads. I think those foods may be more popular with the rest of your family living in the US, because they’re southern US (Ozark Mountains?) dishes, not western Canadian. Items on the menu from restaurants in Calgary like Joey’s Tomato, Boston Pizza, Swiss Chalet and scores of others, from French to Japanese can be very good:
http://www.visitor.calgary.ab.ca/travel/dining.html

The quality of produce in Calgary isn't as bad as you purport, and many bakeries are very good.

I hate to say it, but British cuisine is not too popular in North America; French, Italian, Greek, Thai, Chinese among others are much more popular. You see, based on the flavor of British food, many of us in North America figure that British cuisine is a major reason why people want to leave the UK. We don’t expect anyone to crave for the stuff after they arrive. You want Hebrew National hot dogs? No problem, Costco carries that brand. Hebrew National hot dogs are as chewy as a soft rubber ball. I know, I recently made the mistake of buying some. Yet you like them, but complain about Canadian food? Like they say, there is no accounting for taste.

Actually, I checked flights from Calgary to Vancouver and Toronto with WestJet. The flight to (return included) Vancouver cost $131.12, and the flight to Toronto cost $179.27 – taxes and fees included. With "Tango" it's $424.11 (return) to go to San Francisco (including all taxes and fees). What were you saying about not being able to get much change out of $2,000 to fly anywhere serious? By the way, Calgary International is an airport, not a museum. The place looks okay to me (it's not brown all over):

http://www.calgaryairport.com/author...sandphotos.cfm

If you have to hold your nose up and insult the citizens of the country that you have chosen to impose yourself upon, at least get your facts straight. Try to keep the baloney to a minimum – even if it is your favorite food.

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

Thanks Clare,
I am already a member of the Calgary ones tremendous source of info for us just waiting, I will have a look at the Vancouver ones.
Cheers and thanks again :)


P.S
I didn't mean to open such a can of worms. :scared:

Calgary and Calgarians have a beauty all of their own, and it is not defined by the availability of specialty foods or the quality of its airport.

Re: More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

for all your cheese needs in Calgary, try the Janice Beaton shop on 17th Ave, otherwise there is a very good cheese shop in the Crossroads market off Blackfoot Trail. there's also the British Pantry in the NW (Crowfoot and Northland Dr) that sells cheese. some of the Healthfood shops/organic shops have interesting cheeses too, I once found some Manchego in one of these in Kensington.

you can find all kinds of food here but it can be hard work. I find that Superstore sells a few British products, including chocolate, M and S soup, sometimes tea etc


that's because people don't know what British cuisine is, they think it's all pies and fish and chips. the choice in British supermarkets is far superior and more varied to that in US and Canada, that's because consumers are more demanding. personally, i think north american cuisine is over-rated, although it is easy, bbq or deep fry. I haven't had a decent chinese meal in Canada so have given that up, but have found great Greek, Italian, Lebanese, Japanese, South American, Spanish, not-so-bad Indian, etc. plenty of variety

Re: More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

It looks like North America isn't the only area that would rather pass on British cuisine:

“The only restaurant in Paris serving traditional British cuisine is shutting its doors, because the French can't be tempted to eat the food.�

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1148225.stm

As far as the variety in grocery stores in Canada, if enough people ask for a particular item, a store will often bring it in. I have seen this occur over the years, especially under the influence of immigration from Hong Kong/China. Lots of vegetables can now be found in the stores to please the oriental taste. If you want an item, let the stores know about it.

Marks & Spencer used to have stores around Alberta, but people didn't care to buy what they had to offer, so the stores closed.

Re: More questions on Vancouver vs Calgary
 

Thanks Louisa. The wife of a colleague of mine recommended Crossroads Market and I did get a decent pot of Stilton there; but it's hard work getting over there. But as I'm in the NW I will definitely pay a visit to the British pantry.

I lived in Edmonton for 14 years, but visited Calgary and Vancouver quite a bit and have some family in both cities.

As a place to visit, Vancouver definitely has more to offer from the natural scenery to “cultureâ €?. In terms of living, I’d say Calgary wins hands down. I’d even say it has the highest quality of life of any major city in Canada. It’s clean, safe, relatively affordable and there is ample to do to keep you busy. Calgary also has the best economy of any major Canadian city, so the job prospects are better there compared to the rest of Canada, and especially Vancouver. Furthermore, I like Calgarians and think they generally have good heads on their shoulders; they’re not “activistsà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬? like Vancouverites.

If I had stayed in Canada, I probably would have moved to Calgary because it really is a nice city. But the Alberta isolation really got to me and I got bored. You can try to bring up cheap airline fares all you want, but Alberta is a very isolated place and you can’t drive for a few hours to somewhere significant. At least for me, the Rockies got boring after a while and I am more of the beach type.

Overall, I’d move to Calgary if I were you; I think Vancouver is overrated.

So overrated it was voted joint first with Vienna as the city with the best standard of living in the world.
:D

God....where the hell do they get those surveys from?

You guys make me laugh; if you think that Calgary is "very isolated", you need to live in Yellowknife, or Lewisporte for a year. Then you've have a clue of what you're talking about!!!:D

LOL! Agreed.

All relative. Compared to Toronto, London, NYC or Sampa, Calgary is a very, very isolated place. Give me those places any day.

I still don't see how Calgary can be "isolated" when it's the center of the Universe. ;)

What is Sampa? Are you referring to the South African Model Power Boating Association?:confused:

Loved the Toronto jibe! ;)

Sampa=Sao Paulo. As a well traveled man, I thought you'd know already.

Very Original......and you say you are in mexico? I reckon you are in a bedsit in Kitchener, since you keep going on about the place 24-7
:D

Am surprise you didn't call it Salvation Army Model Power Boating Association :rolleyes: You need to get out more geezer :lecture:

I mean for someone that thinks Calgary is the canine's testicles :confused: What would you be doing in Mexico, if you are there at all that is !

I never heard of "Sampa" before so I typed it into a search engine to see what would come up. Guess what came up? "South African Model Power Boating Assocation"! I kid you not. :p

I'm in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. We may have the world's best weather. Lived here for 9 years (since I retired) - but I travel around North America. Like I told you before, I was raised and educated in Waterloo and worked in Alberta. Do you know how close Waterloo is to Kitchener sunnyboy? ;)

By the way, I retired at the age of 40, so I'm not a "geezer" just yet thank you, but you may consider me your elder. :lecture:

As close as mexico is to brazil
:rolleyes: I don't need your biography here Mr Kitchener, who cares if you retired at 40 or not, it means diddly squat to me. The word GEEZER was used in a different terminology than the one you are used to in Kitchener, you should have included Europe in your travels :D

GEEZER=DUDE

Off you go GRINGO :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Wrong! Kitchener is attached to Waterloo. :D

Do I sense just a little jealousy here?

If you work hard and are really smart, you might be so lucky, but you'll also have to read my posts very carefully to achieve that. ;)

"Gringo" is a term used by Mexicans (and others in Latin America) to refer to the citizens of the United States, not Canadians.

Ummmm...perhaps in Mexico, but most certainly not in Brazil. Gringos is used in Brazil to describe anyone from a Western country -- American, Canadian, Dutch, etc. Heck, you can be an American of Mexican decent and still have a German-Brazilian call you gringo.

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dazed&confused
Hi there,
As you are all aware we are dead set on going to Calgary I have a job offer and everything.
But I have had a seed placed in my head, if I was to get a job in Vancouver (a possibility) I would then have a straight choice.

What would all you people out there do I would love all the pro's & Cons of both places,
I know the basic one about the house prices etc. but would love to know the main difference in living standards, cosys, qualities etc.

All this bagging of Vancouver isn't really fair. I love Vancouver. It is beautiful and eclectic. It is lovley to walk down the street with a coffee in your hand with the water and big snowcapped mountains in the back drop. Of course there are some areas that through the statistics off but you avoid areas like the Downtown east side. There deffinetly is a homlessness issue here as Vancouver has the best weather so all the homeless migrate here. If you are into music all the big names have concerts here as well there is a National Hockey Team here which is worth a look. The employment is deffenetly better in Alberta though but what are you going to do with money when it's 40 degrees below 0. No thank you. I would reather leave that for the polar bears.
good luck.

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jbean

I've never been, but I would much prefer Vancouver to be honest. Calgary strikes me as being THE most American of Canadian cities. A sort of cold version of Dallas. Perhaps I'm being grossly unfair? Lots of people also tell me it is rather right-wing. Didn't it vote for that loony right Canadian Alliance?

Regarding homelessness. Goodness, I find it hard to believe it's worse than London! The scale of homelessness there is very disturbing! It must run into tens of thousands.:scared:

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

And tell me what's wrong with being right-wing? As a leftist, shouldn't you be tolerant of other people's views, even if you don't agree with them? :rolleyes:

Re: Vancouver or Calgary ?
 

There's nothing wrong with being right wing, it's just I'd prefer to live in a more open, funky, liberally minded city that's all.
:rolleyes: