Voyager970

Hello again community,

Here again to pick the brains of the experts.
Does anyone know of a web site or any other source of information that I can get access to compare UK schools against schools in Canada.
I would, if possible like to compare the corriculum, if possible to compare what my kids are taught here in the UK, to what the kids are taught in Canadian schools
I have two daughters aged 12 and 10 and will hopefully be applying for PR in a few months. The schooling is a big issue betwen myself and my wife, as I will be uprooting them both at an important time in their education. I would like to know if the transition from UK to Cananda will be big upset in their education, or on the other hand will the transition be smooth !!!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Eddie from Glasgow in Bonnie Scotland

George-Ang

Hi Eddie

We feel very much the same regarding our childrens education, girl 15 + boy 12. I made contact with the Manitoba Education Authority who gave us lots of information - see links. Each province runs its own education so you need to check wherever you are going.


http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ks4/docs/su...nts/index.html

<http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ks4/docs/su...nts/index.html>

http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ks4/docs/pa...rad/index.html



George-Ang

Tiaribbon

Sorry I am not an expert but will give you my two cents worth. We have a 7 year old and therefore have visited a few schools in Canada. From what I have seen, Canadian schools appear to be at least 1 year behind the education being offered in the UK (you will probably notice an even bigger gap as you are under the Scottish education system which is more advanced than the English one). We have opted for private education in Canada (which is a fraction of the cost of private schools in the UK) as their system runs far more in line with UK standards. As our child is much younger than your children I do not know whether the standard picks up as they go through the grades or whether it constantly remains behind. By the time you get your PR the children will be at least 1 or 2 years older so I would check out whether there are any important exams going on at that time. Sorry I'm not much help and I don't want to be all doom and gloom but to summerize, we were not impressed at all with the standards in Canada.

PS. The schools we looked at were in BC and Ontario.

stepnek

I think this is a really difficult issue because we all want the best for our children and I have certainly done some soul searching as my own research suggests that Canadian education is a little behind the UK. However I've also heard it suggested that children in Canada end their schooling with a lot more confidence than those in the UK. I don't think that can be based on hard fact but I've come across that as a consideration several times.

Anyway we are planning our move to Canada as a permanent move and therefore I see it that my daughter will start school over there a little ahead of others and that will give her a good start. Then she will be part of the Canadian system of things and her life will be in Canada so it will not matter if the system over there is a little behind. It would be a different situation if we were only planning to be there for a limited time. If that were the case I don't believe I'd go in for the move to start with.

I don't see how a move this big can run completely smoothly and a transfer from a school in one country to another just by it's very nature has to be one of the bigger difficulties. But many people manage it with success.

Voyager970

Many thanks guys.

It will be a big upheaval for the kids. My oldest is in first year at the moment and if the timing is all wrong, when and if the PR is accepted, I would assume she will be in third year at high school. This is a very important year as they pick their subjects for which they will sit any exams on them. My other daughter is in primary six just now so she will probably be just into first year which will not be such a drama.
We will hopefully be going to Vancouver or surrounding areas
I will look into the schools in this area. I am shocked that the schooling in Canada is a good bit behind ours. My kids are very well advanced in their schooling and this may put them back a considerable bit in this.
MMMMM there is going to be a lot of soul searching on this one. I think the last thing we would want to do is to really put our kids education back.

Many thanks guys, will keep you posted

Tiaribbon

Ditto with our daughter: Don't worry too much, there is a glimmer of hope....when we were in BC they told us that they would be quite happy to move her up a year and even when we registered her at the private school in Ontario they also said that they would want to move her up a year. So they are much more flexible over there than in the UK. Don't lose sight of your long-term future for you all, including your children! Some sacrifices are worth making, and the children will be fine...kids always are!

Voyager970

Many thanks Tiaribbon for your words of wisdom

It will be a big "issue" when the time comes to pack it all up in the UK.
My wife and I are gathering all the required info as I speak just now to apply for PR status. It is a very long process, are you applying just now or waiting on an application being accepted !!!

As you were saying, kids these days are very resourceful and will bounce back from any set backs.

I will investigate fully my options for their schooling and I will keep you all posted

Thanks

Eddie, calling from a damp Glasgow

CalgaryAMC

When I was growing up my parents dragged me all over the place. South Africa, north Africa, England in between and after: educationally, none of it mattered.

It's the social dislocation you should be worried about.

Whether the kids are learning long division this term or next term doesn't matter. In any case that b.s. (let's face it, it means nothing in the long run) won't matter if your kid can't learn anything anyway because they are having such a terrible time fitting in.

So would I put my kid in a class with kids older than them because I thought it would be educationally better? No way! I wouldn't subject the poor mite to the potential bullying and other nastiness that we forget kids are so good at.

babyblue

I would just like to say that my son is 13 and we moved here last august. He was horrified to find out he was going to be placed in grade 8 as his birthday was in may. He had already completed year eight in England. This actually worked out for the best as he had a year to adjust and settle before starting highschool.

There are far more opportunities for the children out here. My son loves his soccer and is already coaching his school team. This was a massive boost for him. He is participating in a lot more sporting activities and school camps. far more than he ever did in England.
i was extremly aprehensive about the move but i know i have made the right choice now.
you will find that they take a while to adjust but English children are extremly popular with the other school children. this really helps.

good luck with your future

taira

I remember when I first came to Canada. The school system was very different and at first it was very hard to adjust. Someone in here wrote about the social change and I think this is more important than a lot of people realize.

The 'system' is different from what I remember in England. In England we seemed to advance much quicker in a lot of areas. Free writing (stories, poetry etc) we were alot further ahead. Math was done differently--the way of subtracting and such was very different and it was hard to get used to. But hardest was getting my brain around the changes, my emotions around the home-sickness, and my ears around the strange tongue these 'colonists' used.

I came here in grade 5,6 or at the end of my 3rd year in the junior school as it was called in England. We had spelling and gramma here in Canada whereas that wasn't really worried about so much in England untill the next year. Writing down pages of words and such I realized I wasn't so bad at the spelling but remembering the different names of verbs and adjectives and whatnot was harder. And then the spelling tests were murder. I remember the teacher reading out the words and me trying to translate and write down what I heard her say.

Tranna = Toronto

Traensit = transit etc.

Getting used to the pronounciation of the a = 'ai' or 'aei' was tough. We moved twice the first year we were here. When we first came we stayed in a motel in the town of Port Elgin up in Bruce County and although the people there were nice and such, still it was hard to adjust. No school dinners. We carried a packed lunch and everyone ate their sandwiches in one big room. The school itself was much bigger than the one in England and far more sprawled out. It was hard admist the numbness and excitement to remember which hallway went where.

Then shortly after we bought a house in a nearby village and we moved to Paisley. At that time there was a certain amount of animosity towards the Brittish in that particular area because we were 'taking' their jobs and this showed itself up in school. The kids themselves were slightly friendlier though some were very cruel. The teacher I had was rather vindictive in many ways so I would pay attention to what your child is saying and become her advocate. Once my mother had a stern talk with this particular teacher things improved slightly.

Ways of dress, I remember were very important to me and I don't think my mother realized this. We were still dressing 'English" whilst the other kids would show up to school in jeans and a t-shirt, we were still wearing the woolen dress pants that worked so well back home. And the kids made sure to point out that I was the wierd kid with the wierd accent. I became rather reclusive and stopped talking so much because when I spoke at school the kids would laugh at the accent and always ask me to repeat what I was saying.

Then a few years later we moved down to Sarnia. Dad had gotten another job back with Esso and being in a larger town made a lot of difference. The kids in this school were very friendly and rather than the accent being a bad thing it was okay and I will always think of this town as home in Canada because of that difference.

As far as the actual schools go there are pluses and minuses with both systems. Here in Canada there were chances to learn other things besides the basics that we didn't get so much in Britain. Instruemental music for example, we got to pick on instrument and learn it all the way up. I learned to play the clarinet with some expertise and then the oboe which was what I used as my main instrument when I went to university. Drafting was another subject I enjoyed here which I wouldn't have gotten the chance to learn in England.

The pace here is slightly slower but more time is spent on each subject and those extras are nice to have. About the worse thing you could do to your child in the new country would be to instill in him/her that they are somehow better than the other kids. If you plan on staying here, this will become their new home so the sooner they can adapt the better. Hockey is a big sport here so it would be helpful for them to at least watch a few games and learn the rules so that they have a clue what is being talked about in the classroom. Also baseball and football. At most ages, most kids just want to 'fit in' and to be accepted so best bet would be to buy less clothes in England and to go shopping once you get here. This way the kid can have a chance to see what the other kids in the school are wearing so that they have a chance of being fairly normal in their dress.

Brittish history will not be taught so if you want them to know anything concerning history you best be prepared to teach them it yourself. They will be expected to learn all the provinces and such and all about Canadian history--and a fair part of that is learning how Canada is 'different' and 'better' than the United States. Whether it truly is or not is another story, but this is what we were taught. Your kid will learn alot less facts but hopefully will learn to pick up more on such things as how to regergitate information as the teacher she/he has prefers. This goes to spelling as well. Some teachers here hate the americanized spelling and others hate the 'Brittish' spelling so you kind of have to figure out early in the term which one to use.

We don't graduate here untill 18 and once we do, we go on to either community college or university which is really big bucks. I remember that had I have stayed in England, I would have been preparing to graduate at 16 and I think that extra 2 years makes a bit of a difference. Much of what is learned in Canada is rote and memory which is a little different than in England where I think were encouraged more to think for ourselves and to learn how to express that thought.

Anyways, for those of you planning on bringing your kids here, who are nervous about how they will handle the transition, alls I would say is to listen more to them, to get rid of the idea that England/Britain is somehow superior, and to remember that kids can be extremely cruel to other kids if they are different. Friendliness tends to beget friendliness yet at first, getting used to a new school, teacher, methods of teaching, climate and then that slow realization that you can't go to your old buddies and just 'tell' them or 'hang' with them is quite the shock and so while they are dealing with the shock and home-sickness, the other kids can be taking that as if they are being less than friendly. Best thing you can do is to give your child places to hang where accent isn't such a biggie, help encourage them to do and find that which they are good at, and help them to become somewhat Canadianized. Be prepared for I'd say a good 5 years of transition--2 to get used to the place and the other 3 to start being able to call this country home.

For me, its been well worth the experience and the whole thing has taught me so much more in terms of psychology, understanding others, understanding myself and such yet there is no getting around it, the first while is tough.

I hope this helps a little.

Tiaribbon

Taira,

What a great post that was. It's so nice for a young person to give us old bods a different perspective through the child's eyes. Thank you for that, I found it very enlightening.

Tia

Lapsed Canuck

I have to say I do not necessarily agree with the other posters that Canadian education is 'behind' English education as I think that there are other factors besides the curriculum issue. In Canada, children start school a year later than children in England. Alot of this year is helping kids deal with the fact that they are no longer at home and does concentrate a fair amount on social integration and play as well as starting them on reading and simple maths. So, it could be said that children at this age and in primary school are 'behind'.

HOwever, Canadian young people stay in education longer and have a better transition generally to further education as they go to high school later and are encouraged to be independent throughout high school through their involvement in how schools are run, gradually more independent assignments and taking on more responsibility for their work. Young people have to learn to manage their workload better as it is often 60% year long coursework and 40% exams that make up the marks for a year's work. Around 14 and 15, when many English children are studying the same things over and over again in order to pass their exams, Canadian young people are moving ahead with more complex study such as a range of types of history, english, science, maths, chemistry, languages etc to choose from depending upon their interest, ability and chosen future. I feel it is at this point when the English system really lets young people down - not only because of the exclusive mode of learning and marking by exam but because they are not prepared for life in/outside university or college to the same degree as in Canada.

As someone else has mentioned, Canadian schools often have a lot more to offer children and young people socially as well as academically. The sheer number of teams, clubs and opportunities to get involved in Canadian schools is staggering when you compare it. Get hold of a Canadian shool's yearbook if you want to see what they offer.

I have worked with young people in Britain for a number of years and I am frightened by the lack of aspiration young people (especially working class young women) have and the limitations they feel are on their lives as far as a career goes. The most important thing the Canadian education system offers children and young people is choice that is not solely based upon class, gender or exam results but a wider range of influences.

So, a very long answer to your question. I love England and the people here and have lived here a long time and have worked with people from a wide range of backgrounds. However, I want to have children and I want them to have the same opportunities that I did so am going home to Canada as I don't feel they have the same level of choice and/or chances here to develop important life skills as well as learn about a wide range of interesting things. It's not all about the curriculum. Education is wider than that and this is why the Canadian education system is so well regarded internationally.

My 2p.

Voyager970

Guys
Fantastic !!!!!!!!
I have really had my eyes opened wide by your comments

Tiarra what can I say, what a post, I fully understand where you are coming from in your coments.
I have recently moved from Glasgow to a place about 30 mins drive from the city centre. This place is called Ayrshire and the kids here all speak differently that what my kids speak. My kids were born in Glasgow with a Glaswegian accent. The Ayrshire accent is so much different, so they are getting used to be being called posh, snobby etc as the Ayrshire accent is very different. I do not think they will have any probs adusting to the strange accents when we land.
With regards the slower pace in Canada, perhaps this will be good for them as my kids are under so much pressure at school to "perform" to the best of their abilities. I know there are far more opportunities for the kids in Canada, this will be good for them as they both play instruments and they love sports, something that the schools in Scotland severly lack.
Hours of homework most nights cannot be good for a kid.
I have looked at various web sites for schooling in BC and I will write or E mail for further information.
Can anyone shed any light as to how you can get the kids exam marks or lesson plans assessed against the Canadian school ciriculum, to see where they should be with regards the schooling in Canada.

Many thanks Guys and keep up with the good info

Eddie from a rainy Glasgow

taira

You bring a sample of the exam or a test they wrote, along with samples of writing and English. Good to bring as much info on what the curriculum they have taken in Glasgow with you. Then where-ever they go to school in Canada you meet with the board, show them the information--give them a list of their strengths and weaknesses and areas of interest to them and trust they will be placed in the right school.

Our education system is not unified that well. Each individual school district has power and freedom to change their curriculum somwhat and so there is a lot of diversity between schools. Some schools will be more geared towards maths and sciences while others will offer a wider variety of languages. Some will be stronger in the arts and music and others will have an excellent shop program and might even offer a hair-dressing school/co-op program for those students who wish to be hair dressers. So system is very different even from one school in a district to the next.

Also, Ontario system is different from the western provinces. We used to have grade 13--an extra year designed strictly for those kids wishing to go on to university or a strong college program. Now they have scrapped that year--about 4 years ago now, so the system is sort of scrambling to adapt. Many more kids are applying to university but many are choosing to do grade 12 in 2 years so they can take advantage of the extra courses and such that are offered. Ie my daughter wishes to become a writer so on top of all of the regular courses she is also taking an extra couple of English courses, one which is geared strictly towards writing and will give her names and ways of getting published etc.

Sometimes the administration will try to place your child in the 'wrong' school and will deny that a school in one area is better for something than another. Thats where listening to the child comes in handy and listening to the individual reports of the schools in the city. There is nothing preventing a child from busing an extra few miles (at your expense) to go to a school which is reputed to be excellent say in computer science but sometimes you do have to gun for the child's right to do this because administration can try and claim that the school in 'your' neighbourhood is just as good when you know for sure the repustion it has is for languages and it offers 8 or so different languages but the computer science program just sucks.

Voyager970

Many many thanks guys

I will investigate further and get back to you all if I have any further queries

Thanks again

Eddie from dry Glasgow