Is This True about Alberta ?
Jan 21st 2006, 5:39 pm
#1
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Is This True about Alberta ?
I read this on the Guardian board (www.guardian.co.uk/talk, International Folder, Canadian Election thread)
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
Jan 21st 2006, 5:57 pm
#2
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
I read this on the Guardian board (www.guardian.co.uk/talk, International Folder, Canadian Election thread)
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
Alberta is not the only Conservative provincial goverment, there are four other provinces with Conservative governments, plus BC and Quebec where it's de-facto 'conservative' despite a Liberal nametag.
Jeremy
Jan 21st 2006, 6:16 pm
#3
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by JAJ
Even assuming all this is true, if Alberta is such an awful place then why are so many people moving there?
Alberta is not the only Conservative provincial goverment, there are four other provinces with Conservative governments, plus BC and Quebec where it's de-facto 'conservative' despite a Liberal nametag.
Jeremy
Alberta is not the only Conservative provincial goverment, there are four other provinces with Conservative governments, plus BC and Quebec where it's de-facto 'conservative' despite a Liberal nametag.
Jeremy
It's a stretch to think of the Quebec government as being at all conservative but the point about Harper is that he's not a traditional conservative. Klein is the only Canadian political figure who is anywhere near as right wing as Harper and Klein's not even a fundy.
Last edited by dbd33; Jan 21st 2006 at 6:36 pm.
Jan 21st 2006, 6:42 pm
#4
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: The Republic of Bacon
Posts: 3,192
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
I read this on the Guardian board (www.guardian.co.uk/talk, International Folder, Canadian Election thread)
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
This got me thinking, dbd - and whilst trying to find out about the camp site issue (can't find any "free" as of yet, though there are plenty still owned by the province, and very cheap to stay at) I found this interesting link.
http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/
But I'd have to say yes to noticing some increases on a personal level - especially the car insurance, natural gas, and electricity.
Jan 21st 2006, 7:06 pm
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 605
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
I read this on the Guardian board (www.guardian.co.uk/talk, International Folder, Canadian Election thread)
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
"Harper does not have a track record. However some indication of what to expect from Conservative polices can be had from the record of the Conservative provincial governments.
In Alberta, you pay three times as much as you should for natural gas ($10 per GJ instead of instead of $3 per GJ). The price when up because Klein introduced an artificial market. The market benefits the big oil companies, but does not benefit normal people.
You pay twice as much as you should for electricity. The price went up when Klein sold off the government's generating plants.
You pay 50% more than before for automobile insurance. This was caused by introducing American style litigation practices.
Roads cost more to build and to maintain because Klein sold off the government’s construction equipment.
You pay a per capita tax – the health insurance charge --- that other Canadians do not pay.
You pay $20 per day to go camping in sites that used to be free – public campgrounds were “sold” = “given away for nothing” to private operators. Klein privatized vehicle registration. Now you pay an extra $7 to pay you vehicle taxes. Before privatization, the administrative cost was $4 per vehicle. There are many other examples of new user fees.
Tuition at the public universities has increased significantly.
The oil sands would never have been developed without almost a billion tax dollars being spend on process research. The oil sands produce 25% of Alberta’s oil. The equity structure that would have given the people a fair return on their investment was transferred to the big companies. Royalty was reduced to almost zero. The oil sands provide less than 1% of Alberta’s resource revenue."
I was taken aback by the idea of privatising camp sites. Is it true ?
But based on the rest of the article I would say it's untrue.
Natural gas and electricty are national/international markets and the price before the Alberta rebate is almost the same if not cheaper than in other provinces.
Car insurance is pricey but, based on previous discussions on this board, cheaper than other Canadian cities.
Health care costs about $80 per family per month for the standard coverage.
The stuff about the oilsands is wrong too.
Jan 21st 2006, 7:52 pm
#6
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by JAJ
Alberta is not the only Conservative provincial goverment, there are four other provinces with Conservative governments, plus BC and Quebec where it's de-facto 'conservative' despite a Liberal nametag.
Jeremy
Jeremy
The "Conservative" label may describe someone who is (1) socially conservative but not fiscally conservative, (2) fiscally conservative but not socially conservative, or (3) both socially and fiscally conservative.
Broadly speaking, the various versions of Conservative parties that existed before the current Reform / Alliance / Conservative phenomenon were populated by so called "Red Tories" and "Blue Tories." The Red Tories believed in compassionate conservatism, while the Blue Tories were cut of Reagan / Thatcher cloth.
The federal and provincial versions of the Conservative Party in the pre-Reform / Alliance era differed from each other in the extent to which they were dominated by Red Tories or Blue Tories. Not only was there a difference between the provincial parties as a collective and the federal party, but there also were differences amongst provincial parties.
In Eastern Canada the provincial versions of the Conservative Party have been so "compassionate" in their leanings that in some cases they have been more "compassionate" than federal Liberal governments that have been their contemporaries.
Some of the Red Tories in federal politics were so "compassionate" that, when the old Conservative Party broke up in 2003 and merged with Reform / Alliance, those Red Tories actually jumped to the NDP ship rather than the Liberal ship, if you can believe it.
Some provincial versions of the Conservative Party have metamorphosed over time. When I arrived in Alberta in 1977, the province's premier was Peter Lougheed. Although he was a Conservative, he was a Red Tory, and his brand of conservatism was different from that of our current premier, Ralph Klein.
In post #26 of this thread, I provided quite a detailed history of the Conservative Party in Canada.
Anyway, what does this have to do with the excerpt that I quoted from your post? Oh yes, my point is that, just because there are other provinces that nominally have Conservative governments, it does not necessarily follow that those governments are all that similar to Alberta's conservative government.
Jan 21st 2006, 9:19 pm
#7
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by Calgal
This got me thinking, dbd - and whilst trying to find out about the camp site issue (can't find any "free" as of yet, though there are plenty still owned by the province, and very cheap to stay at) I found this interesting link.
http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/
But I'd have to say yes to noticing some increases on a personal level - especially the car insurance, natural gas, and electricity.
http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/
But I'd have to say yes to noticing some increases on a personal level - especially the car insurance, natural gas, and electricity.
Car insurance in Alberta is tightly regulated by the government so, if it's expensive, that's not a result of neo-con policies. I'm specifically interested in the camp sites as privatising them would, I think, be the ultimate in ideologically driven silliness. Even the US National Parks Service hasn't been sold off.
Jan 21st 2006, 9:20 pm
#8
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by CalgaryBlade
Not sure about camp sites as we haven't camped yet.
But based on the rest of the article I would say it's untrue.
Natural gas and electricty are national/international markets and the price before the Alberta rebate is almost the same if not cheaper than in other provinces.
Car insurance is pricey but, based on previous discussions on this board, cheaper than other Canadian cities.
Health care costs about $80 per family per month for the standard coverage.
The stuff about the oilsands is wrong too.
But based on the rest of the article I would say it's untrue.
Natural gas and electricty are national/international markets and the price before the Alberta rebate is almost the same if not cheaper than in other provinces.
Car insurance is pricey but, based on previous discussions on this board, cheaper than other Canadian cities.
Health care costs about $80 per family per month for the standard coverage.
The stuff about the oilsands is wrong too.
Jan 21st 2006, 10:10 pm
#9
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 605
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
Love the pictures !
I'm specifically interested in the camp sites as privatising them would, I think, be the ultimate in ideologically driven silliness. Even the US National Parks Service hasn't been sold off.
I'm specifically interested in the camp sites as privatising them would, I think, be the ultimate in ideologically driven silliness. Even the US National Parks Service hasn't been sold off.
Not sure about the Provincial parks though.
Jan 21st 2006, 10:33 pm
#10
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
It's a stretch to think of the Quebec government as being at all conservative
Wasn't the current Premier of Quebec a former federal Conservative minister (and leader?)
Jeremy
Jan 21st 2006, 10:38 pm
#11
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,883
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
I'm specifically interested in the camp sites as privatising them would, I think, be the ultimate in ideologically driven silliness. Even the US National Parks Service hasn't been sold off.
The rates they can charge are regulated by the government and vary from $5.00 - $17.00/night for a Basic campsite.
Base rate established by department/facility operator based upon market conditions, plus additional services.
I don't agree with this concept, but then again this is Ralph's world and not all of us that live here agree with it.
I don't camp and can't guarantee that this is totally correct but I think this is how it works.
Cheers
Steve
Jan 21st 2006, 10:43 pm
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 248
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
So, you don't know ?
It's a stretch to think of the Quebec government as being at all conservative but the point about Harper is that he's not a traditional conservative. Klein is the only Canadian political figure who is anywhere near as right wing as Harper and Klein's not even a fundy.
It's a stretch to think of the Quebec government as being at all conservative but the point about Harper is that he's not a traditional conservative. Klein is the only Canadian political figure who is anywhere near as right wing as Harper and Klein's not even a fundy.
Jan 21st 2006, 10:46 pm
#13
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 248
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by dbd33
But there is a healthcare premium ? I suppose that's not practically any different than having a small sales tax but it's not very Canadian.
Jan 22nd 2006, 12:32 am
#14
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by JAJ
Wasn't the current Premier of Quebec a former federal Conservative minister (and leader?)
Jeremy
Jeremy
Jan 22nd 2006, 12:39 am
#15
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: Is This True about Alberta ?
Originally Posted by Hangman
I don't agree with this concept, but then again this is Ralph's world and not all of us that live here agree with it.