Mikeypm

If the service is good I do not mind giving a tip, what is annoying is when people expect a tip regardless of service. I would also tip on the conservative side after all if you go crazy with tipping everyone then expects big tips

Scribble

they don't tip there

iaink

To me its unfair to tip nothing, as for that to be warranted everyone from the greeters to the busboys and washeruppers and the cooks and servers all must have been crap, and that seems unlikely.

The reality is the servers dont ever see the full 15%, its split with the behind the scenes low paid serfs too. Its unfair to punish everyone in my opinion if one person falls down on the job.

Thats the basic problem with tipping though, its impossible to ensure that it goes to those that deserve it and only those that deserve it...

But "when in rome"


What I hate is when the service charge its automatically added to the bill, often at what seems to me to be an optimistic %... although if its a large group I suppose it ensures that no one person gets stiffed for the tip.

Piff Poff

I'll be honest I haven't read everyones replies, but IMHO anyone that is opposed to tipping (in a restaurant) has never had to serve the public in that capacity. Servers work hard, have to split their tips, regardless of whether they even got a tip and they pay taxes on them too - whether or not they got tips, they get taxed a percentage, in the UK they get taxed at source.

Jingsamichty

I wonder if those who don't tip would be happy if their take-home pay was arbitrarily decided by their boss on a day-to-day basis depending on how he viewed their efforts that day.

iaink

That doesnt make sense, for servers to get a non arbitrary take home amount, then they would have to be paid a set wage, with no random amount of tips on top...

A better argument would be to say would people be happy to work in an environment where there was no performance related bonus, but as many people do just that its probably not a winner either.

Alan2005

When I get poor service I tip anyway and never go back. Ignorance of cultural norms aside, I always thought this was the British way of doing things. Not tipping at all is just making too much of a fuss.

Scribble

So you tip and don't go back but if you didn't tip you wouldn't get served when you went back anyway
Yeah, as far as I'm aware the Brits always tip in restaurants.
I always tip in bars in the US and Canada as well because it is the norm even though I disagree with it especially when the waiter has done little to deserve it like just pouring beer into a glass.
Makes me wonder who these Brits are that aren't paying - arguing against it is one thing but not doing it another.

Jingsamichty

But the tips aren't random, that's the point. Every waiter expects to pull 15% of tips based on turnover, because they have to pay-out the back staff based on that amount.

Every customer who tips LESS than 15% is probably costing the waiter money. They would get paid their base wage whether the customer came in or not - to serve a "non-tipper" means they have to pay-out the back staff from their own money. They would be better off having no customers than non-tippers.

jericho

Then, as is being argued, provide decent service and there's nothing to worry about.
I still find it odd that people are arguing in favour of tipping people who provide shite service.

Almost Canadian

I understand that you work for an insurance company. I assume you provide a service to your employer's customers. If you are like most people, there will be customers that believe you provided good service (the vast majority) and those that believe you didn't (because of, for example, cultural differences), without you being able to respond to their decision. Some may even call this shite service.

Have you ever had your take home pay withheld by your employer under such conditions? If so, then I accept your position. If not ...

Jingsamichty

It's a question of whether the person who provided "shite service" is to be left no better off after having served you, or actually out of pocket. If you tip 'only' 10%, chances are that the waiter has earned little to nothing from you because they still have to pay out the back staff. If you tip nothing at all, they are out of pocket because they still have to pay out...

It's not just about the relative shiteness of service though - another poster objected to tipping a buck to the barman in principle, not because of any alleged deficiencies in his service.

jericho

Apples and oranges.

Tips are to reward good service, they are not to supplement someones income.
I see we disagree on this, so perhaps we should leave it at that.

Jingasmichty hit the nail on the head for me. "Every waiter expects 15%...". The onus is on the server to earn the tip, it's not on me to pay it.

It's a moot argument for me, as I rarely encounter service that doesnt justify a tip, but I do stand by the principal.

I was in Jack Astors recently with the wife and kids. After 20 minutes, we had to find a server just to take our drinks order, and then it was another 20 minutes before she came back to take the food order. She delivered the kids desserts while we were still eating the main, and then she handed us the bill before even asking if we wanted dessert (of course, with a nice smiley face scribbled on). I suspected she was finishing her shift and we were being rushed out because she wanted to make sure she got a tip before she clocked off. No doubt she was disappointed when we left....

bats

What's shite service though? I can't remember having really bad service in Canada as it's usually good. When it's underpar or offhand I tip less but I still tip. If it was so bad that you weren't going to tip wouldn't you have to say something at the time??

jericho

I don't spend too much time worrying about how much of someones pay check gets divided with someone else. I'm quite happy to pay for good service and I am more than reasonable with what constitutes "good service" (be pleasant, get the order right, basically).
It's unfortunate if they're out of pocket, but perhaps they're in the wrong job.