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Technical question for sparkies

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Old Mar 15th 2008 | 3:37 pm
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Default Technical question for sparkies

My garburator (in sink garbage disposal) has expired. I have bought a new one to replace it. Not a big deal, I have installed these before.

The wiring instructions with the new unit say that it MUST be grounded to the main panel (consumer unit in the UK). However, the existing wiring is only two-core: hot and return. I have always understood that anything connected to a metal sink is automatically grounded via the cold water pipe.

I can understand why code says this is no longer acceptable because sometimes copper pipe is replaced by plastic pipe, which obviously will not work as a ground.

I should get a qualified electrician, but these are harder to find than a liberal that supports Dion. My question is, if I know for sure that the cold water pipe is all copper from my sink to the below ground entry into my basement, is grounding to this pipe an OK solution? Or am I about to fry my family?
 
Old Mar 15th 2008 | 3:57 pm
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by JonboyE
My garburator (in sink garbage disposal) has expired. I have bought a new one to replace it. Not a big deal, I have installed these before.

The wiring instructions with the new unit say that it MUST be grounded to the main panel (consumer unit in the UK). However, the existing wiring is only two-core: hot and return. I have always understood that anything connected to a metal sink is automatically grounded via the cold water pipe.

I can understand why code says this is no longer acceptable because sometimes copper pipe is replaced by plastic pipe, which obviously will not work as a ground.

I should get a qualified electrician, but these are harder to find than a liberal that supports Dion. My question is, if I know for sure that the cold water pipe is all copper from my sink to the below ground entry into my basement, is grounding to this pipe an OK solution? Or am I about to fry my family?
Well Jonboy, I'd wait for a qualified answer before trying. Frying your family has got to be stressful
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 2:32 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by geedee
Well Jonboy, I'd wait for a qualified answer before trying. Frying your family has got to be stressful
Not to mention downright inconvenient and ultimetely time consuming...
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:01 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

it direct connection (wires are coming out of wall) or receptical
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:14 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by coolzak
it direct connection (wires are coming out of wall) or receptical
I understood that all garburators are to be wired directly with armoured cable.
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:21 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

it must be on separate line but my preferred way to wire (overkill i belive)is gfi receptacle and insulating swith
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:29 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by coolzak
it must be on separate line but my preferred way to wire (overkill i belive)is gfi receptacle and insulating swith
But that doesn't answer the OP's question.

How does he ground it?

If his home has all copper plumbing can he connect the ground wire to one of the pipes?
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:39 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

i would install gfi receptacle and connect garburator using plug but he should consult city about regulation in his area because it vary in different locations
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 3:52 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by coolzak
i would install gfi receptacle and connect garburator using plug but he should consult city about regulation in his area because it vary in different locations
In Alberta code states it must be wired to the switch so you can't use a GFCI receptacle.

I suspect B.C. will be the same.

Edit: According to the "Electrical Code Simplified" Alberta version.

Rule 10-700 says that whenever we have at least 10ft. (3 m) of continuously conductive metal water piping system that is located underground at least 600 mm (24 in.) below finished grade level entering a single family house we must use that metal pipe as the service grounding electrode. This arrangement is acceptable without any additional grounding electrodes.
I would take it from this that as long as you know that the cold water pipe you intend to use as the ground is connected to the main metal (copper) supply pipe with only metal (copper) pipe and there is no plastic pipe in between that it would be OK to use as the ground for the garburator.

I am not an electrician this is just my interpretation of what I have read, so I could be talking nonsense.

Last edited by Steve_P; Mar 16th 2008 at 4:32 am.
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 4:43 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Thanks guys. Still here. Now, all I have to do is turn the circuit back on at the main pa
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 5:16 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

There is a book called Electrical Code Simplified 'Residential' for BC, which I have found quite useful. Costs around $10.

There are specific regs concerning garburators.
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 5:55 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by JonboyE
Thanks guys. Still here. Now, all I have to do is turn the circuit back on at the main pa
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 6:29 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by Steve_P
In Alberta code states it must be wired to the switch so you can't use a GFCI receptacle.

I suspect B.C. will be the same.

Edit: According to the "Electrical Code Simplified" Alberta version.

I would take it from this that as long as you know that the cold water pipe you intend to use as the ground is connected to the main metal (copper) supply pipe with only metal (copper) pipe and there is no plastic pipe in between that it would be OK to use as the ground for the garburator.

I am not an electrician this is just my interpretation of what I have read, so I could be talking nonsense.

The code is saying that you can use the main water pipe as the main grounding electrode outside of the house (if you cannot connect to a ground rod/plate), not that you can connect to it inside of the house to ground appliances.

Do not connect the ground from the garberator to the cold water pipe you are not allowed. I would suggest that you contact an electrician or if you feel confident run a new circuit to where is it required (you need it on a seperate circuit). By the sound of it your house has old wiring in it so contacting an electrician would probably be the best bet.
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 6:30 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by lawson44
Do not connect the ground from the garberator to the cold water pipe you are not allowed. I would suggest that you contact an electrician or if you feel confident run a new circuit to where is it required (you need it on a seperate circuit). By the sound of it your house has old wiring in it so contacting an electrician would probably be the best bet.
Sounds like sage advise.
 
Old Mar 16th 2008 | 9:04 am
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Default Re: Technical question for sparkies

Originally Posted by lawson44
Do not connect the ground from the garberator to the cold water pipe you are not allowed.
I've been a good boy. I asked the man in Home Depot what kind of cable I needed and he sold me some water proofed 3 wire cable. I've run this from the junction box under the floor (thank God for t-bar ceiling in the basement).

I've no skin left on my knuckles, I've shocked my elderly neighbor with my language, and spent 5 hours doing a 1/2 hour job, but I now have a working, and safe, garburator.

My house was built in 1972 so there is some interesting wiring about. I can see that the main panel is earthed to the cold water pipe at the point it enters the building. I don't know if this is the only earth or if it is a backup to a ground rod.

Thanks to everyone for their help.
 


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