Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

i know every job has pressures, but i am interested to know from those who teach in canada how you feel about your jobs. Love it? Hate it? Do you get job satisfaction? Respect from students? or like many teachers i know here, are you under permanent stress, fear of inspections that ask far too much? fear of the kids failing ?(even tho at times there is little contribution on their side) (NOT all kids tho..) little support from parents,? (some actually do try but theyve also lost it with their preciois ones)tears on a sunday night?(teachers not the kids!)

Just wondered what the comparison is,

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

If I can speak on behalf of my wife who is a teacher......

No fear of inspections, leastways nothing to compare to an ofsted. Stress? Yes I believe so. Mostly around getting a permanent teaching position in the first place.....

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Who'd of expected professional accountability in teaching? :blink:

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Or, more accurately, who'd expect professional accountability in an unionised professions such as teaching?

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Fear of personal disappointment and blame when kids fail due to not doing any work wotsoever.........having spent hours planning to make it fun!!...

Those who teach know wot i mean :sneaky:

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

To sort of answer the original question, while there are some truly crap teachers here, they seem to identify with the children and believe its their job to help the students learn, rather than blame their professional inadequacies on the pupils, their parents or OSTED. Although if they have biscuits in the staffroom, they're crap, so bring your own.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I have a friend who teaches in Rexdale. She says she's often in fear for her life.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kind of like fear of reprisal and/or loss of job for failure to meet targets, sales expectations, metrics in a job description etc etc, after putting in hours of work?

Why should teaching be viewed any differently from any other profession in terms of accountability?

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

As i say, those who teach know what i mean :D

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Educate those of us that don't. :)

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Wot, Wotsoever, Tho, this is what is taught in schools in Britain today?

Accountability is how standards are maintained. Myself and many of my former colleagues had to do regular checks and training, lots of questions were asked, if we failed we were unemployed. Every profession should be accountable, not least to their employer.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

It isn't. There are certain performance standards, outcomes and conduct for which teachers are accountable. They just seem to moan a lot about it in the UK. Teachers moan here, but its usually around pay, extra-curricular work, or prep-time. In fact, the world over, teachers are a moany lot. :rofl:

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I didn't suggest teaching was viewed differently to working in any other job...my last job was a buyer for a large fashion retailer, so i know what youre talking about re sales expectations, targets etc (which infact was a doddle compared to teaching) ..I simply wanted to know if teaching in canada differed at all to teaching in UK...... that's all

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Who get 10+ weeks off a year.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Can I suggest you all stop having a go and stick to answering the question if you can. If you cant, then I fail to see what the point of deriding teachers is, other than to make you look bad.

Personally I wouldnt be a teacher for all the tea in china, but I fail to see how excessive government assessment in the classroom, and dictating how a professional should go about their job is supposed to help. As a non teacher I would say the main difference here is the absense of a national curriculum and standardised testing, and the league tables that result from that. Teachers of course are still assessed within the school board, and provincial testing occurs, but I imagine its less rigourous, less frequent and less pressured. If that frees up teachers to be enthusiastic and creative then thats a good thing, but on the other hand it means some less good teachers get to slip by too...

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Oh, I know, both my sisters and Mum teach. We have endless fun debates about it ;)

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I didn't know I was actually teaching anybody on here when I actually wrote those words, i assumed most would be educated. However 'wot' wotsoever' is used on some people who may need differentiation. Hope you are not having any difficulties with it. If you are, PM me and I'll help you with the correct spelling.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Me too, but with my retired Dad, he was a teacher under Thatcher's regime.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Please, put it on here and help others, I would not want to be greedy and hog all your time alone.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I teach at a Uni so that's different anyway, but the OH is a teacher in the public school system (York region). She gets pissed off at the administrivia, but it's not as bad as the UK I think. Moreover, at least in her school, there are few or no problems with disrespect or with discipline.

Admittedly, Unionville is not Rexdale.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

There is not the fear of the dreaded OSTED inspection. Teachers are fairly well compensated, as for 'respect' from students, it depends where you teach. The big difference is the amount of parental pressure/expectation, and the sense of entitlement is especially prevalent in the more affluent areas. Although not as much as in the US.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

From work?

I've no idea ...who?

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

no chance of that! i don't have any time!

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

That's why its dangerous to discuss 'education' civilians. They've all gone to school, read the newspaper so think their opinion is valid, when its based on biased personal experience, heresy and superstition instead of any empirical research.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Others don't seem to be having a problem, with it :D

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Debate about teaching aside, Oink has the right of it here as far as the OP's enquiry is concerned. I'd simply add that the challenge in obtaining a permanent, full time K-12 teaching position should not be overlooked. You will need an additional source of income to keep body and soul together for the n years it will take to break into the system.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Thank you for that Iaink...

Some teachers who have taught for many years do moan, because the bars have certainly been raised when it comes to accountability. Inspections are necessary and indeed welcomed from senior management. Of course we all want personal development, to learn and progress and pass it on to the kids but some government expectations are ridiculously unrealistic and yes, more time is spent on preparation for inspection than being creative and enthusiastic with the kids (ahem or should i say students)which is really quite sad.....

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Patsy
I'm a teacher, although currently not teaching over here as I'm going through the certification process at the moment (doing a uni course in Canadian studies for 6 months to complete their requirements). I'm not a secondary teacher but a primary/elementary one.

My views (so far from the association I've had with local teachers and schools) are that teachers here in the elementary sector are a mixed bag. Some work extremely hard, just as hard as we're used to in the UK, long hours....weekends....etc. I don't think so many work through their summer vacations in their respective schools bar a few days before school starts again, in fact many work other jobs over the long summer break. Other teachers seem to 'wing it' more without too much fear of accountablility.

I'm currently applying for a full time teaching post starting this coming September, having done other related education work while I'm doing the extra training. I think the extra legislation and OFSTED related standards in the UK have ensured that teachers are less 'hit and miss' in the UK than they are here, however, the teachers I've met here are a little more chilled and less stressed/overworked than in the UK.
Hope that helps a bit.....:thumbup:

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Patsy:

I'm a HS Eng. teacher in QC. It's a great job - provided you have some self sourced motivation. Job satisfaction for me is important - in my case I see it being derived from (a) personal goals, (b) positive student interaction/student goals, (c) subject interest and importantly, (d) ignoring the school administration/school board for 10 months of the year. In my experience the admin/board are self-serving and superfluous entities that complicate matters too often - I can make 100+ decisions before they act in any situation.

Like the UK, student respect is earned and dearly bought; you should know this by now? That said, school location/organisation does have an impact, esp. concerning rural (rabbit hunters) and urban (chrystal meth dealers/users) schools. I once taught in a poorly organised and managed semi-rural/semi-suburban school where 35% of the kids were complete ****ing assholes; they barely respected each other, let alone their parents, support staff and the teaching staff.

I have a low stress classroom because I purposefully seek to avoid conflicts by denying any asshole kid entrance. Unless they are willing to behave under my terms they aren't welcome. You want to sit "quietly" and mentally jerk off in the corner? Fine, sit there, but don't ask me any favours kid. Stress avoidance is paramount here in Can. as the UK.

In my experience school inspections are practically non-existent, with the exceptions of private or IB schools (no OFSTED).

Of course I fear for the failing student, but I try my hardest to help them succeed; if they don't succeed, well, let the chips fall where they may. The way the current (QC) education system is being moulded makes it much more difficult for kids to "fail' in the classical sense. This situation is also evident in BC and Ont., according to teacher/admin friends in said provinces. We know this is creating problems for post secondary education institutions (e.g. low literacy, low numeracy, delusions of grandeur, sense of entitlement, etc.). I have no idea how such social trends develop, but so be it. The next generation shall be an interesting one (twit-err???;)).

I find parental support a mixed bag, and it is so easy to pass the buck (back and forth) here, but in this ****ed up world I do my job to the best of my ability. Many of my parent experiences are positive, and I see many parents actively involved in their children's lives/education. I try very hard to problem solve with concerned parents. I honestly do fear for the poor little waifs who lack parental wisdom or presence; ultimately, it's not my problem, and I can't be expected to fill in for crappy parents. It breaks my heart to see troublesome/needy/wanting kids. Yet, I see each kid (x135) in class for 50 minutes per day, and that amounts to squat as far as parenting is concerned.

At the end of the day, I drive home in an all expenses paid company car, with a huge smile on my face, oftentimes laughing, with a big fat paycheque (deposited into my offshore account), barely work on-and-off for less than 200 days (at the expense of the tax-payers, Ha! Ha! Haaaa!; some of them on this forum too!), take free trips (paid by students and taxpayers), boss pimply teenagers around, flick swotty kids in the back of the head in the hallway, read trashy novels/beaver mags/play COD 4 between lessons, hang out with a 75% majority female staff and suffer the envy of all non-teachers;). It's just bliss.

P.S. I apologise, wotsoever, to the forum NKVD for my poor spelling, sentence syntax, punctuation faults, lack of professionalism, lack of knowledge, cold-heartedness, un-PCness, boils, spots, bullshit and inadequate etiquette. Not.

P.P.S. BTW, teachers in Quebec are not paid for the summer vacation (i.e. June 25-August 25), nor are they recognised as "professionals" by the Gouvernement du Quebec.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Patsy

I teach elementary in Ontario. I find it to be less stressful teaching in Canada. You get plenty of prep time, decent pay and much less paperwork. There is not the same amount of accountability here than there is in the UK which is great if you're a hard working teacher. Unfortunately bad teachers easily slip through the net as the unions are strong and make it difficult to get rid of them. Seniority rules rather than ability or qualifications.

I find I do the same amount of work and planning as I did in the UK but it's because I choose to rather than have to so it is more meaningful than prescribed. Also, I have done much more PD here as I work for a large school board that provides plenty of opportunities for PD - much more so than in the UK. Again, alot of that is voluntary.

Respect from students, parent support and job satisfaction depend on individual circumstances and individual teachers but the external government pressures are much less in my opinion.

Chris

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I wonder why:p

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

My wife is a Canadian teacher, who taught in England for the first 4 years of her career. She taught in a terrible school in England (knife fights at playtime etc) and a very good school here, so she certainly prefers teaching in Calgary. She still has trouble makers in her class, but they are a small minority, and are mostly tame compared to England. She finds it funny that in their sheltered little worlds they think they're hard, but they'd be eaten alive in some English schools!

Assessment of teachers is performed by the school, rather than external assessors. Last year, one of the parents in her class made complaints about the school's Head and Deputy Head, so the board had to get involved, but there wasn't the same presumption of guilt that seems to apply in such cases in England. After a hearing, the board sided with the school.

She spent her first year on a temporary contract and is now on a probationary contract, so she has to go through the usual assessments and administrative hoops to get that converted to a permanent position for next year. It was stressful towards the end of last year, when we were waiting to hear if she would have a teaching post come September, as tenured teachers get first dibs on all the jobs, and newcomers have to sit and wait for the Calgary Board of Education to throw them the scraps at the end! Thankfully, her good performance last year helped to secure a job at the same school. It seems to be easier to secure permanent work in Alberta than other provinces, where they have too many qualified teachers for the number of teaching posts.

My wife had the advantage of having qualifies at the University of Calgary. I don't think that it would be so easy for a British qualified teacher to walk into such a plum job. Indeed, a friend who recently returned to England was on a temporary contract for the whole six years she was teaching in Calgary. She probably could have become permanent at a different school, but liked the school and the permanent posts there were always taken by tenured teachers.

One thing which is a pain with teaching in Calgary is that HR is outsourced to Telus. Why a telephone company runs HR is anyone's guess, but they're absolutely hopeless. At one point they were taking money out of our bank account, instead of paying it in! They also managed to lose all of the paperwork for new teachers at my wife's school last year, so they had to go and get police checks etc redone. They seemed unconcerned that so many teachers were illegally in classrooms without any criminal record check!

A final point - my wife's teaching experience in England counted towards her experience for pay purposes when she moved here. It was another bureaucratic process, as the the Head Teachers of the two schools each had to sign documents to confirm her teaching experience, within a very short time frame. The schools were then required to fax them back to Telus directly - teachers are expressly forbidden from receiving the documents and passing them on. Telus has no process for tracking the receipt of the forms, and managed to lose one of them twice.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Tom Masters,
I enjoyed reading your post. How easy was it to get your PGCE converted? I have received conflicting information. Some say that once you get certification, you can teach immediately, however, I have also been told that you have to re-train. As you are in Ontario (and that's where I'm headed), I thought you would have more info.

I am currently studying for the PGCE in the UK, which is bad enough but the thought of having to go through this again in Canada is unbearable!! By the time we move, I should have also passed my NQT year but I won't have any teaching experience on top of that. Will this be enough to get certification?

Sorry for all the questions but any info you could give me would be appreciated.
Becky

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Becky

I did the B.Ed and it was no problem at all - just a lengthy wait due to beaurocracy. The OCT are very slow at processing! I know of others who did the PGCE and had no problems getting their qualifications recognized. You don't need experience to get certification, just the qualifications. You should be fine.

Getting a job is another matter! Virtually everyone has to do supply work first before they stand a chance at getting any kind of permanent position. It also depends on which school board you work for - some are more difficult to get into than others. Although it is hard, it is not impossible. Being hard working, determined and patient will get you there in the end - it is worth it. The key is having enough funds or a source of income to keep you going until you get there! Good luck:)

Chris

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Best post EVAH!!

And my god you're right about the end products entering post-secondary.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi Chris
Many thanks for your response. I feel so much better now. I hated the though of putting myself through hell to have to do it again in Canada. I am training to be a French teacher so when I get to Canada if there are no supply posts available I will do some voluntry work in a local school and see if that leads to anything.
We're not making the move until the OH has a job so it won't be a problem if I don't work immediately.
How long have you been in London, Ontario? I spent a summer there in 1986 and even went to school for a week. I loved it!!
Becky

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

If you going to live in Canada and want to teach there, why on earth would you enter teacher training in the UK? Just do it here, its not very good but if you want a job, your chances will be significantly higher if you train here.
And its true, the more average candidates most often have to start out as substitutes, but if you're young and have something about you, you'll should be able get a full-time job without using the subbing route.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I did think about training in Canada but I wanted a back up in case we don't move. I can't put my life here on hold while we apply and I was told that Ontario recognise the PGCE so it seemed like the best solution.
I don't mind proving myself via the supply teacher route as it counts towards Canadian experience.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Hi there,

If you are training to be a French teacher you shouldn't have any trouble finding a full time job. Although it really depends upon where you are seeking employment. It really depends upon what you teach! They do tend to favour teachers that have been trained in Canada as they know the curriculum and the culture better. Given this, I would encourage you to train in Canada if possible.

Re: Teaching secondary!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Yes, if you teach modern languages, maths or science your chances of employment are high, as we have enough thickies to teach, language arts, social studies and PE..