Spring general election?
 

I'm guessing yes. The Bloc has behaved itself so far but there are now two major areas of disagreement between it and Harper:

1) the gun registry
2) Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, particularly as the Vandoos will be next up to bat.

Whatever Harper decides about the registry, he's going to lose support somewhere.

Not sending the Vandoos will make it very hard to maintain Canada's presence in Afghanistan, and screw Harper's standing with the US. Sending them will destroy Tory support in Quebec.

I don't think it will long before Duceppe pulls the plug. If he does, and throws his hat back into the Parti Quebecois ring, guess what comes next?

Re: Spring general election?
 

The really scary thing about that is that, apart from Duceppe, there's no credible alternative to Harper (not that I wish to suggest that Harper's in any way a credible leader but he is the incumbent) and Duceppe won't run nationally.

Re: Spring general election?
 

I can see one possible scenario and it does take something of a stretch in imagination. A Bloc/Grit coalition (not a merger, obviously).

Re: Spring general election?
 

Danny Williams! :)

Re: Spring general election?
 

I cant see it myself.

Charest doesnt appear to make any sense bringing up the gun registy in this case. The gun used was a legally registered weapon, and was nothing to do with the long gun registry in any case as assault rifles have been "restrictred weapons" since Adam was a boy. Its the usual brain dead knee jerk reaction, and does nothing to convince me that those people are fit to lead a shopping expedition, let alone a nation

Hey, maybe they should have a law about people shooting other people....Oh, hang on....never mind!

Re: Spring general election?
 

For those without the background... what's the problem with Harper, Charest and the rest???

Re: Spring general election?
 

The problems with Harper are legion. For a start:

- the Mormon hair
- the religious fundamentalism
- the poodling to Bush.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Hmm, same description (albeit perhaps without the mormon hair) could be applied to one Mr T Bliar esq?

Re: Spring general election?
 

G'won bye!

Re: Spring general election?
 

I don't think Harper shares the same pathetic desire to be loved.

Turning to Duceppe, the main problems are:

irritating voice

looks like he's just sat on something very sharp

he's clearly so popular that he has 24/7 protection by several large, shaven-headed chaps with bulges in their armpits

Re: Spring general election?
 

Well, Harper started life as a rabid right wing economist with strong ties to a US style of politics, and he has moderated / hidden those roots to get elected in the wake of a Liberal (traditional party of power) meltdown after the sponsorship scandal and general mismanagement. So far as PM hes largely behaved himself, but the nation watched and waits....

Charest and Duceppe are seperatists, which is what adds spice to politics in Canada. Right now the Bloc is supporting a minority Con government, and the liberals are still dithering over who should be the new leader.

I guess a potted summary of canadian politics can be found at the wikipedia for those intersted.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Blair however has some control over his body. Harper's every expanding gut makes one wonder, if he can't control his body, can he really control a country ? Anyway, Blair's more collegial, one has the impression that Blair discusses his policies (at least with his wife and dubya) while Harper acts alone and depends on the diplomatic skills of Jason Kenney and Art Hanger to clean up. And what a fine job they do :

http://www.intheirownwords.ca/tories.html

Re: Spring general election?
 

Not recently, if he did what he wanted, I dont think he would have got elected, there is definitly a close circle of advisers to keep him on track and electable.

The site you quoted was in fact a liberal party election website..the last quote there is from '04

Re: Spring general election?
 

The crux of the problem in Canada, surely, is that the Liberals don't have a leader and the choice of candidates is dire. They need Belinda.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Well, they need someone anyway!

Wasnt Belinda a Conservative until the last election..the one whos dad runs Magna and is the weathiest canadian alive.

Thinking about it, that makes her perfect for the job ;) :)

Re: Spring general election?
 

Oh, yes, I know the quotes are old, they've been close mouthed since they've been in power and have even moved to limit the power of the press to report; we can't have those body bags on the nightly news.

This one's newer than 2004 though:

"The fact is that homosexuals aren’t barred from marrying under Canadian law... Marriage is open to everybody as long as they’re a man and a woman."

- Conservative MP Jason Kenney, Punjabi Editorial Board Interview, January 30, 2005.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Having independent means does ensure that one is not tempted by corruption for personal financial gain. Although corruption to improve / maintain power is a different matter. Saint Danny of Newfoundland is a wealthy chap and squeaky clean which is more can be said for other Newfoundland politicians who seem to have syphoned off several hundred thousand dollars through one way or t'other.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Yes, that's her, a glamorous woman with a scarlet past. You don't think she's a better option than an American academic or Ontario's Ted Heath ?

Re: Spring general election?
 

Hmm. You recon? Didnt help Martin did it. He was not exaclty short of a bob or two. Cretien was a succesfull Lawyer too, and had a fair amount of personal wealth.

What it really does is free one up from the scrutiny of people wondering where your election funds are coming from.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Personally I though putting the decision to televise repatriations in the hands of the relatives was the correct thing to do. I certainly would not want glaring media intrusion on a personal tragedy. The deaths are reported, you dont need close ups of the greaving widow and fatherless children.

Living near Trenton we hear more than enough about the steady stream of bodies returning through the base here, and using the facilities at the base, talking to the people here is a sobering reminder of what exactly does go on at the dirty pointy end of international policy decisions. They still largely think that what they are doing in Afghanistan is making a difference to thousands of lives there.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Its Hobsons Choice. None of them set my pulse racing.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Why on earth do they think that ? Attempting to colonize Afghanistan has been a disaster for the UK, the US, and the Russians (to name a few powers), Canada's not going to do any better as we can see from the record crops this year. It's one thing to say that Canada is willing to lose a few soliders for the sake of better relations with the US but quite another to pretend that they can achieve anything.

Re: Spring general election?
 

This provides an idea of what it's like over there (the ambush video or the dawn raid).

http://youtube.com/results?search_ty...%20Afghanistan

Re: Spring general election?
 

Erm. because small girls can now go to school to learn how to do things for themselves, rather than serve as mens slaves.

Because if they left a bunch of oppressive extremists would quickly move to take power again. Its not about colonisation, its about creating a certain amount of stability so that the Afghanis can decide freely what they want to do for themselves without too much imposition from the old power wielding minority. That wont happen overnight, but is a worthwhile aim to get some stability in the region.

You seem to be confusing Afghanistan with Iraq. I think you will find they are there in support of a UN resolution, not a unilateral US foreign policy decision. Unfortunately sometimes as one of the larger countries on the world stage you have to stand up for whats right.

Re: Spring general election?
 

"A Dedication to the Soldiers"

Thats it in a nutshell. Thanks!

Re: Spring general election?
 

You romantic!

According to a lengthy article I read this week nothing has changed due to the attempted occupation. The Taliban rules the south while a corrupt and ineffectual government in the north makes no use of the schools the unwelcome foreigners have built. It was, of course, in the Guardian. Will hunt for a link.

Troops may be in Afghanistan as the result of a UN resolution but Canadian troops are there to free American ones for service in Iraq. There's no moral dimension to the Canadian involvement.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Much as I like the Guardian, I prefer to beleive what the forces people I spoke to who have been there told me. They say they are making a difference, and just wish they had more resources. Why do you think they are fighting the Taliban in the south?, and without some sort of day to day stability that makes everyone safe to express there opinion, how is the democratic process ever going to be allowed to elect an effective government.

The west created this situation through years of activity in Afghanistan, and has a duty to try and clean it up.

Re: Spring general election?
 

What nonsense again, Canada voted for the resolution, so canada sends troop. There are plenty of US troops in Afghanistan too (the majority by a long way), you make it sound like there are none!

Cretien in one of his few worthy moments said that Canadians would go to Iraq only if there was a UN mandate. There wasnt so they didnt go. Afghanistan was a totally different situation.

Re: Spring general election?
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanista...865302,00.html

The piece in the paper was a longer review of "Afghanistan Five Years Later" but the key points were the same :

- the military is primarily concerned with drug wars

- the war on drugs has failed, the opium crop is bigger than ever

- the Taliban is resurgent

- the population resents the invading force.

I submit that the western governments that have sent troops there did so knowing the mission to be pointless and did so, not because they anticipated success, but in pursuit of unrelated policy aims. Specifically, in the case of Canada, to please the US administration.

Re: Spring general election?
 

If that was the case then why piss them off so royally by refusing to go gung ho into Iraq. You make no sense. You might as well argue that every vote the security council makes is dependent solely on who wants to be the USAs best mate, as they are the only superpower around now.

Its a big mess, its going to take time to sort it out. Its took 30 years or more to **** up Afghanistan, you cant fix it overnight, and you certainly wont if you turn tail when the old guard start to fight back.

There was a big schpeil in the media only this week about how it was not about opium, despite the afghani government and some of the UN wanting it to be. The military realises that taking money out of the pockets of many poor afghanis by focussing on destroying the poppy crop is not the way to win hearts and minds. The Afghanis govt is pissed about this, because it is ineffective, and it doesnt want to be the fall guy!
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer has said NATO is not planning to play a leading role in the fight against narcotics in Afghanistan...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/

The opium is coming from the southern provinces precisely because there is no control there. Presumably either the Taliban dont have control either or need to raise money for ammunition somehow, despite there dislike for opium in general when they were in full control.

Re: Spring general election?
 

It's not reasonable to say that, because the west tried to conquer
Afghanistan in the past and failed, it has a responsibility to try again to do so now. We'll fail again, and again, how many failures would satisfy that "duty" ?

Re: Spring general election?
 

It's centuries, not 30 years, and we can't fix it. We can only send soldiers to die there.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Which is something Duceppe will probably not let Harper allow to happen if the soldiers in question are from Quebec.

<tries, probably in vain, to drag thread back onto topic>

Re: Spring general election?
 

Making the war a big issue in Quebec but perhaps not in the rest of the country. I don't know what the big issue in Ontario would be, not soft wood lumber, that's for sure.

Re: Spring general election?
 

You guys are all very opinionated about this. Pity none of you know that Canada is not in Afghanistan as a result of a UN resolution, but rather as a result of NATO invoking the collective defence clause after 911.

Re: Spring general election?
 

I think we are all well aware that Canada's UN days are long gone.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Well, to return to the thread title, one can hope only until spring.

Re: Spring general election?
 

Fair enough, I think the UN recognised it some time in Jan 2002? The point being there was a broad international agreement that something should be done, albeit one lead by the US.

I dont think canadas UN days are numbered, it just seems the UN itself has no great purpose now its not a playground for the USA and USSR to clash in. It desperately needs a makeover!

Anyway, i cant see any of this triggering an election right now.

Re: Spring general election?
 

I do. Quite apart from the fact that Canada has limited military resources, now being stretched to breaking point in Afghanistan with nothing spare for UN work, the image of peacemaker is now gone. Canadian troops are in Afghanistan to kill people, let's not kid ourselves about that.

As for if and when an election comes, we can only speculate. Which is what I was doing when I started the thread.

<desperately looks for a way to combine "Gilles Duceppe" and "Bloc Heater">

Re: Spring general election?
 

SC resolution 1453 (2002) simply stated that the UN would "remain seized with the situation" in Afghanistan. In other words, recognizing a fait accomplis.