Aviator

I don't have anybody waiting to not get an answer right now.

Alan2005

Your analogy doesn't really work. Cars have a sticker price which is negotiated around - you don't see 'make an offer' written on a new merc. Of course salary is negotiable, but the job ad should set expectations in most ordinary lines of work.

Canadian ideas of courtesy aren't that different to the UK and as far as I know it is as rude to ignore people here as it is there. I've discussed this with cradles, and they all think it's rude as well, they will complain about it just as much as brits. Just because it is expected doesn't give it the same status as a sacred cultural observance. Although obviously if you are busy curing cancer or something important then you can be forgiven for not spending the time being courteous. However for most it's simple because they cannot be bothered.

canadian_critic

Thanks for all the supportive and constructive responses. I think I might have misjudged a few things about the employment market and processes in Canada, as well as how people might respond to my original post here. Despite the research there's a hell of a lot of luck involved. And I've had some good and some bad over all. But like cash flow, it's the timing that matters, and for me all the bad luck has occurred at the worst time.

I should add that my first job in Canada was through previously working for the same company in Europe on contract, and really working the system to the point that they offered me a post in Vancouver and even gave me the opportunity to create my own job as it was a new opportunity. It didn't work out and I beat myself up over it for a year (not literally of course), before finding that they dumped about 80% of their more experienced people when the company sold months after I joined.

All the opportunities I've had here have been through networking and complex strategizing. For example, I'm presently negotiating to take on clients of another previous employer, as they've refocused on what their company does, and if I don't allow me to look after their current clients, they'll lose them to their competition. My strategy and selling point here was to confirm my affiliation with them and say they will hang on to their legacy clients without having to service them. And this is moving ahead albeit slowly.

I also have an interview (by phone) for this afternoon, so we'll see what happens there. I mean it's not that I'm not getting interviews, and in fact I normally excel in such situations, and this one is right up my street. But since becoming a single Dad, I found that companies weren't quite as open-minded to this situation as I would have thought, and I feel I might have blown a few opportunities by even mentioning this, whereas perhaps I was hoping they might think it was a good thing. Although I don't bother mentioning this any more, just in case.

JonboyE

This I agree with. As long as you are available for work as and when expected your home situation is not relevant to a job interview.

el_richo

I agree. The analogy of the car doesn't work. The car itself has an expected value whereas many jobs do not.

Example: A car has to have certain criteria for the buyer, of which a number cars fit the bill. Without a clear value evident, how would the buyer know which aligns with price expectations.

Same applies to jobs. My line of work in the UK is as varied as that in Canada, salary wise. Most job specs are fairly consistent but to differentiate between the higher end and lower end jobs, they tend to use the rate/salary as an indicator. Without this indicator who knows what the level of job is or the rate/salary expectations are.

That said, this is my view and my profession. Not sure about others so i could be way off for other people.

canadian_critic

Yeah and I think it shafts the company down the road anyway. What happens if I apply to company A and B. A ignores me but B hires me. Funnily enough B is a customer of A and guess what, new hire harry is now responsible for this relationship. Unlikely to be personally in that situation but this lil example is indicative of why it's not just unethical and rude, but potentially risky.

And as you say just because it's accepted practise doesn't make it right, or preclude it from changing.

Bali2010

CC - sorry it hasn't picked up for you since the last time i read a post.

My expectations were 'managed' v much by my family's experience, and even if my app is successful, am not counting chickens until I can have more confidence in the job market, though at the moment in my field there isn't a whole lot in the uk either if looking for more than the status quo.

el_richo

+1

canadian_critic

Yeah well we're both pilots and therefore understand that some of our licensing privileges carry over and others we have to do again. In fact I fully understand 'West Coast Experience' in the context of flight. I mean I could learn to fly in Amsterdam and then move over to Vancouver and inadvertently plough a floatplane straight into a mountain or a bridge. But in most cases Canadian Work Experience or worse West Coast experience just sounds a bit too much like racism to me, for a majority of work where it doesn't make an ounce of difference.

canadian_critic

Actually I would never do that, and my comment was really intended to dissuade responses along the lines of 'eyes-roll... here we go again'. I realise that my experience has been negative but I'm not out to cast a shadow on people's dreams, just to give some potential immigrants something to think of which relates to an actual example (which is why this post started elsewhere).

helcat12

You have had some bad luck which has got you down and some pretty serious changes seem to have come into your life. It is understandable to be a bit uncertain at times like these and we all make mistakes or misread situations when we are overwhelmed. You sound much better now, from what I can tell and I hope things begin to look brighter for you from now on. Good Luck!

JonboyE

On the salary thing, I find that if you advertise a job with a salary between $60,000 and $80,000 you get:

a) a load of applicants who are worth $40,000 a year who say they will do it for $60,000

b) a load of applicants worth $60,000 a year who say they will do it for $80,000

c) no applicants worth $80,000 a year because they are too busy applying for jobs advertised at $100,000 +

If, instead, I advertise a job by describing the skills needed and outcomes expected I get applications from people with these skills who want to achieve the outcomes I need. Agreeing a mutually satisfactory salary is the least painful part of the recruitment process.

At least this way I don't need to send emails to all the a) and b) applicants saying, in effect, who's plonker do you think you are pulling?

el_richo

I agree this works adequately for many professions. Unfortunately for mine, not so much. Plus, as i have experienced, myself and the employer have been way out on what i want paying to achieve the outcomes wanted. For example, the difference in spec and requirements of 2 jobs was negligible. The difference in rate wasn't. Funnily enough, the less attractive of the 2 was still advertised for a while after i'd began working at the other.

Booooooo

That said, agencies in Canada who keep the client/employer secret in the initial advert do occasionally put the salary/rate. Which is nice.

As for the reply, or lack thereof, to applicants. I'm not that fussed to be honest. If i don't hear within a few weeks after the closing date i'll deem it as failed so move on and forget about it. If they do get back to me later on, bonus.

I do agree about that a mutually satisfactory salary is the least painful part of the recruitment process. I'd still rather know the employers interpretation of a satisfactory range before i spent time within the process.

Still, it is what it is and we have to work with it, rightly or wrongly.

Aviator

I am not unsympathetic of your plight. Good luck with the interview this afternoon.

In the context of flight, wherever you learned to fly; if you don't have a float endorsement, stay off floats, if you think you may plow into a bridge or mountain, please stay on the ground. They are both pretty sizeable and not hard to miss.

2008orbust

"Samuel Goldwyn had a less golf related (and therefore more socially acceptable) version long before either."

talk about a sports snob . . .

scouser though - say no more