Hudman

I've got an 'orrible feeling that people around the 40 mark, that grew up in urban Britain of the late 70's will forever have the link to skinheads having little lapel badges of the cross of St George, usually accompanied by a US confederate flag.
It meant only one thing back then....right wing trouble.
Even when I lived in West Yorkshire , 20 years later, it surprised me to see Asian mini-cab drivers brandishing the flags during the world cup.

Grah

I am 45 and couldn't give a fig about what skin'eads or any other group wore or uses.

If people want to tarnish a whole nation and culture based on a few then that seems mightly like a RACIST remark.

Or is it only racist when a comment comes for a non-minority? (Which is an oxymoron as white is the minority skin colour in the world)

Hudman

I don't think its a matter of the whole nation being tarnished the fact remains that prior to the second coming of the skin'ead the flag of St George was not in common usage.
It may also depend where you grew up in England, as I said unfortunately the flag got hijacked and had only one meaning.
This is a personal experience and like I said things are changing in terms of its perceived meaning.

Grah

so what are you doing to change it for the good?

Hudman

Dont know what you mean, may be having the part of my brain that remembers getting the odd kicking from right wing skins of the 70's may help?

Grah

Then perhaps you've allowed them to win and you've accepted their status to be legitmate.

Do you associate Dr Marten boots, Jeans and all people with short hair with the same feeling?
if not then, then don't blame the flag blame the morons that abuse it.

Bleech

Hudman

Grah
This association for myself, and I suspect a lot of folks my age is really unfortunate. I think it is a shame our national flag causes so much controversy these days with the politically correct lobby in the UK.
I can only think these politicians who get upset about the use of the flag maybe also witnessed it as an ensign for the NF, BM, Combat 18 and all the other morons.
Its a real shame but to be fair I cant recall the Cross of St George being used by the masses to a great extent, the jubilee of '77 featured the Union Jack if I recall ?. So to some extent in terms of popular English culture the far right got there first and made it their own (at least for a generation)
So I dont really know why we allowed it to get hijacked in such a destructive way.
As for the Doc Martins and short hair, I am an advocate. Funnily enough I think #1/#0 as a hairstyle have transcended the right wing Skin'ead image

Grah

Brillant

Hudman

Nice sentiment, but a little naive. Its actually very similar to a Nazi inspired early NF patch.."Proud to be white"

The issue here is about how a lot of Brits relate to our national flag, not what it should represent.

Bleech

Proud to be white???? Nothing to do with that, it's proud to be English.

Hudman

I am not suggesting that you are proud to be white, green or blue.
I am just pointing out my first impression of the design being very similar to a patch doing the rounds in NF circles in the 70's. Which itself was inspired by Nazi paraphernalia.
Its a shame about the flag. but it was hijacked by the NF and others quite effectively, bit like some designer labels and chavs.

yonk

But wasn't it because the UK passport was "harmonised" to fit in with the EC (or whatever it's called at the moment? Hence all the translations on it and not specific country references, see Euro notes for same idea??

daft batty

i think you are right about reclaiming the flag, and to a large extent that is happening - i see many english flags being flown outside houses these days, a few went up after the jubilee and or world cup i think and never came down.

As archers we always go to a st georges day shoot where everyone is encouraged to wear the flag, its fun, makes you united- whatever colour or creed as being english isnt exclusive to white christians.

There are some local pubs who celebrate st georges day and I do have a little rant when our lcoal tescos celebrates St Patricks day and not st georges

Tangram

Never really thought of it as a racist flag ... ever

But then, unlike our North American cosuins, I have never felt the need to fly any sort of flag.

Heard something the other day that US foreign policy had achieved its aim of uniting the world.....the rest of the world has the same flag as the US.... just with flames added to it It did make me chuckle.

However, back to topic, never felt the shame of England conquering a 1/3 of the world and then giving it back with the addition of railways, infrastructure, legal systems etc so I don't think I will start now.

Paul.