lcar

First, some background. We have been living in North Bay, in north eastern Ontario, for about a year and a half. It is a town of around 53,000. The town itself is definitely not picturesque, but it has a pleasant waterfront onto Lake Nipissing, which is quite pretty. It also has the more scenic, smaller (and much deeper) Trout Lake, where there are a lot of water sports. In winter, both lakes are covered in ice huts and snow mobiles. The town has the basics - Sears, Walmart, a Galaxy cinema with about 6 screens, a small theatre/ band venue, two swimming pools (YMCA and RAF base), running/ cycling/ snow mobile trails, 3 rinks (one with 2 pads), and a small ski hill (Laurentian). The bush around the town is scenic, and you can be in pretty deep bush within 10 minutes or so. It is a good town for outdoor activities.
The minor hockey teams do fairly well in the north, but are usually slaughtered by the southern teams. I guess there just aren't enough children to pick from.
The highest senior hockey teams are Jr A (Trappers - apparently 19th in Ontario at the moment) and varsity (Lakers).
The property taxes are high, and the property prices are high. $6000 is a pretty average annual property tax bill, and you can't buy much for less than $275,000 - and that is a fairly small 4 bed house in the locality of one of the better schools but with no garden to speak of.
There seems to be a problem with illiteracy in North Bay (I volunteered at the Literacy Council for 6 months, so I have first hand experience of that).
There is also a bit of a problem with mental illness - since the psychiatric hospital closed down, a lot of patients now live in vaguely sheltered accommodation and wander round down town most of the time. It can be quite nerve-wracking.
There is a wide mix of English-Canadian, French-Canadian and native here. The English-Canadians don't like the French-Canadians, and vice versa.
There isn't much crime, but there have been several 'jumpings' since the beginning of summer - attacks from behind where the victim is punched and kicked and purse/ ipod/ whatever is snatched.
Most people who live in North Bay have always lived in North Bay. They grew up here, went to high school here, went to Nipissing University or Canadore College, married their high school partners and brought up their families here.
My daughter's high school teacher questioned whether England was in Europe when we arrived - in fact she handed out a detention to a child who argued that England is indeed in Europe.
There aren't many jobs here (about 50 jobs listed per week is average, most in Tim Hortons, MacDonalds, or mining).
This whole scenario worries me. I am wondering if North Bay is something of a black hole - once you enter, you don't leave.
I have 4 children from age 8-15 who are on the high side of averagely intelligent, and who up until now had the normal ambitions of going to university in Toronto/ Kingston/ UK and studying to be a vet/ engineer/ NHL player
Is my judgement being clouded by our difficult situation (I have not been able to get a job, so far)? Is the North Bay mentality/ way of life normal, or should we run for our lives? And if so, where to in Ontario?

iaink

Belleville is a similar size but not as isolated. IMO some of what you describe is normal for a small town, but some is more related to the isolation.. Your kids are lucky that you have seen more of the world and perhaps have different expectations to the North Bay lifers. It need not be a black hole for everyone.

Hopefully that teacher no longer thinks England is not part of Europe, but lets face it, there are plenty of UK politicians who would like to argue that too...


Property prices there are high compared to where I am, but then I guess it costs a bit to get building materials up there. Presumably there is a lot of snow to clear and a limited tax base to pay for it, hence the suprisingly high property taxes. Around here closer to $2-3k is the norm, only the big fancy houses in the more expensive areas of town would be up at the $6k level.

The fact that people are wed to the area can be a positive, it adds to the sense of community and people pull together to make it a better place rather then not giving a shit because they dont see themselves sticking around long. That I guess is part of my attraction to small town life here. On the flip side there is a lot of ignorance of the larger world, but if you are happy where you are and have no plans or need to go elsewhere, why would you feel the need to be clued up on people and places you dont care about.

MikeUK

It quite normal for isolated places to disconnect form the rest of world, this isn’t unique to Canada, just more common because of the size of the place…
Small town mindsets exist where the distance to what we’d probably consider main stream (read big city for North America) become to big for a normal day visit.

IMHO unless it’s what you looking for, it one of the major drawbacks in North America, and yes they do tend to be a black hole the local culture doesn’t normally encourage exploration and diversity much more inward looking and a tendancy to stick to teh old ways, those that do leave don’t tend to return

Hawk13

+3 that's normal.

Don't forget the Americans think we all live in igloos and not all teachers are rocket scientists

bats

Normal, but maybe more widespread in North Bay. I'm often amazed by the lack of world knowledge. I've also met people who think the UK isn't part of Europe, I decided that the meant mainland Europe but now I'm wondering!

Hawk13

That's what I always figured that some people ae splitting hairs and they mean that UK isn't physically in Europe but is part of Europe

iaink

Part of Europe, but separate from it in so many ways....

Dashie

Sounds very like St Thomas in many ways. Definitely the literacy thing, and we walk past 2 'survivors of Elgin mental health' type drop in centres and a meth clinic on the main street here. Even though we're half an hour from London, there is still a lot of insular thinking and people who were born here and will live here until they die. It sounds like North Bay is a bit bigger though and has more to do.

dbd33

Sounds very like Toronto. I think Canada is very parochial but inevitably so, it's a long way from anywhere and people don't get time off to go anyway else anyway.

mandymoochops

Sounds just like Drumheller / Stettler! (albeit on a slightly larger scale).

I've given up trying to explain England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Europe.

But I suppose if a local is never really going to go there, why would they learn the ins and outs of it - as has been said on previous thread apparently most have issues telling the difference between pyjama bottoms and trousers

Oink

This seems to be pretty representative of all but a few cities in Canada. I think the rule of thumb is if it doesn't have a Nando's then its shit.

Steve_

Sounds worse than an equivalent town in Alberta, e.g. Lethbridge.

You know when you're living somewhere remote in Canada because most of the hotel cleaning staff are white.

You know you're living somewhere really remote in Canada because the hotel cleaning staff are First Nations and you live in the hotel.

You know you're living somewhere really remote in Canada when there is no hotel.

curleytops

Sounds exactly where I grew up in NW Ontario. I bet a good half the kids there hardly ever got past the railway tracks at the edge of town. There was a saying about it..."if you're not into hunting or fishing, snowmobiling or boating and you don't drink or do drugs then you're depressed!" I won't name names but it was nicknamed "The Choke" as in it choked the life out of you.

PzFus

I don't think your judgement is being clouded, because small-townitis is a well recognised Canadian infliction. But it would be worth considering whether things would be any different if you were back in a small industrial town back in the UK (I know I'm trying to think of one too!)

I certainly know one big difference would be that the opportunities for the children would not be any where near as good. Even with small-townitis the opportunities are there to be taken. Another would be that people wouldn't be getting bounced they'd be getting worse.

There are plenty of opportunities to get away from the small-townitis of North Bay, but you and your partner (and the children) need to be in agreement and need to have a list of priorities that you want to achieve by moving. What comes first, employment security or stability and education for the children?

There does need to be a degree of employment security irrespective of your priorities - so look for jobs first, then move - possibly after one of you has already started work in the new location.

Also be realistic - is North Bay where you want to stay for the rest of your life? Probably not. So start planning a timeline which allows you to achieve immediate short term goals - such as you getting a job and saving money towards a new house, whilst planning for the long term goal such as moving to the Ottawa valley.

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, and you are already well into your journey because you are here in Canada.

Good luck and keep us posted.

davidsk

This reminds me about the film Pleasantville http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120789/.

[the geography teacher uses a pointer to demonstrate, on the classroom blackboard, the world of Pleasantville, which consists of Elm Street, Main Street, and the Town Hall]
Miss Peters: Last week, class, we discussed the geography of Main Street. This week we're going to be talking about Elm Street. Now, can anyone tell me the difference between Elm Street and Main Street? Tommy.
Tommy: It's not as long?
Miss Peters: That's right, Tommy, it's not as long. Also, it only has houses, so the geography of Main Street is different than the geography of Elm Street.
[Jennifer is frowning in bewilderment. She raises her hand]
Miss Peters: Mary Sue!
Jennifer: Yeah. What's outside of Pleasantville?
[the entire class turns to look at her]
Miss Peters: I don't understand.
Jennifer: Outside of Pleasantville? Like, what's at the end of Main Street?
Miss Peters: [chuckles and shakes her head] Mary Sue. You should know the answer to that! The end of Main Street is just the beginning again.
[the teacher points at the intersection of Elm and Main. The class feels released to giggle at Jennifer/Mary Sue's clearly stupid question, and Jennifer frowns again]