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Should I go back or stick it out?

Should I go back or stick it out?

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Old Oct 11th 2008, 2:17 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Thank you Judy for those articles...generally where I have emailed, then it is in keeping with the instructions in the paper/site on which the job is advertised and to date, no one has responded anyway!

Its clear to me that I need to be more prepared if I am going to return and work here in Vancouver - so maybe that is what I am taking from this experience right now and hopefully will do something positive with it whilst back in the UK..yes, a very sobering experience so far!
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 2:36 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by pammiej
Thank you everybody - it is so heartening to have so many responses and so much genuine concern. I couldn't wait to get on line this morning as I was hoping I would have had some replies all of which are duly noted and appreciated.

I am looking at my return home purely as a break for right now - I will dip my toe in the employment market to see what, if anything is available as should my husband fail to get a job, then I do not see that we have a choice but to return permanantly...at least here, we have our home albeit our tenants don't ever want to move out - and I have ringfenced the money to ensure that we can ship everything back (parents are wonderful things!)

However, the bigger part of me wants to make a go of it in Canada - I always wanted to give it two years - unfortunately thats about the length of time it will take me to requalify so the question arises do I really want to requalify in this particular job/ If we are looking ata new life, then why not a new career so you can see why I am finding it difficult to make a decision, I don't really know what I want. My husband wants to stay and make a go of it but ultimately accepts that his home is where we all are and if Canada is not financially viable for us, then it can't be here right now.

But I think that my view is coloured by what has happened in the last few months in terms of his employment, my lack of employment etc. I want to make this return trip purely for my own reasons - ie reinforce the reasons we left in the first place, view it from a different perspective and then I will return in March to make a decision about whether or not we want to stay - hopefully in that time my husband will have found the job of his dreams or if not, at least a job to get by on and I will be better placed to get a job as my daughter can go into nursery (she should be toilet trained by then).

Talking this through with all of you has made it clear to me that no choice is going to be an easy one especially the long term decision that will need to be made at some point and whether that is influenced by my homesickness or finances, time will tell..

Poppy we are in Surrey Vancouver right now which probably isn't really helping me adjust to life as it is quite an insular community and being from England, I am used to wider diversity of people so yes, its probably a case of finding where we 'fit' and then adapting to it....so I think the next few months are going to be crucial in terms of our long term goals and I will be keeping you all posted...Sans, it would be nice to hear from you as you have made the move back and I just want to know what your personal experiences of the return have been - maybe you could PM...thank you all again
Hi Pammie

What part of Surrey are you in? Are you in rented or did you buy?
We are in Langley (next bit over, to the east) and if you want to get out and about and see a (slightly) different area how about meeting up for a coffee next week?? As another stay@home mom, I know being stuck in can make you go a little stir-crazy!

Best wishes
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 2:37 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by pammiej
generally where I have emailed, then it is in keeping with the instructions in the paper/site on which the job is advertised and to date, no one has responded anyway!
Canadian employers generally are not in the habit of communicating with unsuccessful candidates. In fact their advertisements often say that they will contact only the candidates in whom they are interested.

I don't suppose that's any consolation to you. But I just wanted to point out to you, if you weren't already aware of it, that that's the culture here. So I wanted to be sure that you weren't taking it personally (not that that necessarily helps if you want a job and haven't been successful in landing one yet).

It is true that you should not disobey the instructions when you respond to an advertisement. It really ticks employers off when the people who respond to their ads don't follow the instructions.

On the other hand, how does anyone know that you saw an ad in the paper? You could be phoning on spec, so to speak. Someone might have mentioned XYZ corporation to you. How do they have any way of knowing that that isn't the case?

So you phone the company that had the ad in the paper or on a website, but you don't mention the ad. Then the person who speaks with you may say, "Well, as it happens, we're looking for someone to fill Such And Such Position right now. Why don't you send in your resume?"

The difference now is that this person knows your name, and he/she may pay a little more attention to your resume when he/she receives it.

But you also should not be using ads as your main source of information about job openings. If you seriously want a job, you should be networking. The process of networking is explained in the Wiki articles.

As I said before, the information in the Wiki also may be useful for your husband. Obviously he's capable of finding a job in Canada, because he found one before. It's a shame that that employer was a heel. But your husband proved that he was able to secure employment in Canada. Still, the information in the Wiki may show him more avenues that he could pursue, some of which he may not have thought of. Also, now that he's job hunting on the ground rather than from overseas, it will be more feasible for him to check out any employer who was to offer him a job at this point. Hopefully that would increase his chances of finding a genuinely decent employer the next time around.

In any event, I wish you both the best in finding a way forward.
x
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 4:04 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Hey Pammie,
I have a British LLB and I am a qualified Canadian lawyer and I feel for you. As Almost Canadian will tell you, trying to qualify in Canada as a foreign trained lawyer is an outrageous joke but it can be done with hard work and moxy.
Having said that and as a stop gap measure I would suggest you and try and get a job in the Canadian business world as a Contract Analysis.
As an example, here in Calgary, Oil and Gas companies are always looking for people to draft and review contracts and no doubt you would fit the bill.
Hopefully in Vancouver, there are industries that can use your particular skill set.

Cheers,
Hart
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 11:43 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by pammiej
I guess, my actual question is should I even go back now and risk wanting the familiarity and comfort of the UK or should I just stick it out for another six to eighteen months to be able to make a reasoned decision as to whether we can stay?
hi......oh gosh! what a dilema you are in....

i picked out the above sentence from your thread as this one alone stood out to me....i personally think that this is the cruix of your dilema; i think your having a touch of the 'homesickness'...missing family, friends and familia surroundings. i'm not even in canada yet but i already regognise that at some point, this will happen to me and my family......it's quite normal and personally, i think you should get on the plane, come back to the uk for a break, see your family, friends etc....BUT, get back on the plane to canada, give it some more time and see how you feel......

i've always said to oh, if things are that bad when we go (which i'm comfortable to know may happen) then we can return to the uk and start again......however, i'm prepared to give life in canada a real good go, learn the culture, make friends etc and be patient with myself and my feelings......i'm 46 and lived in the uk all my life (have travelled lots though) but in truth, the uk dosen't feel like 'home' anymore so my heart is already away from here......

enjoy your time with your uk family but remember your family in canada too, they deserve a good go.......good luck. xx
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 4:59 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Hi Pammie,

Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time of it at the moment. Personally I would keep the amount of money needed to return home to one side and keep trying to make things work until you are in danger of having to use that money and lose the option.

I can tell you though that this is a very bad time in the UK for property lawyers and know of many redundancies and office closures in this area. So it is not a good time to try to get a job in this field in the UK at present.

I haven't read anything of your situation other than in this thread, but if you are used to a professional life to find your self at home with a little one, especially when you are isolated from family can be really difficult wherever you are. (Though kids are a great way to meet people). Had you planned to work, study or be a stay at home mum when you moved there?

It sounds like you are in a pretty expensive and insular area - have you and your other half looked at jobs in Canada outside of your current location?

My husband is a lawyer and we know all about how difficult re training can be. He is still undecided whether to go through all that pain or whether to start afresh.

Only you and your husband can decide what is best for you, as for anyone who criticises you for going or staying, you will know you have tried to make a change for the better for your family. Hopefully things will start to look up soon. Best of luck to you both.
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 6:08 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Most of the lawyers I work with (up and down the Highway to Vancouver) complain that there are too many lawyers in this area. Some are (shock horror) now taking on my legal aid clients, just to keep their incomes up. Competition for work amongst locally qualified candidates appears to be fierce...not a situation I would like to be contemplating as an incomer. I wish the OP well, not least with being a stay at home Mom in these circumstances. It must be a huge transition from respected professional to complete isolation in Surrey. Kids are a good way to meet other Mom's, if you like to attend those nightmarish toddler groups . Sometimes that is not what people are looking for, however. While there is nothing wrong with these social gatherings, I would rather slit my throat than sit through an hour and a half of screaming kids and scarily competitive Mom's comparing their latest gadgets and camping trips.
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 10:54 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Canadian employers generally are not in the habit of communicating with unsuccessful candidates. In fact their advertisements often say that they will contact only the candidates in whom they are interested.

I don't suppose that's any consolation to you. But I just wanted to point out to you, if you weren't already aware of it, that that's the culture here. So I wanted to be sure that you weren't taking it personally
It's a complete pain in the butt though, and very rude, in my opinion. If somebody has taken the trouble to reply to what is basically an invitation, it really wouldn't take much effort to thank them for their interest and tell them the position has been filled (or whatever). As it is, how long does one wait before deciding the application was unsuccessful? Canadian employers are SOOOOOoooooo slow to respond anyway. How do you know when the slowly turning wheels have actually ground to a halt?

I guess you can alway call and ask, but that's probably frowned upon too!

I was eventually offered a job I'd applied for, and wanted, some weeks after I'd already accepted something else. I felt I was strung along and strung along, and I just couldn't wait any longer. I even did call to remind them I was still waiting, and was told my application had slipped down their "things to do list" as they'd been so busy!!!! :curse:
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 11:21 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by Morwenna
It's a complete pain in the butt though, and very rude, in my opinion. If somebody has taken the trouble to reply to what is basically an invitation, it really wouldn't take much effort to thank them for their interest and tell them the position has been filled (or whatever). As it is, how long does one wait before deciding the application was unsuccessful? Canadian employers are SOOOOOoooooo slow to respond anyway. How do you know when the slowly turning wheels have actually ground to a halt?

I guess you can alway call and ask, but that's probably frowned upon too!

I was eventually offered a job I'd applied for, and wanted, some weeks after I'd already accepted something else. I felt I was strung along and strung along, and I just couldn't wait any longer. I even did call to remind them I was still waiting, and was told my application had slipped down their "things to do list" as they'd been so busy!!!! :curse:
Totally agree, it doesn't end with just ignoring resumes and emails either. OH would ring companies up and they would tell him how interested they were and that they would definitely ring him back.........And then nothing Its soul destroying.
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 11:28 pm
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by Morwenna
It's a complete pain in the butt though, and very rude, in my opinion. If somebody has taken the trouble to reply to what is basically an invitation, it really wouldn't take much effort to thank them for their interest and tell them the position has been filled (or whatever). As it is, how long does one wait before deciding the application was unsuccessful? Canadian employers are SOOOOOoooooo slow to respond anyway. How do you know when the slowly turning wheels have actually ground to a halt?

I guess you can alway call and ask, but that's probably frowned upon too!

I was eventually offered a job I'd applied for, and wanted, some weeks after I'd already accepted something else. I felt I was strung along and strung along, and I just couldn't wait any longer. I even did call to remind them I was still waiting, and was told my application had slipped down their "things to do list" as they'd been so busy!!!! :curse:
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Morwenna. I consider this custom to be a negative feature of Canada.

But I think it's helpful to warn prospective migrants of it. On the other hand, I'm not sure if foreigners can appreciate the implications until they get here.

Originally Posted by Morwenna
Totally agree, it doesn't end with just ignoring resumes and emails either. OH would ring companies up and they would tell him how interested they were and that they would definitely ring him back.........And then nothing Its soul destroying.
I hear you; really I do.

But I witnessed something in Calgary that I thought was even worse than that. A Chinese MBA graduate came into the company for which I worked for an interview. My boss told her that he wanted to see an example of her work, so that he could assess whether or not she would be useful to the company. He said that he would like to test her by giving her a hypothetical case study to work on. She took the assignment home, worked on it, and delivered it to the company. It wasn't a hypothetical case study at all. It was a case study that a client had commissioned my employer to do. He turned around, gave the Chinese MBA graduate's to his client, charged the client for it, and didn't hire the Chinese MBA graduate after all. I was so unhappy at that company, and not just because of what they did to the Chinese MBA graduate. Man, was I glad to get out of there.

Oh yes, perhaps I should clarify that the MBA graduate was not just ethnically Chinese. If she'd been a Chinese Canadian, I wouldn't have mentioned her ethnicity. What I meant was that she was a newly arrived immigrant from China. I think that, although she was very intelligent in some ways (based on the excellent case study she did), she may not have been as street smart as a native Canadian would have been. That probably goes some way to explaining why my boss managed to take advantage of her. But my point is that most newly arrived immigrants are at something of a disadvantage, because they don't know how things work here.
x

Last edited by Judy in Calgary; Oct 11th 2008 at 11:33 pm. Reason: Added clarification.
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Old Oct 11th 2008, 11:43 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Morwenna. I consider this custom to be a negative feature of Canada.

But I think it's helpful to warn prospective migrants of it. On the other hand, I'm not sure if foreigners can appreciate the implications until they get here.


I hear you; really I do.

But I witnessed something in Calgary that I thought was even worse than that. A Chinese MBA graduate came into the company for which I worked for an interview. My boss told her that he wanted to see an example of her work, so that he could assess whether or not she would be useful to the company. He said that he would like to test her by giving her a hypothetical case study to work on. She took the assignment home, worked on it, and delivered it to the company. It wasn't a hypothetical case study at all. It was a case study that a client had commissioned my employer to do. He turned around, gave the Chinese MBA graduate's to his client, charged the client for it, and didn't hire the Chinese MBA graduate after all. I was so unhappy at that company, and not just because of what they did to the Chinese MBA graduate. Man, was I glad to get out of there.

Oh yes, perhaps I should clarify that the MBA graduate was not just ethnically Chinese. If she'd been a Chinese Canadian, I wouldn't have mentioned her ethnicity. What I meant was that she was a newly arrived immigrant from China. I think that, although she was very intelligent in some ways (based on the excellent case study she did), she may not have been as street smart as a native Canadian would have been. That probably goes some way to explaining why my boss managed to take advantage of her. But my point is that most newly arrived immigrants are at something of a disadvantage, because they don't know how things work here.
x
Yes i think you are very right in saying that lots of us dont realise and that we are at a disadvantage..........we certainly was.
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Old Oct 12th 2008, 3:57 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

I work(ed) in the public sector in the UK, and it is common practice not to acknowledge or respond to applications. This is always specified in the advertisement material. But the difference is that there is always a set closing date, and usually the interview date is given as well. That means it is fairly easy to know when you haven't been successful. It is a bit disheatening, but that's how it is (and has been for many years). The difference I noticed in Canada is that posts are quite often listed as "open until filled". That means you have no idea when your application might be looked at, and it feels a lot more dismissive (in the UK generally the post has been filled by someone else, presumably better suited, whereas in Canada it feels like they are just still looking).

Because of the way that the Canadian health sector works it is not possible to ring the person recruiting (all numbers given are HR departments), but my husband has his current job opportunity because he rang the recruiter even though the bumf specifically said not to. It was for a job he was well qualified which had been up for a bit, but he couldn't apply because the application design blocked out of Canada applicants. The agent was unaware of this, and a few weeks later my husband was offered the job (with relocaion costs included).

So I think it is worth pursuing things provided that you really do fit the criteria of what people are looking for. I also think that recruiters around the world are inclined to give people the run around at least a bit. They just want lots of candidates, so you have to bear in mind they will always give you a positive spin.
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Old Oct 12th 2008, 5:10 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by pammiej
Some of you may know me from other threads in which, most recently I poured my heart and basically looked for empathy/sympathy about our recent situation..in a nutshell, my OH and I moved over in may with our 18 month old..I gave up a decent career as a property lawyer to be a stay at home mum whilst OH pursued what seemed like a really good job opportunity. Of course, he got shafted after six months, we are rapidly running out of money and life just seemed like it couldn't get any worse last week...hence the emotional outburst on another BE thread.

So my dilemma is this...I have a return ticket for 25th october which I have, aftr much dilly dallying decided to use to go back to the UK for a 'break', see my mum and for my 2 year old to have time with her grandparents. My OH is staying here to see if he can get a job and obviously because we can't just move back as we, neither of us have jobs, home or a pot of money to return with!

My question is....will I want to come back? I know that six months is not enough time and I know that I wasn't prepared enough to deal with the reality that the Canadian job market doesn't really want another solicitor and that it is just unfortunate that my OH got shafted by his employers but what is the best thing to do? If we wait it out, I try to requalify, he carries on looking for a job and if need be takes any old job, how long should we give i before we know whether or not staying in Canada or returning to the UK is the best thing to do?

The longer we stay, the longer I have been out of the job market (ironically I left at exactly the wrong time for property lawyers!), the harder it will be to get a job, make money, pay for a container etc....get our lives back on track etc etc etc....

I guess, my actual question is should I even go back now and risk wanting the familiarity and comfort of the UK or should I just stick it out for another six to eighteen months to be able to make a reasoned decision as to whether we can stay?

Again, I know most of the answers will in the end be personal to me but this forum has just been so great in helping and giving me things to think about particuarly when I was at my lowest point - Poppy2 - thank you - that I just need some more help.
the downside of sticking it out is that you may end up in a situation where you are STUCK here - you can imagine the possibilities. When you are in a place you love and are tied to you will be more successfull and the real success in life is being happy - thats what really counts. I feel for you - good luck in your decision
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Old Oct 12th 2008, 5:35 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Pammie

Could you maybe consider another part of Canada as an option before returning back to the UK.

You are just down in your luck at the mo so everything will be emotional roller coaster. Going home when the chips are down may sway you back to the UK as you have the emotional support of your family and friends

Another thing Pammie you said that you had a great job in the UK, what made you leave it. I have excellent job in the UK, very well paid and pretty much my own boss but I moving to Canada for the lifestyle change.

Pammie only you know what is right for you and your family but please take time out to work out the positives and negatives of your current situation and what you benefit by going back to the UK.

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Last edited by KJM; Oct 12th 2008 at 5:37 pm.
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Old Oct 12th 2008, 6:09 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Should I go back or stick it out?

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Morwenna. I consider this custom to be a negative feature of Canada.
maybe an idea to include on the thread "What I don't like about Canada" as opposed to your glowing report Judes.
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