Shipping and claims for damaged products
Jan 26th 2016, 8:13 pm
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Shipping and claims for damaged products
We recently moved to Calgary and along with a standard container of belongings we shipped some alcohol. It finally arrived a couple of days ago and the entire shipment was frozen (at least once). There is significant damage, with corks popped out of many wine bottles (and screw tops buckled) and liquid stains in pretty much every box. Same with some beer and cider in the shipment. There was still ice in a few bottles.
We accepted it and pointed out on there was significant damage and sent a damage email yesterday with photos. The reply was basically "should have got additional insurance". Fine, however we were not told there was a need for additional insurance (i'm not yet sure what the additional insurance is or meant to cover) AND:
The alcohol was shipped separately as a shipment of alcohol, because liquids weren't allowed in normal containers. It went through customs (we paid duty/tax and it was inspected), they had a manifest and (I believe) this was on completely separate contract from our main shipment. Basically they knew exactly what it was and it was and the contract was for the shipment of alcohol.
My question is, this isn't just a few bottles smashed, this is quite possibly an entire shipment (worth 4 figures and several hundred bottles) trashed because it froze on the transfer over here. If we can't come to some kind of amicable solution to the issue with the shippers, is there likely to be any other avenue we can follow to get at least some of our money back? My initial thought was something related to a breach of contract, perhaps... (going through the small claims court - UK company and contract). Basically this isn't a few smashed bottles or dropped boxes, it's pretty much gross negligence and a failure on their behalf to ship it properly. I get the impression it may well have been driven through Canada for days in the middle of winter in a standard lorry (it turned up in what looked like a standard box van), or it could have been the month it sat in the customs warehouse in Montreal over christmas (probably not).
So yeah, I'm sure the shippers have every avenue covered, even for when they **** up entirely. But I'm wondering if there is any other option? At the moment I don't have all the details (I'm not dealing with the shipping company, my other half is) but I will be looking in to it now and update the post if needed.
We accepted it and pointed out on there was significant damage and sent a damage email yesterday with photos. The reply was basically "should have got additional insurance". Fine, however we were not told there was a need for additional insurance (i'm not yet sure what the additional insurance is or meant to cover) AND:
The alcohol was shipped separately as a shipment of alcohol, because liquids weren't allowed in normal containers. It went through customs (we paid duty/tax and it was inspected), they had a manifest and (I believe) this was on completely separate contract from our main shipment. Basically they knew exactly what it was and it was and the contract was for the shipment of alcohol.
My question is, this isn't just a few bottles smashed, this is quite possibly an entire shipment (worth 4 figures and several hundred bottles) trashed because it froze on the transfer over here. If we can't come to some kind of amicable solution to the issue with the shippers, is there likely to be any other avenue we can follow to get at least some of our money back? My initial thought was something related to a breach of contract, perhaps... (going through the small claims court - UK company and contract). Basically this isn't a few smashed bottles or dropped boxes, it's pretty much gross negligence and a failure on their behalf to ship it properly. I get the impression it may well have been driven through Canada for days in the middle of winter in a standard lorry (it turned up in what looked like a standard box van), or it could have been the month it sat in the customs warehouse in Montreal over christmas (probably not).
So yeah, I'm sure the shippers have every avenue covered, even for when they **** up entirely. But I'm wondering if there is any other option? At the moment I don't have all the details (I'm not dealing with the shipping company, my other half is) but I will be looking in to it now and update the post if needed.
Jan 26th 2016, 8:49 pm
#2
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
If you did not take insurance, read the contract you signed for the shipping, it pretty much hinges on that.
If there are large sums involved, consult a lawyer. Don't hold your breath though.
Insurance is available, like it is for pretty much anything. Do folks really not know about marine insurance, or just choose to try and save a few bucks?
Insurance is just that, there is only a need if something goes wrong. Is it up to the carrier to tell you how to protect your goods?
Think yourself lucky there was not a general averaging claim.
If there are large sums involved, consult a lawyer. Don't hold your breath though.
Insurance is available, like it is for pretty much anything. Do folks really not know about marine insurance, or just choose to try and save a few bucks?
Insurance is just that, there is only a need if something goes wrong. Is it up to the carrier to tell you how to protect your goods?
Think yourself lucky there was not a general averaging claim.
Jan 26th 2016, 8:52 pm
#3
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
We recently moved to Calgary and along with a standard container of belongings we shipped some alcohol. It finally arrived a couple of days ago and the entire shipment was frozen (at least once). There is significant damage, with corks popped out of many wine bottles (and screw tops buckled) and liquid stains in pretty much every box. Same with some beer and cider in the shipment. There was still ice in a few bottles. We accepted it and pointed out on there was significant damage and sent a damage email yesterday with photos. The reply was basically "should have got additional insurance". Fine, however we were not told there was a need for additional insurance (i'm not yet sure what the additional insurance is or meant to cover) AND: The alcohol was shipped separately as a shipment of alcohol, because liquids weren't allowed in normal containers. It went through customs (we paid duty/tax and it was inspected), they had a manifest and (I believe) this was on completely separate contract from our main shipment. Basically they knew exactly what it was and it was and the contract was for the shipment of alcohol. My question is, this isn't just a few bottles smashed, this is quite possibly an entire shipment (worth 4 figures and several hundred bottles) trashed because it froze on the transfer over here. If we can't come to some kind of amicable solution to the issue with the shippers, is there likely to be any other avenue we can follow to get at least some of our money back? My initial thought was something related to a breach of contract, perhaps... (going through the small claims court - UK company and contract). Basically this isn't a few smashed bottles or dropped boxes, it's pretty much gross negligence and a failure on their behalf to ship it properly. I get the impression it may well have been driven through Canada for days in the middle of winter in a standard lorry (it turned up in what looked like a standard box van), or it could have been the month it sat in the customs warehouse in Montreal over christmas (probably not). So yeah, I'm sure the shippers have every avenue covered, even for when they **** up entirely. But I'm wondering if there is any other option? At the moment I don't have all the details (I'm not dealing with the shipping company, my other half is) but I will be looking in to it now and update the post if needed.
Jan 26th 2016, 8:59 pm
#4
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
It appears insurance was taken out on all our other shipments, just not this one apparently. All the others we had no issues with.
In their terms it does state:
Shipping alcohol on standard trucks in the middle of winter - I think that's pretty much the definition of negligence IMO. Whether that would hold up in court is another matter I guess. They also state they have packed the goods for "enhanced protection", obviously not that enhanced was it...? 
That said
While that is the case, the quote clearly states it is alcohol and it has been packed for protection. Obviously the packaging was not acceptable.
I guess we shall see if we can go the negligence way and try and get the £40 per item/box (which would cover us), even though technically they don't cover perishable items (not that alcohol is particularly perishable, or should really need a climate controlled lorry).
Any opinions on that? Have I missed anything or have no chance
EDIT: And yes, the shipper is registered with the BAR and states there is the option of the Alternative Dispute Resolution, not that that will probably help either...
In their terms it does state:
8 Our liability for loss or damage
8.1 We do not know the value of Your goods therefore We limit Our liability to a fixed limit per item. The amount of liability We accept under this
agreement is reflected in Our charges for the work. If You wish Us to increase Our limit of liability per item You agree to pay a higher price for
the work as stated in Condition 1.2.11 (Our Quotation).
8.2 Unless otherwise agreed in writing if we are negligent or in breach of contract We will pay You up to £40 for each item which is lost or damaged
as a direct result of any negligence or breach of contract on Our part.
8.3 For goods destined to, or received from a place outside the United Kingdom:
8.3. 1 We will only accept liability for loss or damage
(a) arising from Our negligence or breach of contract whilst the goods are in Our physical possession, or
(b) whilst the goods are in the possession of others if the loss or damage is established to have been caused by Our failure to pack the goods to
a reasonable standard where We have been contracted to pack the goods that are subject to the claim.
8.1 We do not know the value of Your goods therefore We limit Our liability to a fixed limit per item. The amount of liability We accept under this
agreement is reflected in Our charges for the work. If You wish Us to increase Our limit of liability per item You agree to pay a higher price for
the work as stated in Condition 1.2.11 (Our Quotation).
8.2 Unless otherwise agreed in writing if we are negligent or in breach of contract We will pay You up to £40 for each item which is lost or damaged
as a direct result of any negligence or breach of contract on Our part.
8.3 For goods destined to, or received from a place outside the United Kingdom:
8.3. 1 We will only accept liability for loss or damage
(a) arising from Our negligence or breach of contract whilst the goods are in Our physical possession, or
(b) whilst the goods are in the possession of others if the loss or damage is established to have been caused by Our failure to pack the goods to
a reasonable standard where We have been contracted to pack the goods that are subject to the claim.
That said
10 Exclusions of liability
10.1 We shall not be liable for loss or damage caused by fire or explosion, unless we have been negligent or in breach of contract. It is Your
responsibility to insure Your Goods. If You ask Us in writing to arrange insurance cover for You We will, provided You declare the full
replacement value of Your Goods and pay the premium in advance.
10.2 We shall not be liable for delays or failures to provide the services under this Agreement as a result of war, invasion, acts of foreign enemies,
hostilities (whether war is declared or not), civil war, terrorism, rebellion and/or military coup, Act of God, adverse weather, third party industrial
action, re-scheduled sailing, departure or arrival times, port congestion, or other such events outside our reasonable control.
10.3 Other than as a result of Our negligence or breach of contract We will not be liable for any loss, damage or failure to produce the goods as a
result of:
10.3.1 Normal wear and tear, natural or gradual deterioration, leakage or evaporation or from perishable or unstable goods. This includes goods left
within furniture or appliances.
10.3.2 Moth or vermin or similar infestation.
10.3.3 Cleaning, repairing or restoring unless We arranged for the work to be carried out.
10.3.4 Changes caused by atmospheric conditions such as dampness, mould, mildew, rusting, tarnishing, corrosion, or gradual deterioration unless
directly linked to ingress of water.
OR
10.3.5 For any goods in wardrobes, drawers or appliances, or in a package, bundle, carton, case or other container not both packed and unpacked by
Us.
10.3.6 For electrical or mechanical derangement to any appliance, instrument, clock, computer or other equipment unless there is evidence of related
external damage.
10.3.7 For any goods which have a pre-existing defect or are inherently defective.
10.3.8 For perishable items and/or those requiring a controlled environment.
10.3.9 Loss of structural integrity of furniture constructed of particle board resulting from crumbling of the board.
10.3.10 For items referred to in Clause 4.
10.4 No employee of Ours shall be separately liable to you for any loss, damage, mis-delivery, errors or omissions under the terms of this Agreement.
10.5 Where goods are handed out from store Our liability will cease upon handing over the goods to You or Your authorised representative (see
Clause 11.1 below).
10.6 We will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by Us or Our employees or agents in circumstances where:
(a) there is no breach of this Agreement by Us or by any of Our employees or agents
(b) such loss or damage is not a reasonably foreseeable result of any such breach.
10.1 We shall not be liable for loss or damage caused by fire or explosion, unless we have been negligent or in breach of contract. It is Your
responsibility to insure Your Goods. If You ask Us in writing to arrange insurance cover for You We will, provided You declare the full
replacement value of Your Goods and pay the premium in advance.
10.2 We shall not be liable for delays or failures to provide the services under this Agreement as a result of war, invasion, acts of foreign enemies,
hostilities (whether war is declared or not), civil war, terrorism, rebellion and/or military coup, Act of God, adverse weather, third party industrial
action, re-scheduled sailing, departure or arrival times, port congestion, or other such events outside our reasonable control.
10.3 Other than as a result of Our negligence or breach of contract We will not be liable for any loss, damage or failure to produce the goods as a
result of:
10.3.1 Normal wear and tear, natural or gradual deterioration, leakage or evaporation or from perishable or unstable goods. This includes goods left
within furniture or appliances.
10.3.2 Moth or vermin or similar infestation.
10.3.3 Cleaning, repairing or restoring unless We arranged for the work to be carried out.
10.3.4 Changes caused by atmospheric conditions such as dampness, mould, mildew, rusting, tarnishing, corrosion, or gradual deterioration unless
directly linked to ingress of water.
OR
10.3.5 For any goods in wardrobes, drawers or appliances, or in a package, bundle, carton, case or other container not both packed and unpacked by
Us.
10.3.6 For electrical or mechanical derangement to any appliance, instrument, clock, computer or other equipment unless there is evidence of related
external damage.
10.3.7 For any goods which have a pre-existing defect or are inherently defective.
10.3.8 For perishable items and/or those requiring a controlled environment.
10.3.9 Loss of structural integrity of furniture constructed of particle board resulting from crumbling of the board.
10.3.10 For items referred to in Clause 4.
10.4 No employee of Ours shall be separately liable to you for any loss, damage, mis-delivery, errors or omissions under the terms of this Agreement.
10.5 Where goods are handed out from store Our liability will cease upon handing over the goods to You or Your authorised representative (see
Clause 11.1 below).
10.6 We will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by Us or Our employees or agents in circumstances where:
(a) there is no breach of this Agreement by Us or by any of Our employees or agents
(b) such loss or damage is not a reasonably foreseeable result of any such breach.
I guess we shall see if we can go the negligence way and try and get the £40 per item/box (which would cover us), even though technically they don't cover perishable items (not that alcohol is particularly perishable, or should really need a climate controlled lorry).
Any opinions on that? Have I missed anything or have no chance
EDIT: And yes, the shipper is registered with the BAR and states there is the option of the Alternative Dispute Resolution, not that that will probably help either...
Last edited by Amp34; Jan 26th 2016 at 9:02 pm.
Jan 26th 2016, 9:16 pm
#5
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
Get over it.
The import duties were likely more than the booze was worth in the first place.
Daft to have shipped it at all.
The import duties were likely more than the booze was worth in the first place.
Daft to have shipped it at all.
Jan 26th 2016, 10:15 pm
#6
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
Did you have to specify what type of alcohol it was? That may seem a strange question, but if they believed it to be spirits then possibly they didn't anticipate any of it freezing.
Unfortunately, if it was other than spirits - however you had shipped it - unless it was in an insulated container of some sort it's likely it would have frozen regardless at this time of year. "Protection" could just mean padding unless they specifically state in the invoice/quote that it will be placed in a controlled environment.
To be honest, unless you gave very specific directives to them I think you are probably SOOL.
Unfortunately, if it was other than spirits - however you had shipped it - unless it was in an insulated container of some sort it's likely it would have frozen regardless at this time of year. "Protection" could just mean padding unless they specifically state in the invoice/quote that it will be placed in a controlled environment.
To be honest, unless you gave very specific directives to them I think you are probably SOOL.
Last edited by Siouxie; Jan 26th 2016 at 10:17 pm.
Jan 26th 2016, 11:31 pm
#7
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
They both had a customs manifest (what it is, number of bottles, alcohol percentage etc) and their packers packed the bottles/boxes into their own boxes, so yes, they knew exactly what it was.
All that said, you shouldn't have to explain to a removal company that has a contact to specifically ship liquids that the shipment doesn't like freezing. They should take precautions to make sure it doesn't.
Out of interest how are things like food/alcohol and furniture moved around Canada in winter? I'd assume with some kind of insulation in the trucks as even furniture will be affected by significantly low temperatures.
Hopefully it will all be sorted amicably, otherwise we do have other avenues we can pursue before legal action. We are liaising with our move organiser and if this happened to us it may happen to others in the future if something isn't changed, possibly including the move company.
I'm sure we be SOOL but hopefully not.
All that said, you shouldn't have to explain to a removal company that has a contact to specifically ship liquids that the shipment doesn't like freezing. They should take precautions to make sure it doesn't.
Out of interest how are things like food/alcohol and furniture moved around Canada in winter? I'd assume with some kind of insulation in the trucks as even furniture will be affected by significantly low temperatures.
Hopefully it will all be sorted amicably, otherwise we do have other avenues we can pursue before legal action. We are liaising with our move organiser and if this happened to us it may happen to others in the future if something isn't changed, possibly including the move company.
I'm sure we be SOOL but hopefully not.
Jan 27th 2016, 1:06 am
#8
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
We ship perishables regularly, on every waybill there we state a max and min temperature. Each box has a thermometer in it recording the temp deviations from that specified makes it the shippers responsibility. Without it there is no comeback.
50% proof would freeze at something like -40c.
Jan 27th 2016, 2:59 am
#9
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
What shipping company do you work for?
I only ask as the idea that I don't want my liquids frozen in transit isn't exactly something you should need to specifically state to a shipping company. I'm a little worried now as I didn't ask them explicitly to secure the container to the ship when it came over...
You may be correct, on the other hand (and this is irrespective of insurance or not) what they have done is totally irresponsible. At the very least a good shipping company that deals with individuals, not regular clients, should run through what we would like with things that could get damaged in transit like that.
Being contracted to ship goods like that, then failing to take the basic necessary precautions, or even providing those as an option is why we are liaising with our company to make sure this doesn't happen again to others (people coming over regularly ship alcohol). To be fair to the moving company, being a UK company, they may not have even considered that it would be cold enough to freeze, but then, that goes back to the negligence argument.
As I said I don't expect much to come of all this unfortunately, the list of exceptions to their liability is basically everything, but at the very least we can hopefully influence the company (ours or the shipping company) to make sure this doesn't happen to others. Just saying "get compensation from your insurer" shouldn't cut it.
What this does do though is reinforce my "if you want something done properly do it yourself", and "don't trust anyone" attitude.
I only ask as the idea that I don't want my liquids frozen in transit isn't exactly something you should need to specifically state to a shipping company. I'm a little worried now as I didn't ask them explicitly to secure the container to the ship when it came over...
You may be correct, on the other hand (and this is irrespective of insurance or not) what they have done is totally irresponsible. At the very least a good shipping company that deals with individuals, not regular clients, should run through what we would like with things that could get damaged in transit like that.
Being contracted to ship goods like that, then failing to take the basic necessary precautions, or even providing those as an option is why we are liaising with our company to make sure this doesn't happen again to others (people coming over regularly ship alcohol). To be fair to the moving company, being a UK company, they may not have even considered that it would be cold enough to freeze, but then, that goes back to the negligence argument.
As I said I don't expect much to come of all this unfortunately, the list of exceptions to their liability is basically everything, but at the very least we can hopefully influence the company (ours or the shipping company) to make sure this doesn't happen to others. Just saying "get compensation from your insurer" shouldn't cut it.
What this does do though is reinforce my "if you want something done properly do it yourself", and "don't trust anyone" attitude
.
Jan 27th 2016, 3:41 am
#10
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
Out of interest, did they fly the alcohol over or was it sent by ship?
Jan 27th 2016, 3:46 am
#11
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
Ship I believe.
Anyway, sorry, just venting my frustration at companies and one sided contracts that basically give the consumer no rights at all. I guess they may not be as bad as airlines, but that's not saying much.
On the other hand I'm sure the insurance would have had a clause so they wouldn't pay out either... The insurer would claim it was the shipper/airlines fault, the shipper/airline would claim it was up us to get money back from the insurer and in the end the consumer would lose out... again (had multiple instances of this with airlines cancelling/moving flights by days).
Anyway, I guess there is not much more this thread can do.
Anyway, sorry, just venting my frustration at companies and one sided contracts that basically give the consumer no rights at all. I guess they may not be as bad as airlines, but that's not saying much.
On the other hand I'm sure the insurance would have had a clause so they wouldn't pay out either... The insurer would claim it was the shipper/airlines fault, the shipper/airline would claim it was up us to get money back from the insurer and in the end the consumer would lose out... again (had multiple instances of this with airlines cancelling/moving flights by days).
Anyway, I guess there is not much more this thread can do.
Last edited by Amp34; Jan 27th 2016 at 3:50 am.
Jan 27th 2016, 6:16 am
#12
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
On the other hand I'm sure the insurance would have had a clause so they wouldn't pay out either... The insurer would claim it was the shipper/airlines fault, the shipper/airline would claim it was up us to get money back from the insurer and in the end the consumer would lose out... again (had multiple instances of this with airlines cancelling/moving flights by days).
How an insurer would deal with such a claim would depend on the terms of coverage.
Jan 27th 2016, 4:31 pm
#13
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
Just having a bad week recently. Our move went smoothly and now we have three things to deal with internationally. One being the DVLA not realising our car has left the country. You can't call them so we are now having to do correspondence by post, which means several weeks between post and reply. I predict the next letter to arrive from them some time in march and perhaps a resolution in 2017...
Then there is the letting agent, who, after 3 months has finally given us (part) of our deposit back. That's another thing to deal with, although their contract clearly states they had 10 days to let us know if they were taking anything off (and we had a walkthrough a day before leaving that was fine, along with a promise of our deposit coming back in 2 days...), and the law states they had 10 days to give us our deposit back... They appear to have completely ignored the tenancy agreement and tenancy law.
So I apologise if I'm a little anti businesses at the moment and partly why I'm a little grumpy about finding out the company we contracted to pack (they did the packing) and get our goods to our location safely did a completely useless job of it. That part is completely separate to any claims or insurance.
I'm sure everything will end satisfactorily, it's just the extra hassle caused.
There are international conventions that cover carrier liability. Responsibility is with the shipper (customer) to ensure their goods are adequately covered by insurance if the contract does no make sufficient allowance. We often buy extra insurance even sending a parcel by post as the basic coverage is too low for higher value items.
How an insurer would deal with such a claim would depend on the terms of coverage.
How an insurer would deal with such a claim would depend on the terms of coverage.
It's not the shippers fault we don't appear to have adequate insurance (that would be the person dealing with the shipping, and perhaps ultimately partly me for not demanding to see every piece of paperwork for the move), but at the same time they completely failed in their contracted duty to pack and ship appropriately. This isn't a unexpected problem, like a ship sinking, or war, it was failure to protect a shipment, specifically shipped separately, from average weather. But I'm sure we will agree to disagree there.
Jan 27th 2016, 4:55 pm
#14
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
I totally understand, unfortunately unless you are a contracts lawyer and you can think of every eventuality, the reality is it's very easy to get caught out, especially if, like most on this forum, this isn't something you regularly do.
It's not the shippers fault we don't appear to have adequate insurance (that would be the person dealing with the shipping, and perhaps ultimately partly me for not demanding to see every piece of paperwork for the move), but at the same time they completely failed in their contracted duty to pack and ship appropriately. This isn't a unexpected problem, like a ship sinking, or war, it was failure to protect a shipment, specifically shipped separately, from average weather. But I'm sure we will agree to disagree there.
It's not the shippers fault we don't appear to have adequate insurance (that would be the person dealing with the shipping, and perhaps ultimately partly me for not demanding to see every piece of paperwork for the move), but at the same time they completely failed in their contracted duty to pack and ship appropriately. This isn't a unexpected problem, like a ship sinking, or war, it was failure to protect a shipment, specifically shipped separately, from average weather. But I'm sure we will agree to disagree there.
The key thing is keep emotion out of it and just prove the element of the contract that were breached. Depends on the sum involved if it is worth it. It can be done, I have been successful in court in such cases. It does drag on and for a couple of thousand I would not have bothered.
Good luck sorting it out.
This isn't a unexpected problem, like a ship sinking, or war, it was failure to protect a shipment, specifically shipped separately, from average weather.
Last edited by Aviator; Jan 27th 2016 at 4:57 pm.
Jan 27th 2016, 5:44 pm
#15
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 76
Re: Shipping and claims for damaged products
You keep blaming the shippers and not taking any responsibility your self. Did you not consider that shipping alcohol at that time of year was a foolish thing to do.
Pull up your big boy pants and get over it.
Pull up your big boy pants and get over it.