Self Employed?
 

Just curious really, how many on here are self employed, so no pension, no sick pay, no annual leave? Where your income each money is directly linked to how much you worked the month before?

Are you happy with the risk? Nothing bad will ever happen to me? Or would you never take a job without some sort of protection from employer? What cover do you provide yourself with? Life Assurance? Critical illness?

Thoughts please!!! I really should be studying too!

Re: Self Employed?
 

I have been as described in the first paragraph since 1986. How do you make paragraphs now?

Re: Self Employed?
 

:wave:

The other way of looking it is that you have 52 weeks annual leave if you want.

I self-insure for things like dental and prescription drugs. I do carry some life assurance but we are at the happy stage in life where most things are paid off. If you discount the grown up son in the basement who really should have left home by now we don't have any dependents. I appreciate the risk is a lot higher with a young family.

I work because, for the most part, I enjoy it and to try and make sure retirement will be fun rather than just getting by until lights out.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Is that worth doing? Bet it doesn't cover my eldest needing braces:sneaky: I am not looking forward to that moment here..

Re: Self Employed?
 

$6k for number one son :(

Re: Self Employed?
 

Seriously- that's half our moving costs to go back to the NHS for braces:sneaky:

Re: Self Employed?
 

I am self employed and I would think that one would not entertain doing so until one weighed up the benefits with the risks and decided that one outweighed the other. The risks to which you refer can be mitigated to a large extent by insurance. One of our daughter's orthodontic work is costing us in excess of $10,000.

Re: Self Employed?
 

I lost my extended health benefits when I left paid employment. I asked for a quote for private insurance. I had to sit down for a while once I received it.

Insurers plan to spend 65% of the premiums you pay them and keep 35%. To make sure they keep 35% there are restrictions on what they will pay out. I have not seen a private plan that will cover much, if any, orthodontic work. When I was covered by the work-based plan I still had to pay for junior's braces out of pocket. There might be some coverage for crowns or root canals but it will be a lot less than the dentist's fees. Basically, anything that is expensive is excluded. And, if you end up claiming more than 65% of your premiums they will just put your premiums up next year.

Maybe extended health plans for government employees will have better coverage but I have not found a private plan that I think is value for money. The best value plans are pooled plans like the one the Chambers of Commerce offer. In a pooled plan the expense to premium ratio is calculated over all subscribers so there is less chance an extra filling will bump your premium in the following year.

My solution was to put the equivalent of the insurance premium in a savings account each month. We pay all health costs from this account. It is running a "healthy" surplus.

Re: Self Employed?
 

You don't need to be self employed to not have insurance, pension, and so on.....;)

Re: Self Employed?
 

I can see how that happens. I had two lots of dental work in the first few years here that cost less than the premiums and it wouldn't have been covered anyway. :lol:

I'm not self employed but half my income (depending on the exchange rate) depends on not having a rogue tenant, extended vacancy or major unexpected rental expense.

My step daughter is employed but the employer keeps staff hours below the level at which they'd get coverage. She did have it for a short period but dental cover was minimal.

In addition to its drug program for social development clients, the Province here has a plan for every NB resident who doesn't have employee or other private coverage.

It's quite affordable for those on lower incomes. Monthly Premiums and co-pays can be as low as $16 and $5 respectively.

Re: Self Employed?
 

I would have thought 99.9% of the people using this forum are either unemployed, self-employed or retired. :lol:

Canada is a good place to be self-employed because it has low payroll taxes and some semblance of healthcare, although a group dental plan is a nice thing to have.

As compared with the US where you have to pay double FICA which is way more tax and have to buy an ACA plan to get healthcare as well.

And there in a nutshell is why I live here rather than in the US.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Companies love to do that in the US and Canada, they will proclaim they offer benefits, but they will forget to mention how you need to average 40 hours a week, and how they purposely schedule the bulk of their employees at just shy of 40 hours so they don't qualify. That's been the way almost every company I have worked for has done.

I don't even concern myself with benefits anymore, there is very little chance of a company offering them to employees of my level that isn't going to be a crummy job, I know Tim Horton's does, but man that would be a miserable job, and frankly benefits are not worth being miserable in your job.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Those people who look down their noses at what they like to call burger flippers...what condescending name do they use for TH workers?

Re: Self Employed?
 

Self-employed here with 8 staff.

No personal insurances (life/health etc). The business and other property are pensions.

Re: Self Employed?
 

I've heard donuts tosser, and coffee jockey before.

I don't look down on anyone who does it, I just know I could not survive in a fast paced environment like that, the faster I have to work, the worst I do, the more clumsy I get, and the more stressed, I'd be a stress case in that kind of environment.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Its hard working in a fast food type place, especially when its lined up to the door and your short staffed, but the days go really quick and it's pretty fun for the most part, better than working in a clothes shop thats for sure:thumbup: I don't flip burgers or toss donuts though ;)

Re: Self Employed?
 

Self employed obviously, although officially we are employed by our incorporation.
Vacation- you just have to get in the mind set of looking at yearly income, not what's comes in every 2 weeks. Dr TT will make enough over a year to allow for holiday and he has to take it, the stress of his job/ huge responsibilities will wear him down if he doesn't
Sick pay, life insurance, critical illness you need.
We have some good ones from the UK we keep current, plus some useless ones we need to ditch soon as not appropriate for here. BC have a great one for income via Doctors of BC , we should have arranged it on arrival but I've just done the forms!!!
Pension, we brought over our NHS ones earlier this year, are keeping up with UK state pensions as not too far from full enhanced pension.We are also saving and investing money as we can and have decided to become landlords, our accountants says we should be one level above a slum landlord to make most money!!!! Not sure I can quite do that, I want to rent out decent , clean places and be fair. But it will give us income during retirement plus the properties will have the loans paid for by the renters. You have to be proactive re your retirement unlike when employed by the NHS, it's taken us a while to really take this on board.

Now, health care, have just been sorting this. We have extended health care for our employees at work, but we agreed that we , the GPs would only use for cheap stuff,physio, cheap dental, odd meds. As you learn, the schemes are just a way of taking money from the employer to pay the bills of the employee, with the insurance company taking a cut. Bills rise, we pay more.

So with an orthodontic bill of $8000 to pay, we looked at companies who basically work as a private health services plan, they reimburse you, it goes through your incorporation but they take a 10% cut. Our accountant said it's possible to do ourselves, as long as we are employed by our incorporation. We have our lawyer drawing up the documents needed by the CRA. We have to keep the bills to an amount the CRA will accept, she suggests $12000 a year. She suggests thats the kind of figure an employee may expect per year from a scheme. We can pay our medical expenses direct from our business, no one gets a 10% cut apart my accountant and lawyer to set it up initially. I'm not sure if it's then a business expense, must ask my accountant!! Have a chat with your accountant.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Honestly I think we're in a very different position to you guys.. But will message you privately. On a public note, the liberal government have announced that they're overspent on the health budget and they will clawback money from all doctors in Ontario. They will decide how much at the end of the year and then tell doctors and take it. Best scenario is 1% of overall earnings even though no doctor receives overall earnings. Worst scenario 10% and don't get paid for a month or two. If that happens there is absolutely no question that we will be returning home.

Re: Self Employed?
 

No we have just been here longer!!!
At your point, our heads were spinning trying to make sense of it all. It will happen, all the other docs here are similar to us, including the single earners.
Re the pay, Ontario docs are paid the highest in Canada, with a pay cut, it will bring them down to maybe BC rates, still enough, no reason to leave!

Re: Self Employed?
 

Without causing any offence, you have no idea what my husband earns, how much we pay in overheads, how much I used to earn and haven't had a second income in nearly two years and what we have or don't have rather in savings and pension. I could quite happily go home because I hate the stress of money here. Can you honestly say you wouldn't feel super stressed about money being told that quite possibly there will be no income at all for the next two months and having no control over it? How on earth can we put anything away for a pension or savings with that happening.

I wanted to go home for a holiday at Christmas this year but we genuinely can't afford to. That alone makes it not worth staying here.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Is there not an option for your husband to become an employee?

Re: Self Employed?
 

Aside from a small pension, our business income is for 8 months a year and negative the other 4 months. One budgets and gets used to it.

If one has enough notice one can prepare for it, if it is thrust upon you it would be much harder to accommodate.

Re: Self Employed?
 

She is only responding to your question and giving an opinion in a position of having worked as a family physician for 6 years- and trying to help. We work with a doc who is the sole breadwinner, family physician and the partner (husband) keeps things in order at home.

Why no income for two months? You are righ twe dont know the details of your finances/Dr TT's income but we are aware of relative pay scales across Canada and Ontario are at the top, BC pretty near the bottom- I do however have a strong hunch that earnings would be hugely less even if you were working in the UK alongside hubby with his ever shrinking pay packet.
I am aware of your hankering for UK shores and missing home and I get that- maybe that call is getting stronger and stronger??

Re: Self Employed?
 

Still at the top I don't know? We never compared. Earlier this year the government implemented cuts, so fee for service pay went down, new patient fee gone and education funding gone too. Ok fair enough cuts need to be made. But the government have returned to the table and said the books still aren't going to balance, to balance them we are going to take the rest from the money you've earnt this year (total earnings). They don't know how much they need to take yet so we have no idea whether it will amount to 1% or 10% clawback... Just that in January and February the husband might work the entire time and not get paid as the government take back the money.. Hence the two possible months without any sort of income at all.

So for example we receive a $1000 income, we pay 30% in overheads that leaves us with 700 the government then say they want 10% we then lose another 100. So we're at 600 before we even consider the tax man, pension, living costs, savings, life assurance, critical illness, dental costs etc. We are worse off here taking into account my salary by about $36,000 compared to our UK salaries.

That's fine, we're good but does it make up for me not being able to work as an RN, does it make up for missing friends and family, when we have to consider that because the government want money they've already paid to us back we can't go back to see everyone. If we're not actually better off, then it's time to consider if this is the place for us. The longer we stay though the harder it gets, I have many friends and things I'd miss here now..

Re: Self Employed?
 

You are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't!
I think that the NHS has deteriorated significantly even in the short time that you have been away. Negotiations will be resolved in time- I get that it is worrying for you both especially with the uncertainty. You are going to miss people whatever choice you make. I'm not sure that the grass is truly greener on the other side but you are in the same position of questioning your point of being here. This, after you have the go ahead for the exam. Life can be weird sometimes. Is it pre Wallaby match nerves???;)

Re: Self Employed?
 

Welcome to life in North America, millions of workers are in the same boat, if a pension and savings isn't viable, best to not sit and stress over it, that's just how life is.

Anytime one relies on government for income be it doctors, or nurses, or any provider, to the little people like us on disability, the hand that gives also takes, politicians don't like raising taxes, pisses less people off to claw back funds then to raises taxes on everyone.


Can you move to the US? Might be able to make more money working as an employee doctor at a place like Kaiser?

Re: Self Employed?
 

Not just North America, all over the world and certainly in our field in the UK as well. Working in US in America... nigh impossible I would say- and nor would personally I want to.- Just my opinion!:cool:

Re: Self Employed?
 

Bahaha might be... ;)

Actually we had decided we would wait and see how we felt after going home and whether I pass the exam or not:eek: but now the going home thing won't happen. We have applied for my son's place in secondary school though with his friends. Just hedging our bets at the moment..

Re: Self Employed?
 

Sounds like the rest of the world may not be a whole lot better...

I was just curious if the US would be an option for a doc in Canada, I haven't a clue, but thought I'd toss the idea out...

Re: Self Employed?
 

And of course you're right, it's the same everywhere... My fb feed full of UK and Ontario docs moaning demonstrate that. But just one little point- in the UK we don't have to spend thousands of dollars flying home to see everyone plus better the devil you know. The potential for my career advancement is way better in the UK compared to becoming an RPN here..

Re: Self Employed?
 

Re- Travel- this true indeed! But you I know have experienced, that there are massive upsides as well as downsides to living here- you just have to weigh them up and this certainly ain't easy! Progression in nursing here is archaic even for Canadian trained nurses- everything is way too Physician centric.. but that is another story. I thought that you were finally on your way in some small part with your recent exam go ahead- am I wrong? Unfortunately I think the role that you had in the Uk extended you and clearly you loved it- It sadly won't be replicated here any time soon and that amongst other things may be too frustrating to you. Working nurses here seem to accept that they need to adapt or presumably can't and then return to the UK or from whence they came. You never denied the rugby refererence... Butterflies in tummy yet?:lol:

Re: Self Employed?
 

I am... The passing of the exam will give me the ability to work and earn some extra money thus taking the pressure off Dr TT. But unless I can find an Ontario based University to recognize my education and award me credits for me it I won't be able to bridge to RN which just leaves me as a jobbing nurse so to speak ;).. I had always thought I might be a Nurse Endoscopist in the UK.. It's difficult to decipher when you have kids/moved country how you feel about the loss of career prospects - I might have decided the impact on family life too big back in the UK to take it on anyway.. I suppose here it's the lack of choice.

Now to the rugby.... It's true, there are some nerves. Honestly if we can't beat Australia on Saturday then what chance do we stand at the cup. I honestly don't know what group we will face if we come in at second opposed to first. We have a friend here from NZ but originally Scottish and some English friends. It's almost like watching it with friends back home.

Re: Self Employed?
 

The ball is both is both in your court and soon, on the pitch! :eek:

Re: Self Employed?
 

That's a bit shocking.

On the other hand there has been huge controversy lately over NHS junior doctors contracts (perhaps not your specific case) and reports of widespread defections to Canada and Australia!

Re: Self Employed?
 

The grass is greener effect... Like I said on subsequent posts I have both UK doctors and Ontario doctors going on about the government as friends on fb.

Re: Self Employed?
 

Today I received $600 'death benefit' towards the funeral costs.

Taxable of course. Why would something like that be taxable?

Re: Self Employed?
 

You'd think it wouldn't be, but Canada seems to like to tax anything possible, including taxing taxes...

Re: Self Employed?
 

Sorry for moaning:(

Re: Self Employed?
 

So that wealthier people who don't need it pay a good chunk of it back?

Re: Self Employed?
 

Have you considered studying to be a Nurse Practitioner? My sister-in-law is one, she has worked in some weird and wonderful places - including Nunavut, where she had to saw someone's leg off as well as deal with day-to-day emergencies - and has had some fabulous experiences.

It would probably give you more career opportunities and more varied duties that a general RN. You can do the course part time or full time; study online and only have to go to the Uni a couple of times a month.

Just a thought.

:)

Laurentian University | Nursing PHCNP (M.Sc.N.)
Ontario Primary Health Care Nurse Practitioner Program PHCNP - Admission Requirements
https://npao.org/