Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Some of you will remember me coming on here a few months ago to gather your thoughts on a proposed move to Saskatoon from Manchester/London. Well, I moved (alone) to Saskatoon last July with my employer through intracompany transfer (3 year contract) mainly for the purpose of career advancement, adventure, and to be perfectly honest some financial incentives . I went back home for Christmas and New Year and since returning at the beginning of January, it has been a difficult three months. As many of you have experienced, I have had good days when I would think “Oh my career has developed tremendously in the last nine months, this is the kind of project I have always wanted to get involved in blah blah blah” and I have equally had low days when I just want to pack my stuff and get on the next flight.

I have tried settling in by joining a football club, a gymnastic club, blogging for a local fashion accessories maker, partaking in fashion features for a local magazine, and joining a local gym. In doing this, I have made many acquaintances and a few lovely friends, yet I feel as though I don’t know these friends well enough. I keep busy for the most part, but I miss my friends and family a lot. I miss the little things I took for granted – quality time with friends and family, the culture, history, the greenery, spring and autumn, the fashion, and as silly as it sounds the British media.

My employer has been very helpful in the settling down process. The dilemma is that they offered me the opportunity to visit before accepting the offer, which I declined to save time and cost because I was so intrigued by the project opportunities and responsibilities, plus I would have been tied down to a 5 month project in the UK office if I hadn't move by end of July . That was my biggest mistake and as they often say hindsight is a wonderful thing. I don’t want to give up on Canada after living in a place considered to be “Canada’s Sh**hole” for nine months, I’d like to try transferring to another city - Calgary or Vancouver and if there isn't any opening then I will have no other option but to move back to the UK. However my difficulties are how do I face my employer and tell them (1) sorry I can’t do this anymore, I want to move to another office in a bigger city and (2) If there is no opening in another office then I would like to move back to the UK. I feel like I would have let them down, plus they offered me the opportunity to visit first which I declined, but the truth is I am not happy here. And it’s not only because of the weather, summer was somewhat similar too but that was the honeymoon period, so it kind of papered over the cracks.

Thoughts would be much appreciated thanks.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Did you enjoy the period from July to Christmas?

Winter in Canada is pretty grim, especially if you haven't got skiing on your doorstep. Tough it out till summer at least.

Forget about the not doing the pre-employment visit, it wouldn't have changed anything, would it?

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Hi there!

Well your reasons for moving were career advancement (and financial incentives). You say that your career is developing the way that you want it to so I would say stick at it.

You will have soon been here a year ... only two more to go. Keep at the hobbies (good for you by the way!) and try and do some travel this year to other parts of Canada and down into the States. Try and use the time to explore areas that you may not get to see once you return to UK. Don't always use your vacation to 'go home'. You're in North America - there are lots of places that you can plan to see before heading home.

Co-incidentally I've been talking with my son on just this same subject, my consistent advice to him over the years has been to always see things through. You have a three year contract - nowadays it seems an old fashioned philosophy to stick to a commitment but I believe that it feels great to honor a worthwhile commitment that you’ve made and to follow through on that commitment. Making and sticking to a commitment builds confidence and makes you feel better about yourself. It builds trust with your colleagues, friends and family. Maybe you should focus on the positives - what will you gain? how will you benefit from staying in Saskatoon? Maybe take some online courses to back up your career progression.

The good news is, if you decide to leave, it will not mean the end of the world. You may feel bad for letting yourself and others down, but you can start over and try again. The feelings will be short-lived. It’s temporary pain ;)

Good luck with whatever you decide J :)

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Takes time to get to know a place and know the people. I don't know if < 1 year is enough to do it justice.

In threads like this I remind people that, even after a short period away, going "home" can feel equally as alien and you'll inevitably miss things you take for granted here in Canada on the flipside.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I agree with the above, stick it out for at least a year.

With the friends, is it you always making the effort, or do you sit back and wait for them? Building a friendship takes a lot of work. You say you miss the friendship with your friends in the UK, but how long did it take for that to develop? I think you need to give it a bit more time.

You're doing everything right, and understandable that it's not the easiest, but these things don't happen immediately. And the summer will be gorgeous.

So I say to stick it out a bit more, and if after 18 months you still aren't happy then speak to your employer about moving to another city. :)

Good luck!

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

My gut reaction is to give it a bit longer.

I have been here just over 2 years and there are days I still get homesick.

I deliberately haven't been back to the UK in the first 2 years as I thought I would find it too unsettling. I think maybe going back so early didn't go you much good? you weren't here long enough for it to feel like "home" before you went back.

I also think you haven't been here long enough to make deep friendships - they take a while.

We are going back in a few weeks for a holiday and part of me still wonders whether it will do me any good or just set me back.

I would give it a good few more months before making a big decision - "If in doubt - no nowt"

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Geordie's post is great.

Another thing that occurred to me - it helps to generally be working towards something to make somewhere feel more like home. Saving up for a house, planning some kind of trip around the area (take a week and do a hiking trip or something) - something to keep you occupied and to keep you striving towards something. Even sometimes tkaing a weekend to clean and tidy and rearrange your house to make it more "you" can be a great exercise to really feel like a space is your own.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Wise words, thanks. I went travelling around America for a month across 8 cities last October, which was brilliant. As some people have mentioned here, I guess going back home so early didn't do me much good.

Schnookololy, Geordie Lass- I understand where you are coming from, though I think I keep busy enough. The bad news is I have already booked tickets to visit home in June and Christmas.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Its not so much about keeping busy (which is great because I remember the early days when hubby was working and son at school and I wasn't in a position to work (exams to pass first) I was really lonely until I made friends. I feel your pain - honestly. I used to skype people and then just cry and cry afterwards (and that was knowing I had made the right decision and wanted to give it a go).

I am saying it takes a lot longer to actually feel settled than what you've given it yet. I wonder if that's part of your problem. There is no doubt going back to the UK is unsettling for most of us.

Hang in there and until you are really sure what you are doing - sit on it. Making decisions in a bout of homesickness probably isn't wise....

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I agree with the others in that going home can sometimes make it harder, it certainly was harder for me to re-assimilate after being home for a month in July, but it reaffirmed my desire to go home, and the fact that I won't live in Canada much longer. I needed to know for sure if I really wanted to move home, and I did.

So if you go home and you have that thought, "I don't want to be in Canada anymore" , then thats a sign. If you really and truly don't like it here than go home before you spend too much time here, cos you may get into a whole thing of regret-"why did I come here" "I've wasted x years of my life" - if you don't like it but stay on.

I disagree with the fact that he wouldn't be honouring his commitment, because (correct me if i'm wrong) if he stays with the same company, just transfers to another city, be it in Canada or back in the UK, he's still on that 3 year contract with the company... Just fulfilling it a better place in the world.

Hey, you gave it a go, and that's what matters. If you didn't come, you may have wondered "What if" for the rest of your life. :)

And if you do have to leave your company, than so be it. Not the end of the world. You have to think whats best for you, not whats best for the company or whats "the right thing to do" . If you don't want to live in Saskatoon for the next 2 and a bit years, don't.
HTH
:)

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I agree with most of what you are saying. My opinion is that poster hasn't given it long enough to make that decision to go back yet or whether Canada isn't for them.

Once decision is made then for sure - if you are unhappy go back - just give yourself long enough to make that decision.

However I can recommend Calgary wholeheartedly and it might just be that you need a change of city. Again if it were me I would give it longer and sit on it a bit...

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Just concentrate on your career. You aren't going to make really good friends here anyway, it'll never really happen. You're always going to be the foreigner. Unlike the US, Canadians don't want Brits here as they're culturally narrow minded and insular (Goziwhatnot is not representative) plus you also compete for the few jobs going. That said, if your career is going well then naff them. Collect the dosh and go home when you can afford to.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Couldn't DISagree more ;)

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Give it 6 more months. You may start to like it and prove your value more so you can get the transfer.

That failing you can return home with a good 18 months of work experience on the resume.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I would say if he doesn't like it after a year, then go elsewhere... I can't agree on Calgary solely because of the weather :D I would say try for Vancouver/Victoria...

Thanks Oink :)
And :goodpost: again!

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Lots of people go through it even the couples that do it but like everyone has said - stick it out, it will take awhile to settle in.

And the worst feeling is when you go back and then start having regrets that you were too hasty in giving up on Canada - a vicious circle kinda thing but it happens.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Can't but help agree with Oink and Jings....you saved the company money...keep stressing that in 'the right tone'. What is passed has passed. Don't stress it...if they wanted to send you thus far, they value you as an employee, seek to play that to your advantage. Don't feel some misplaced British team spirit....they won't thank you for it, or respect it. You are good...just in the wrong place!

Winters in Canada are shit...big shit..don't assume you can make any normal decision while it's horrible...very very best of luck:thumbup:

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Does your whole outlook on Canada boil down to the weather!??


You have 2 more years left, I would say stick it out, try to make the most of it and the career opportunity afforded to you. Give it another year, by which time it should be clear whether or not you are settled properly or not, and if not try and transfer somewhere else in Canada (if this is what is needed to maintain your career progression). You may find that it is just that community that doesn't fit for you.

But I wouldn't beat yourself up over the not going to visit the place first, because visiting somewhere for a short period of time is very different to actually living there.

You say you miss the British Media, culture etc. To be honest, the best substitute for that I found was here on BE. I would read the threads without contributing for a while just to get a taste of the banter. After a while I would contribute a little and it is fun. If you get a few beers in it's probably the closest thing you'll find to a British pub experience haha!

Is there much of a British Expat community that you could get involved with there??

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Thank you all for the posts, it means a lot as I am sure some of you have had similar experience in the past. For further clarification I was already an employer with the company in the UK for two years, I wasn't employed solely to come to Canada. It was a choice I made and I have no regrets whatsoever. If I moved to Calgary or Vancouver, then I will be moving to another sector of the company which means I will be leaving the guys who brought me to Canada (Work Permit, Relocation Assistance, etc). Family and friends consensus is to give it 18months and as someone mentioned earlier that will look good on the Cv if I had to go back home.

My experience thus far is that Canadians are generally super nice, but during my month travels in America I found out that it was actually easier to make good friends with Americans. It definitely changed my opinion of them

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

There's fashion in Saskatoon?!

Just kidding. ;) The prairies are certainly a unique part of the Canadian landscape, but for those who are seeking greenery, early springs, or extended autumns, it's probably the last destination in the country.

Likewise, if you're involved with fashion, a larger city - Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal - would likely be a better fit. Saskatoon may be Saskatchewan's arts community, but it's still a small potatoes art scene in Canada, and even more so when compared to what you may have been used to in the UK.

It's true that real friendships take can a lifetime to develop. You've spent your entire life in the UK. The people you were friends with in the UK shared a lifetime of similar experiences - the same school system, the same pop culture, the same media, the same shopping, the same values. You're still (from the sounds of it) experiencing culture shock in Saskatoon. You're superficially beginning to understand what makes the locals in Saskatoon tick, and chances are, what gets the locals excited is not the same as what makes you excited. The UK and Saskatoon are different worlds. You can't be in the UK headspace and expect to pick up quality Canadian friendships until you begin to observe Canadian life in Saskatoon from an anthropological perspective, and appreciate Saskatoon in its own context, rather than compare it to the UK.

People on BE have long said that you need a minimum of two years to properly adapt to a new location. The first year you're experiencing firsts - first time knowing when spring starts, what summer is like, your first winter, where to bank, where to buy groceries, what groceries to buy - silly superficial things that you take for granted, you need to relearn. Year two, these lifestyle changes are no longer a shock, you've experienced it, you know what to expect, and you can now anticipate it. Your 24 months in your new home is now the "new normal", and things are familiar and falling into place. It's become routine, and culture shock is no longer an issue. You either accept Saskatoon as it is, or admit that you can appreciate it for what it is in its own context, but it simply will never offer you the culture/climate you personally value.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

My experience is that Canadians are indeed super nice, but they also tend to have a very closed friendship group made up of people that they have known for years, even from elementary school! To me this is strange as I only speak to 2 maybe 3 people that I went to secondary school with!!

I am yet to make friends where I feel as close to them as I did to those back home. But again, those friendships were built over a long period of time. Unfortunately it always goes back to the time factor.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Be careful of the local women. They're a lot like Russian and Ukrainian women. They want to find a Western man with a decent job who can take them away from the place.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

You evidently did something wrong:p

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

What is wrong with Russian and Ukranian women?

I'm curious to know if there is a Hooters in Saskatoon? That could be the issue here if we all stop acting so blindly and start reading between the lines.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I find this is true in the suburbs around Vancouver (ie: Burnaby, Richmond, Langley, likely Chilliwack where I imagine you're living), but in the heart of Vancouver, a city of transients, where it seems like nobody is from Vancouver, friendships don't revolve around where you're from, but instead, friendships revolve around hobbies (photography, live music, beach volleyball, environmental activism, craft beer, marathon training, sea kayaking, snowboarding, etc.). Those who in Canada who are ambitious end up leaving their childhood social circles for other cities and countries. It explains why there are millions of Canadians living abroad in the USA, the UK, and elsewhere. It also may explain why cradles who grew up in the prairies, who don't fit the lifestyle, end up leaving to move to the bigger cities.

I imagine that in immigrant-rich Canadian cities, or transient cities (where people are moving from elsewhere in Canada) - Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary - if you're going to be building new friendships, it will likely be with the other transients who have moved in from elsewhere.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

If I recall there was only an okay hotel bar that was even remotely decent. Saskatoon was a right dump and that was in the middle of the summer. Surprisingly, the kebabs there were really spendy. They must think they're exotic or something. :confused:

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

That is a rather random list of hobbies there! The craft beer hobby is something that bugs me a little. It must be the whole hipster movement, but I have yet to taste a craft beer that doesn't taste like every other craft beer. Anyways..

That may be the case, my experience has been in the GVRD and FVRD, not the city of Vancouver itself. Although I know of quite a lot of ambitious people who have not needed to leave their home towns in order to see their ambitions come to fruition.

I do find however that Canadians tend to bounce around from city to city a lot more than in the UK, or maybe we just don't notice it as much in the UK as moving from one city to the next usually means they are moving an hour down the road! Whereas here moving from one big city to the city is usually a much bigger distance.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

:goodpost:

Totally agree on the friendship thing too - I have been trying to explain this to people for years; you don't 'instantly' make deep friendships, they take time to develop and deepen.

I think the other problem could be that sub-consciously you know that this is a temporary move and thus don't feel the need to try and make it 'home' - and all these pre-planned visits back to the UK won't help either.

Give it 18 months and then perhaps approach the company to relocate within Canada.

Have you considered applying for PR (seriously) - perhaps then you wouldn't feel that you are in transit and you could choose where you wanted to live and which company you worked for. I think you are just feeling trapped right now, understandably.

:)

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

From what I hear, those trying to make friends through meetup groups or interests in Vancouver still have a very hard time making those true friendships.

IMO with all the immigration and house prices there are very few people in greater vancouver who are still living where they grew up. All of my friends in Burnaby are *gasp* not even from BC, but all over Canada/the world.

http://www.bipt.ca/community/demographic-info

Over 50% of Burnaby's population is immigrant or refugee. I bet it's even higher for Richmond and the like.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

To the OP: If you can stick it out you'll be in an even better position to go where you want in a few years. Good luck :fingerscrossed:

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

More on this ... I find the area around Fairview/ Granville to be very family orientated with some life long Cradles !

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Mostly. But that statement was mostly intended as a joke, hence the smiley... But on the other hand, if the OP doesn't like the weather in Sask I don't see how he would like it in Calgary? My cousin told me a few days ago it was still snow and cold there!

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I'm not really sure what constitutes a close friend. I have friends back in the UK who I've known for 30+ years - but I wouldn't say they were close. I just know a lot about them through sheer longevity. I have friends in Canada I've only known for a few years, but I'd rather go fishing with some of them than some of the UK "lifers". I think largely my experience has been that as time has passed I have become less relevant to the lives of friends in the UK and, therefore, contact with them has become less frequent as the years have passed by. I'm sure if I went back to the UK I would have more contact with some of them than I do now. But do I miss them over and above my Canadian friends? not particularly.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I suppose it's also important to consider that working on and developing friendships takes work. You can't just hang out once or twice and then be best friends. There's a lot of time that goes into building and developing friendships.

When I moved to the UK 5 years ago, I knew two people, one was my flatmate, and the other was someone I went to university with (let's call him Mike). I didn't really know Mike much in university, just "oh, he's in my program, I think he may be in my accounting class" kind of thing.

However, I started to meet people at work, and the ones I thought were cool I started inviting to hang out outside of work. I made an effort to be available when people were planning anything social so that I could meet more people, went to lunch with colleagues, and genuinely took an interest in them, in their families, in their lives. Eventually you start meeting friends through friends and you establish the network that way... but it takes a lot of work, particularly in the beginning.

Now that we have moved back to Canada, my husband is going through the same thing. He's not as social/outgoing as I am, but I'm also experiencing it as well. However I've managed to reconnect with some people I knew in university, again only casually when we were in university, but I'm better friends with them now than I was in university, and both my husband and I make an effort to attend social events as much as we can - and we are trying to work out when we can take our turn to host something as well. A bunch of my husband's colleagues also go play poker every Friday evening. My husband doesn't go every week, but he does try to go about once a month.

This got a bit long, but the TL;DR: version is that building friendships takes work, it takes time, and it takes a bit of commitment and push on both sides for it to happen.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I understand making friendship takes time and commitment, but I think its easier to make friends with people you share similar interest with. I have been open to trying new hobbies and stuff, but if you are not into something you cannot continuously pretend you are having fun just because you want to make friends. I work with loads of engineer who got married in their early to mid 20's, they live a weekly planned/scheduled lifestyle and the only thing they do for fun is go for a meal once a month after work on a Thursday. Funny enough the weather hasn't been a big issue for me, other than the stuffs that I have mentioned in the original post what I have really struggled to come to terms with in the last 3 months is, you walk outside and you can barely see anyone on the streets even in the areas considered to be the heart of the city center. I'm like where the heck is everyone, being a Londoner and having lived in Manchester for a few years before moving to Canada it has been a rather different experience and somewhat of a difficult adaptation period.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

How old are you? I find people have an easier time adapting the younger they are, plus it helps if you lived abroad at a younger age. By the time you're 25 you're set in your ways, imo. Mainly because you learn all the stuff to do with looking after yourself in the immediate period after you leave home and learning it all over again becomes harder the older you are.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I think it is more shared experiences than shared interests (though they help too).

Moving countries is a hell of a big thing. It changes you in more ways than you could have imagined beforehand. People who are born and bred in one place will never understand. Look amongst other immigrants. We've been here a while now and have a reasonable circle of friends. Only one was born in Canada and, I suspect, he is only included because his wife wasn't.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

I'm 29 - I reckon adapting to Saskatoon would be somewhat difficult for most people regardless of their age, unless if you move here with your family.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

ive read this thread a couple o times and i recon the problem is that you dont have to be there and you have an out!
I noticed this occuring at the first job i had in Canada,the ones like myself who came over with next to nothing ,we just started life etc from scratch and got on with what Canada threw at us ,while the ones with a house /job (to return too)back in the UK ,,after a few setbacks went back to the UK without in my opinion giving it a fair go!.
But for someone from a big city with all that brings ,moving to a small city in the frozen prairies is never going to work out well and once you believe you dont want to be there its a lost cause as you will get more and more fed up .
jimmy.

Re: Seeking the BE community's thoughts.
 

Because the weather is milder in Calgary. They get the warm chinook winds blowing in from the west and those rarely get this far.