Do any of our members on this site run a B&B/Guest House/Hotel/Any-other-Holiday-type-accommodation - or do you know anyone who does ?

Can anyone give a beginner some guidance and the crucial questions to be asking, especially figures ??

ie, number of rooms vs price per night vs occupancy rate vs overheads, etc ?

I'm currently reading "B&B for Dummies" so it gives you an idea what level I am at !

Any advice at all gratefully received - even more so if it is relevant to my question

Thanks ...

Ann I was thinking of doing this myself in Saskatchewan as B&B's seem to be quite scarce and very well paid even compared to hotels.

I will watch this thread with interest

Ann, have you looked at www.bbcanada.com? there is a section on B & B's for sale, not sure if there would be some relevant info there?

Yes, I do, but I'm not sure I'd be able to answer any difficult questions Our place is just a one bedroom B&B suite/appartment, so not much to do in the way of maths/figures...

Something we have considered but more along the lines of holiday cottages rather than B&B (we never really fancied the idea of having a load of people actually in our house and cottages avoids this plus our kids would probably drive in-house guests nuts!). Never found the right place for the right price though. There's a much larger up-front investment in setting up or buying somewhere that has a few holiday cottages as opposed to a B&B (for which you just need one largish house).

Its always frustrated me that we have moved all the way to Canada and somehow I have managed to swap my piss-boring desk job in the UK for an identical one here! Though all other aspects of life have greatly improved.

I managed to get some P&L figures from a place that was for sale that had a few holiday cottages. It looks to me like you probably need at least 6 to actually generate enough income not to have to do something else. Possibly more if you factor-in continued investment in upgrades and repairs. If this was something you were considering I can send you my figures.

We ran a B & B in BC for a number of years as my wife wanted something to do from home. It was a lot of fun, but you can lose your privacy. Depending on where you locate would depend on how you market and who your target market is. Where we were was not a holiday destination, we had visitors on the way to somewhere else, or in town for a function.

These might help
http://www.smallbusinessbc.ca/pdf/bandb.pdf
http://www.canadabusiness.ca/servlet...n&c=GuideHowto
http://www.entreprisescanada.ca/serv...5&c=GuideHowto
http://www.entreprisescanada.ca/serv...9&c=GuideHowto

B & B is like any other business, requiring a business plan, a marketing plan and a whole set of procedures in place. Regulations may differ from province to province as well as within a municipality.

Most of what we learned, we did it the hard way. The one biggy we found out, was take credit cards, take a deposit and have a Cancellation Policy. This way you don't lose out if they don't show up.

When looking at figures from other operations, especially if buying an existing business. These should be analyzed by a professional. Figures are not always what they appear to be. How were they prepared, on what basis, are they audited, or just from figures from the owners? Some govt. departments produce sample figures for certain business types.

Any questions, fire them off and I'll see what I can do.

Agree totally with your post. We have our guest accomodation in a seperate log building to our home and I wouldn't have it any other way. With 2 young children it's hard enough to keep the house in an acceptable state for us to live in, and the noise our boys make would certainly drive guests away. The way we have it set up, the guests have total peace and privacy, and I can let our home go completely to pot, as long as the guest accomodation is immaculate!

I'd also agree with your estimate of how many cabins you would need to be able to live off their income alone. If you multiply our guests suite's income by 6, it would be an OK amount to earn each year, whereas our single one just tops up my husband's relatively low wage.

Here are B&Bs in Cochrane. If I were you, I would find out how much they charge per night.

Also, I would phone the owners and ask them the kinds of questions you asked in your original post. I don't know if they would be willing to tell you. However, some of them may be willing to do so. There is some merit in cooperating with competing B&Bs. I have become an e-pal of a B&B owner in Jasper. I know that when she's fully booked, she refers people to other B&Bs in Jasper.

If the B&B owners in Cochrane won't speak to you, do a Google search for B&Bs in Calgary, and phone the owners of those establishments. Since you're outside of Calgary, I imagine they would not view you as a competitor. Hence I believe they would be willing to share information with you.

I am acquainted with Dori Wood, who is the owner of Lions Park B&B in Calgary. She has a big house. It's arranged in such a way that the wing in which she and her husband live is well segregated from the guest wing. The guest wing is comprised of a living room and dining room on the ground floor and three guest bedrooms upstairs. I've never seen the bedrooms, but have seen the guests' living room and dining room.

I gather it is quite a time consuming job. Apart from making breakfast, cleaning rooms, changing linen, laundering linen, etc., I know Dori spends a lot of time responding to people who make enquiries about availability of rooms. She says that she spends at least half an hour, and usually a full hour, with each guest when they check in. They have questions about nearby restaurants, city attractions, mountain attractions, etc. Whenever I've seen Dori at a social function, her cell phone has rung a few times during the course of the function, and she has responded to various enquiries related to her B&B. So, just from my observations of Dori, I would say that running a B&B ties a person down in certain ways.

Dori says that her clients are split 50-50 between leisure travellers and business travellers. Her B&B is situated in a very nice position. It's on a leafy residential street, and yet it's close to the TransCanada Highway, to Northill Shopping Centre, to Lions Park train station, and to the restaurants of Kensington. She says that businesswomen, in particular, like staying at her B&B. They feel more secure than they would feel in a large, impersonal hotel.

I don't know what kind of clientele you would get in Cochrane. The town is not quite close enough to the mountains to serve as a gateway for Banff, in the way that Canmore does. I doubt that a B&B in Cochrane would attract people who visit Calgary on business. The nature of Cochrane's B&B clientele is something that you may be able to find out from the owners of Cochrane's current B&Bs.

Dori was a nurse. She started her B&B when she divorced and had three young children to raise on her own. She found that running a B&B was a way in which she could earn money but still be home for her kids when they got back from school in the afternoon. Since then her children have grown up and she has remarried, but she's still running the B&B.

Earlier I mentioned that I was acquainted via the Internet with a B&B owner in Jasper. She is Karen Phillips and her B&B is Columbine House. From what I know of her posts on the TripAdvisor travel forum and via private e-mails, she sounds like a really nice person. I'm sure she'd gladly share her experience of running a B&B. But again, you would need to take into account the differences between Jasper and Cochrane. Jasper is without a doubt a very touristy town.

Hope that helps.

I should have mentioned as well that my assumption is that wheras the "going rate" for accommodation varies from region to region so to does the cost of living for you so these things probably balance. So wherever you are, 6 to 7 guest bedrooms or cabins are needed to generate a "full-time" income. Of course you can cheat the figures a bit if you can generate extra income from meals or boat rental etc.

Alex - what would you estimate as the cost of adding an extra cabin though? How long to generate a return on investment?

presumably one of the key advantages too is that you could legitimately split the income between you both (i.e. two people earning, say, $35k each would pay MUCH less tak than one person earning $70k).

Agree again. We charge far less per night than city or tourist destination B&B's, but our mortgage is a fraction of what it would be for a similar sized place in a more populated/popular area, and the same for property taxes, etc.

I'm afraid we don't know the cost of adding an extra cabin yet as we already know that we can't afford to do that for a while. We're thinking it's more likely that we'll try our luck with some teepees instead and see whether that's popular. However, our next door neighbour built our place and he is who we would employ to build any more cabins in the future. He's exceptionally good value for the quailty of his work. He told us to quote an insurance replacement figure of $62k on the second log building (the one on the right in the attached pic) which has the guest accomodation in it on the first floor (ground floor is set up as a workshop...but only used for storage by ourselves.)

I think a simple single storey cabin, able to sleep the same number of guests (4 adults or 2 adults +3 kids) would be quite a bit cheaper. Each could probably pay for themselves in about 5 years, assuming their occupancy rate was similar to what we've managed with our existing accomodation these last 2 Summers. These figures probably aren't realistic to most people, though, as we have a our own pine woodland, so wouldn't need to buy any logs, and would most definitely not be paying average labour rates, as there are lots of log home builders competing for business round here.

It will be good when we can restructure things, tax wise, so that I take on the B&B business. Unfortunately at the moment I'm still on a visitor's visa, so it's all officially my husband's income...but I'm expecting PR any day now

Many thanks for your replies, comments and links, people - and keep 'em coming !

My 'fantasy' B&B would not be in Cochrane - I'm not sure there is a market here.

I have googled B&B in various areas, I can see what they charge. I can see how much they are selling for.
What is considered a good occupancy rate? I think I am heading more to a summer/winter idea than a city operation. If I want high occupancy in June/July/August then say, Dec/Jan/Feb - that gives me approx 25 weeks to generate an annual income. Any other visitors might be a bonus or an area to market more strongly later on ...

In my own head, I figured 5 to 6 rooms would be a minimum to generate a living. Anything less would be a supplemental income ?

I suspect it might be wise to start small, see if it suits, learn, practise and make mistakes on a small oufit, then move onwards if its a good fit all round?

Big properties cost big money. I presume a comprehensive business plan is required before approaching anyone for a business/loan or mortgage.

"Overwhelming", "deep-end" and "risk" all come to mind

But I'm a sociable, sensible, hard-working soul. It might work

Wow, I wish there were round here - I adore log homes. There's one that went on the market near Halifax recently but it was priced at $1 million. Not enourmous (about 2500sq ft) but the novelty obviously attracts a real premium.

In some area B & B's are limited to a small number of rooms e.g. where we were a B & B could have up to 3 rooms, after which they are considered and inn and then hotel. Different rules apply in different areas.

Business plan - if you want to borrow from a financial institution for a business venture, essential. Even if you don't borrow, still highly recommended. A business plan is a bit like a map, you know where you start from, where you want to end up, the plan helps you get there.

Retreats also seem very popular in Alberta - anything from religious affairs to art classes to simple relaxation/therapies. This suits the tipi idea quite well also. This one is for sale near Red Deer - house doesn't look up to much but the land etc looks good - and the tipis are already there: http://www.welist.com/listings_detai...listing=28957#

If the accommodation you go for also has a larger space like a converted barn or extra room over a garage - you could supplement your b and b business with some of these activities maybe. That might extend your season somewhat. I teach Reiki and and am often asked if I would teach a larger group - I could do this if I had a larger on-site facility. These requests can come any time of year - and people tend be more willing to travel over here - thus b and b is still needed.

A larger facility in a picturesque setting would also do well for smaller wedding receptions. The b and b we stayed in when we first arrived is in Devon on the outskirts of Edmonton. They now have a converted barn in addition to a few rooms in the house itself - the barn is often full with wedding guests or guests for other functions.