Riddle me this
 

Ok so like a good little BEer I read the job hunting pages, and contacted some people.

One of the resumes I sent was onward referred to another person (ccing me). So I have been tryng to contact the second person, called, emailed, followed up again, no response at all.

I am starting to feel like a stalker or just a jerk, but in my world, responding (especially as it seemed to be a referral I could follow up) is just plain professionalism no?

After reading around here I now 'get' that some Canadians are like this but really?!

I guess I will still thank the original manager, but some things here are giving me weird vibes.

If it was me, I can tell someone straight what a situation is!

Re: Riddle me this
 

You should definitely thank the person. a) You can't complain about others' lack of manners if you don't have them yourself, and b) they are much more likely to help you in the future if the opportunity arises.

It is not some, it is the way it is.

When you see ads in the paper there is often small wording at the bottom: we thank all applicants for their interest but will only contact those selected for interview. If it is not written it is implied.

Many Brits think this is rude or unprofessional. It is neither. It is just the way things are done here. It is in accordance with accepted standards of behaviour. In the UK you might get a "thanks but no thanks" form letter printed by some spotty work experience oik. How are you any better off? Here, if someone is interested in you they will respond. If they are not they won't. If you don't hear back within a few days you just assume there is nothing doing and move on.

In your circumstances I think it acceptable to follow up once. Maybe to say something along the lines of, "I understand that you are not hiring at present but if you can spare me a few minutes I would certainly appreciate your insight on the current market." Something informal so there is no pressure on either of you and no loss of face if nothing comes of it.

More than one follow up will make you seem like a nuisance.

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Bolded & sized up cos I agree and I think (since this comes a LOT) immigrants need to bear this in mind.

Don't take it personally - it's not. As JBE said, it's how things are done here. If you can take the emotion out of it it will make job hunting easier.

Re: Riddle me this
 

We have been applying for things as well, and in a few instances have had resumes forwarded by recruiters, friends, etc. Where we have the name we have given it a week, followed up usually by email, sometimes with a phone call (depending on the relationship), given it another week, tried again, and then after a last third attempt, just left it alone.

For some, we've then left it a few weeks, and then gotten back in touch to see if anything new has come up... but you have to take it all with a grain of salt. I'm Canadian and used to it, but my British husband is struggling with how forward he has to be and how many times he has to email the same people. It's just an adjustment!

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I love all the justification for unprofessionalism and bad manners. "Its just the way its done here." :rofl:

Its not btw. For each of the positions my partner applied and didn't get, the head of either the organization or HR called personally, and on two occasions offered to take her for lunch to discuss why they didn't hire her and what she could to do improve her application. Point is, not all Canadians are dickheads and they do know how to behave well, its just many of them choose not to.

Re: Riddle me this
 

One day I flew from Tokyo to Hong Kong. At a coffee shop in Narita Airport I was handed my change on a small plate by a young woman who blowed demurely and looked her feet until I had taken it. In Hong Kong I went to buy a ticket for the hydrofoil. A similarly aged young woman threw my change at me as she barked the equivalent of, "yes, what do you want?" to the person behind me.

Should I have been offended by one, or the other, or should I have accepted that I was being treated appropriately according to the regular custom of both people?

Re: Riddle me this
 

but she's a senior exec, no? I think the rules change at that level.

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wow, font size 4 is big, as it turns out.

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I hope you pinched some biscuits while she was staring at her feet.

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Freudian slip? :rofl:

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Good advice, esp about taking the emotion out of it ...thanks.. admittedly though the reason I had thought this odd is because it was not a job application with the inherent caveat. It was a senior manager referring it to another. For job applications I have taken it as a natural rejection. I thought more personal intros were different.

Anyway, cheers.

Re: Riddle me this
 

That's why I wasn't paying attention to the biscuits.

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Canadian business protocol as with social protocol is generally much more casual. No matter how friendly or genuine someone appears to be, it's better to take it with a grain of salt until (and if) you really know that person.

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:rofl::rofl:

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Point is they can behave when its important to them. :)

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I have 'temped' as the spotty work exp oik, since arriving in Canada, whose sole job was to reply to unsuccessful work applicants...my respect however, for the companies that took the trouble to say No Thank You was, and is,vast.

Re: Riddle me this
 

OK, another thing to get used to and learn (When I say something, I generally mean it and do it...so old fashioned! :frown:) :)

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~That is true of almost everyone, I think. But that is not a good standard IMO. Disappointing, but accepted. :thumbup:

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Not in my experience. I went for an interview recently in Vancouver, which is around 8 hours driving round trip, so involves considerable time and effort. Spent 3 hours being interviewed by the CEO, Chairman and 2 VPs. All very cordial and friendly.

I followed up with a thank you for your time and the opportunity, look forward to hearing from you sort of email. No response. Follow up voicemails x2. No response. I don't mind a thanks, but no thanks reply, but no feedback at all after being short listed is pretty poor, and unfortunately reflects badly on them IMO.

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The could still be considering you or have someone else on whom they are awaiting a response. Nevertheless, if you left a direct request for an update via voicemail, it's pretty poor form.

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I think it's just variable. I've applied for a few jobs online, and for three of them I've gotten a response back thanking me for my interest but I have not been selected for the position. And all these postings were ones that had the small print of "only candidates who have been selected will be contacted".

A few years ago, my brother interviewed with the company I work for (in another division). He went for two interviews, then had radio silence. He followed up twice and had no response. I tried emailing, no response. I had one of the head partners follow up, no response.

Some people are just douchebags, and some people are very nice. It's entirely variable.

I think the moral of the story is to expect them all to be douchebags, and then just be pleasantly surprised at the handful who turn out to actually be humans. :)

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Gawd... viva la Canada :frown: But OK a good strategy ;)

Re: Riddle me this
 

Rich, sorry to hear that. And hopefully they will come back with a positive answer.

Your situation reminded me of mine (yours is worse of course) I just found it baffling that they would not simply answer. Isn't that easier?..I have worked in quite a few countries but this is actually completely new to me (OK yes, yes it is sinking in :thumbup:)

I wonder if it is something to do with that they have such little respect for candidates (that big a pool of fish to pick from) and/or that they are 'supposed' to be nice/polite people, and would only serve good news?

Anyway I am sorry to hear of that. Best of luck in your search.

floatsy

Re: Riddle me this
 

It's not uncommon in the UK these days. As Schnook said, the best thing is set your expectation (of employer contact) low, and then be pleasantly surprised when they respond.

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+1 I live by that mantra, I expect very little and then when it works out well its a bonus :)

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I think after 6 weeks without contact the opportunity has passed.

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sounds like a crap company anyway.

IMO, stupidly short-sighted on their part. What if they wanted to hire you later? idiots.

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It's the Canadian way is it not?

From what others have said above, locals would just accept it as par for the course. I agree with you, though.

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for minion type jobs, yes. But at a senior level? Like there's so much good senior exec talent flying around in BC? I think it's short-sighted.

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Just to add some positive bells and whistles on my depressing thread :) there have been others who have all responded professionally to my "reach outs". In my old ancient world, responding was just called professionalism. But I will adapt. :zzz: PS one of the ones who ignored is a Brit. Guess adaption is par for the course :ohmy:

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Not sure its adapatation, as per whats been previously said there are twats everywhere and they could move to another country but they would still be a twat.

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A rather sweeping judgement perhaps? You don't know this person, they might take the "when in Rome" attitude. You don't have to like it, but it seems you will have to lump it. That's they way it's done over there, because it's different to what you are used to here, or somewhere else in the world, doesn't make it wrong. Canadian employers possibly think UK employers are weird in they way they do contact people who they are not going to employ. They might also think less of UK potential employees who can't take nothing for an answer, as opposed to "no thanks". But I don't know.
Let's see how we act having spent 10 years over there if and when we need to hire someone..

Re: Riddle me this
 

My dad works in an industry that's not doing wonderfully at the moment (though it's recovering). I asked him about his job experiences yesterday; he was job hunting about two years ago, but he's seen a huge mix of responses from companies. One company called him after the second interview to say they weren't proceeding with him, but game him some useful feedback. Another one he did SIX interviews, and then just had radio silence. He tried following up, as did the recruiter who set him up in the first place, and the company didn't respond to either of them. SIX interviews!!!

So there was a pretty big mix of responses, some were nice and some were just douchey. For what it's worth, my dad was applying to reasonably senior positions as well, and still had the mix of responses even at that level!

Re: Riddle me this
 

I don't go with the when in Rome concept though, as I do not feel all Canadian employers are like as suggested not willing to send a thank but no thanks communication. I think its more to do with certain peoples attitudes, most of the employers I have contacted In Canada have responded to me, so I would not generalise that all employers in Canada do not bother to contact people. Hence why I suggested perhaps this Brit was the way he was prior to his arrival in Canada and was not merely adapting to a perceived culture.

Re: Riddle me this
 

Well I was recently dealing with a travel company -- I checked a few and decided to go for a cheaper company. The first company emailed me a couple of weeks later to follow up. I could definitely have ignored her. She was a "nobody", they would always take my business again ie. consequences were neglible, there were a hundred other reps in that company, and they didn't have the best price anyway.

Regardless, she sent a personal message and I emailed her back, thanked her for her great service, commended her to her manager (as she was courteous throughout). And I am living in a country where manners is not first rate.

Sure you can take on whatever habits you want to, but please don't give others a hard time about choosing who ya gonna be.

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I'm not suggesting everyone automatically has to adopt the Canadian way of treating candidates / customers, but some immigrants will choose to do just that, and others won't. I hope I'll keep my British manners, but only time will tell.
The only person I was giving a remotely tough time to was Mikeypm as I thought he was being rather judgemental about someone whom we don't know anything. That person might well be a t*at, but they might just be in a position where they have chosen to act like their Canadian boss, perhaps against their better instincts.

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Your "reach outs"?! No wondering your applications are trending red.

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"Reaching out". Right up there with "going forward", "socialise x", and "diarise this meeting".

I work in Consulting, and I spent about 95% of the time wanting to blow my brains out.

/offtopic

Re: Riddle me this
 

This particular person was an independent, but noted.

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You think that is the reason? Funny.