Re: Returning to the UK
 

As long as you've got a few posts under your belt, you'll avoid being labelled an antagonistic troll. So crack on. :lol:

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Rules like no alcohol for 24 hours prior to starting work is hardly "nanny state" stuff. How would you feel if I showed up to take you on a flight reeking of alcohol ? Not too thrilled I suspect. Rules like that are generally for the protection of the public.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

yes I probably am going on a bit of hearsay from her...but I do trust her judgement.. As she has experienced 2 sides of the pond. As well as the in laws.

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I am here to learn as well,so rather than brand what I say as nonsense..educate!

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I'm not sure it's really anyone else's job to educate you, but go on, what do you want to know? I don't think what you say is nonsense, but considering the size of Canada and the diversity of the UK and Europe, I think for every UK Nanny state example you'll likely find someone on here with a similar Canadian example.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

What's this 'rule' about no drinking within 24h of work? I can understand for pilots or surgeon or other public at risk roles, but is it more widespread than that?

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yes your correct there will be similarities, differences, pros and cons. but that's why I'm here..not really asking to be educated in anything specific...just yet.lol.just referencing the fact the reason most of us are on here to learn. I still have long way to go and have briefly touched the tip of the iceberg.
I'm all for research and getting stuck in.

going back to why I think it's a 'nanny state' when it comes to kids. is that there are so many restrictions here of what they can and can't do. whether it be in schools,outside activities etc
maybe this is still the case in Canada, but swings and roundabouts.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Probably the best way to educate yourself about the process of getting here is to have a really good read of the Wiki section. It's the fourth tab from the left on the blue bar above. It contains a wealth of knowledge and should answer most of your questions.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

AFAIK this sort of restriction is limited to "public at risk" roles.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Phew!

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On BE we have an alternative saying to the grass on the other side of the fence etc...'same sh*t...different bucket' and it's very true. :lol:

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Was 12 hours everywhere I have worked, but only the safety sensitive jobs (all aviation related) really enforced the rule, the other employers really didn't care as long as you didn't come to work drunk, smelling like booze or drinking on the job, although at my last hotel we did have a guy who couldn't resist vodka in his coffee, but he eventually got fired for drinking on the job.


Unless one has an above average income and can afford the Vancouver lifestyle, I'd say pretty much anywhere in the developed countries would be better. Vancouver and the lower mainland are nice, but without a decent income, you can't enjoy or take part of the lifestyle for the most part, so in the end might be better off elsewhere.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

That is not uncommon, our businesses are all 'scent/perfume free' Many folks have allergies, myself included, some scents trigger quite unpleasant consequences. I have had to leave or move in a theatre or restaurant because of some pretty horrible perfumes.

One quite ridiculous bylaw we have is having to get a permit to have a bonfire. Outdoor burning is restricted to 2 two month periods in a year and we have to get a permit for each period.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Air regs only require flight crews not to consume alcohol 8 hours prior to flying. One cannot be under the influence though.

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I take it you have children in the UK then? I haven't found having children in Canada any different to having children in the UK. I have no experience of these restrictions that apply to those poor old Brit kids. There are many things that are lovely about Canada but honestly it's not that different. I imagine if you live in a city then it's a very similar experience indeed and if you live rurally then you have to travel a lot further to get your children to activities that were round the corner in the UK.

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I don't see it as ridiculous, as far as I am concerned outdoor burning should be banned altogether along with fireplaces when it comes to non-rural regions.

The smoke from my neighbors fireplace sets off my respiratory issues just as bad as any other pollutant. Winter is down right miserable because of all the smoke in the air.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

:confused: like what?

I have 2 children and I can't think of any 'restrictions' on them that wouldn't exist in Canada, so I'd love a couple of examples of what you mean by this?

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1) They're not supposed to smoke MaryJane.

2) People would ridicule them if they spoke about Iced Hockey.

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We've had kids born in Canada (2 daughters), the UK (1 son) and the US (1 daughter). We have found differences between Canada/US and the UK although this might just be anecdotal.

Hospitals - the hospitals where our kids were born in Canada were excellent. Very clean and the staff were brilliant. Our first was born in Toronto and it was not an easy birth but the staff handled it very well. Our son was born at Northwick Park Hospital in London and the place was a shambles. Even the toilet doors were hanging off including the one for the public bathroom in the main corridor. The staff did their best but they were obviously under great stress and this affected their performance. My wife is a nurse and she did sympathize with them. My son was in difficulties after birth (he had been born with the umbilical cord around his neck). He needed a shot of some drug but the nurse couldn't find the drug and then also couldn't find a syringe. It was a nightmare. I wasn't surprised to read about serious issues at Northwick Park maternity unit in subsequent years (e.g. higher mortality rates for mothers and infants). Google it for yourself if interested.

Schools - in Canada, the school system is easy to understand. Where you live pretty much dictates which schools your kids will go to. In the UK, it's not as simple. We lived in London at the time that we were trying to enroll our oldest in a decent local school. Again, a nightmare. It was one of the last few straws that broke the camel's back for us in terms of staying in the UK.

Recreational Facilities - there are many things I could say about recreational facilities in the UK in general. We got so fed up going to playgrounds (all over the country) only to find broken glass, litter, dog poop, graffiti, etc. I had to inspect everywhere before I could allow the kids to play. Then there were the foul-mouthed chavs who had nothing better to do than hang out at playgrounds/parks and get up to no good because there was nothing better for them to do.

General view on children - we just didn't find the UK to be as child-friendly as Canada. Attitudes towards children are just different. I remember my wife and kids stopping off at a pub restaurant in the early afternoon somewhere on the way from London to Brighton. We wanted to get some lunch but we were told that the kids weren't welcome.

Now obviously some of this stuff may also happen in Canada but it certainly seems to be more common in the UK. At least in our experience.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I guess that's just area though and it's easier to move area than it is to move country. My son has a lot more outdoor space here but that's simply because of where we chose to live in the UK as opposed to here. We could have provided that same environment by moving rurally. The parks thing you mentioned again didn't apply in my area. They were all very well kept and no "chav's" (I hate that word-disrespectful in itself) as you say.

Ironically we moved because of my husbands job as a GP...he is now frantically missing the UK system as this one is nowhere near as good. The green is starting to wear off and he can see where all the faults lie. I don't deny that you may have had a bad experience and I'm a nurse too and had two great hospital births so my point is that both countries are essentially the same - well they are not because the UK health system is better (not my words and I can provide a link).

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+1. I totally agree it's down to area, but I also think it's down to the fact that it was a long time ago that MarylandNed lived in the UK. Certainly now you'd struggle to find a pub that isn't family friendly in the UK, whereas back then it was probably more common.

I couldn't fault the hospital I had my children at (private room, daughter born with disability and the care was tremendous etc), we have a choice of 6 schools for my daughter's secondary education next year (whereas London would be very different), and the parks around here are fine from my limited experience (we're not really a park going kind of family!).

I personally think where we are in the UK offers our children a lot more than Vancouver did, but a bit part of that is that we live in a rural location where they have 1.5 acres and farmland to run around on (so we're the opposite to you with regards to space!), where we don't lock our doors and where there's not a chav in sight. No doubt if we were raising them in a city location I'd feel very differently.

I'm still very interested to know what 'restrictions' Aqua-matt thinks children in the UK face that they wouldn't in Canada (particularly as on reading his post, it appears he doesn't have kids yet), but he's obviously not seen the post yet.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Agree with the child friendly pubs (out of town) and fantastic maternity / post-natal care from the NHS hospitals we used. On the parks and chavs, it really does depend on where you live, but I imagine there is some truth in what MNed's says.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

As I had said in the original post "yes Canada may have these as well.....etc etc " so I'm not painting a picture perfect scene of Canadian schooling or child hood.
no, I don't have kids(not sure why that would grant me with special powers of observation)and as already pointed out there's a bit of hearsay within the statement. But from someone /people with experiences of both sides.
again as already brought up, it could well be area dependent and to people's experiences.
so from my
it could be anything from not being able to use a pair of scissors in a primary art class right up to an A-level student( 16-17 old enough to ride a scooter or drive a car) not allowed to use a hammer in tech class .My experience of school was not the best and from what I've heard from younger family members still within the system it's no better, if not worse in that respect.
outside school there's a lack of activities and IMO a decreasing amount of them.maybe this is due to the increasing paperwork having to be filled out in the way of health and safety, risk assessments and checks that need to be done before they can even allow a kid to hold a tennis racket..people just can't be bothered to do it over here .so maybe that's the problem...The people with a can't be arsed attitude.

If this is the same or you feel its the same over there ill retract my statement.
but from my experiences of school and childhood outside , along with the current opinions of those still in school over here and that of my better half who's been in both UK/canadian schools.and various other sources and views..also with what Marylandned has highlighted.

i still stand by , i would not want to bring my kids up in the uk.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I think it does matter if you don't have kids, as You don't have first hand experience, you said yourself it's hearsay. And very peculiar hearsay too! I can't imagine what kind of school wouldn't let kids do those things.

My children have now been to 3 different primary schools in the UK, they've had scissors at all of them, my daughter made me a birdbox for Mothers Day this year (using a hammer at age 9 - incidentally, they have both always had cooking lessons and been taught to use knives from age 6 onwards too).

Between them they do tennis, rugby, football, ballet, swimming, horse riding and free after school clubs such as 'Mad Science' and 'Zumba' (at their primary school they have a choice of 20 after school clubs a week for free or a nominal amount, so I'd disagree that extracurricular activities are 'decreasing' - They could be busy every spare minute if they wanted, doing everything from ice hockey to chess club!).

The only one of their extra-curricular activities I've ever had to sign a waiver form at was horse riding, my son was allowed to pick up a tennis racket at age 4 onwards without any problems!

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Consider yourself and your kids lucky then.
For many it's not the case...just because it's not the case for yourself, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, should be discounted or prescribed as peculiar hearsay..

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Fair comment.

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Peculiar hearsay:
my partner/wife born, raised in Canada moved to the UK after primary education for a "better" education. Both parents and herself have come to the conclusion that it was mistake to move her here.(thankful they did otherwise we wouldn't of met, I have known her since she arrived and through some quite nasty bullying from the TEACHERS and students tried incredibly hard to loose her accent)

Mother in law, currently works within the UK secondary schooling system, administration...described it as a shambles and wonders why half the kids turn out like they do. With teachers themselves lacking in the ability to teach or want to.

Wife's uncle in canada,2 kids currently attending elementary in Coquitlam area, he works as a curriculum course designer(or some long winded title within the education dept)at the Simon fraser Uni,
Recently visited the UK, and was less than impressed with what was on offer in the area and the local schools.. (yes like has been said previously, this could be down to area..so ill state this is the south east/london) even with the recent teachers strikes in BC was thankful of the schooling and the coming together of the community when it was happening...It certainly wouldn't happen here(not in this area anyway)
Also wanted to know what the "teens" were doing hanging around certain areas..."are they waiting for clubs to open?"
No.....I'm afraid that's what they do.

Long time friend, headmistress at a UK primary school,she is from Toronto..half the stuff she has to adhere to over her she wouldn't even dream of even being considered in the Canadian schools she's taught at. as for after school activities non existent, no matter what she attempts to put forward..people don't want to know. to many risks.

my uncle,aunt+kids. moved to NZ 8 years ago,recently came back for a months visit..ready to go back home after a week. Their kids both below 10, active, outgoing and respectful.
when comparing their lives, schooling, activities etc to that of my 2 step brothers of similar age here in the UK, couldn't really contain their disbelief and said it would be cruel to subject their kids to moving back over here..The thought almost laughable.

I will retract my first post, to save any further debates on that. But I will standby what saw in regards to if and when we have kids, they will not be raised in the UK.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Interesting Matt, but the problem is that you are tarring the whole of the UK with the same brush. There are plenty of problems with inner-city schools in London, ditto after school activities. But you have to compare apples with apples. You can't compare Coquitlam to SE London. Many families choose to move out of London when the kids reach school age precisely because getting decent schooling in London is a formidable task. Having said that, there are many many fantastic schools in London and across Britain, the national curriculum is a bit restrictive, but at least it ensures a base level of consistency. There are plenty of people who post on the Canada forum that despite all the merits of living in Canada, they find the schools there quite behind in certain subjects and practices. I am always suspicious when some wanting to emigrates cites the "country is going to the dogs" reason. Never the case, always down to personal circumstances. In which case, it's better to simply state that you think you can do better for yourself in Canada, which may well be true. But how about your GF, after she's put all that hard work into losing her Canadian accent, does she have to regain it again?!

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I'm not really tarring the whole UK, I also have consistently said 'area depending' after my first post and agreed with many of the responses on here. think we're dwelling on my first post too much. my bad if it or I came across with a black brush swiping across the UK.. my last posts are merely justifying why I have the opinions and thoughts that I do, should they change which I expect they will. I'll certainly come back and voice them.

overall I think life is what you make of it wherever you are and our reasons for wanting to move to Canada are not solely based on bringing up kids.
her accent for one lol..I'm sure she'll done fine on that one :lol:

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I think you're having us on. A place where the teachers are on strike necessarily offers a poorer education than one where they are not.

BC leads the western world in teacher's strikes.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Overall, that is simply not backed up by the facts and is therefore likely to be simply anecdotal. If you look at the OECD rankings of how 15 and 16 year olds are doing, Canada consistently beats the UK in all 3 categories of math, reading, and science.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...lume-I-ENG.pdf

Personally, I think the two countries are close enough in terms of education for it not to be a major factor in deciding which country to live in (although there will obviously be local variations in standards).

Canada also has some top class universities (e.g. UofT, McGill, UBC, etc) and university tuition fees in Canada are now a bargain compared to the UK.

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I find this statement really irritating. There are many reasons for wanting to move but I really dislike justifying it with slating another country. Especially when you're comparing first world to first world country.

The trouble was Matt you said I would not bring children up in the UK...I can completely understand not wanting to bring children up in a particular part of London but I suspect that could be said for a particular part of Toronto or Vancouver too (not that I am well versed in either place but they are a city so...
And so it's easy to move from where you live than generalise and say the whole of the UK is bad. Hopefully you will choose an area in Canada to live in where you don't encounter what your gf did. I think this is probably the key to feeling smug and like you've made a better choice, but of course you could do that in the UK too..

Re: Returning to the UK
 

So kids where you are aren't allowed to pick up a tennis racket? Seriously?! I find that so astonishing that to me, it is peculiar. All 3 schools that my children have been at have had tennis as a standard sport from the age of 4. Ditto scissors etc, so when I say it's 'peculiar', I simply mean that it's definitely not the norm in the UK and must be specific to a particularly namby pamby school.

Fair enough, so it seems it really is just your area. All of the above is completely alien to me, as said above I live in an area with huge amounts of extra curricular activities, where few lock their doors, and where there's a great community spirit. But then it's rural Berkshire, and not London. I wouldn't raise kids in London for all the money in the world either!

And I've chosen to raise mine in the UK rather than Canada. Different strokes for different folks and all that, certainly the life we have here couldn't be bettered in any way in Canada other than skiing more often!

:)

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Thread swerve alert: I disagree with that. While the teachers are on strike the pupils learn important life skills like organizing and acting in the community's best interest rather than their own, as well as realizing how inadequate their parents are at such stuff.

After the teachers are on strike, if they are successful in the strike goals, they will be more motivated and professionally secure, thus be better teachers than those who have been downtrodden and demoralized by governments.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

Meh.

The hospitals I experienced with my babies were grotty, run down, tatty and cold (winter). Maternity/NICU units in Ontario. No personal experience in the UK, but all of the ones I visited were much better.

Our small city currently has a $300 million infrastructure deficit because it hasn't been kept on top of. The roads are a mess, the sewers are crumbling, and it's getting steadily worse every year. Also in Ontario.

There are lots of extra curricular activities for kids here, mainly put on by private organisations, the city, local library and art gallery, very little at the school except for school teams. They range from free to exorbitant and everything in between. Friends who lived here for a year have told us there was a lot more available in this regard for their children in the UK.

If I wanted to take my children out of school in the UK, then I could be fined. Here, they don't seem to care. My children would likely learn more in the way of critical thinking elsewhere, but we are here, so we'll have to try and teach them that ourselves.

On balance, it's fairly balanced I think. I'd rather move to New Zealand ;)

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I was going to add that activities in the UK are widespread and varied and don't cost an absolute fortune unlike here...

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Agreed. Swimming locally here for our little family costs a small fortune.

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For swimming we pay $11 for a family of 4.

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Hospitals in Canada range from really nice and new to old, outdated, over crowded and nasty.

My local hospital is decent, but small and lacks the technology of a large hospital (no MRI/Cat Scan for example) but they handle the basic stuff well, anything major and your flown/driven to Vancouver.

Vancouver hospitals are hit and miss, part of VGH for example are new and quite nice, other area's still haven't been updated and are in buildings that are 70+ years old.

Overall the BC government is updating and modernizing our hospitals, but it wont be and can't be done overnight or all at once, the money doesn't exist to do that, but they are doing things.

Re: Returning to the UK
 

I meant a swimming club... I pay three times as much here for my son to swim at club level (it's about $400 a term)..actually that goes for soccer/football too.