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realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:24 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy View Post
It seems that the only person here defending Realtors is Stuart.

Do we presume the other realtors (at least one of whom is only too keen to self promote when the opportunity arises (how are things in Van today?)) feel that their 'position' is indefensible? OR are they currently so busy they dont have time (things looking good south of Calgary guys?) OR do they also see the futility of yet another property/realtor thread?
I am pleased to see that they haven't taken away your stirring stick.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:26 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy View Post
It seems that the only person here defending Realtors is Stuart.

Do we presume the other realtors (at least one of whom is only too keen to self promote when the opportunity arises (how are things in Van today?)) feel that their 'position' is indefensible? OR are they currently so busy they dont have time (things looking good south of Calgary guys?) OR do they also see the futility of yet another property/realtor thread?
An advantage of using a realtor in Calgary is that she offers comprehensive knowledge of the laundry regulations, sightlines to other peoples' smalls and so on. If breeze in your bloomers is important she's a compendium of information not available online.

Warmly,

dbd
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy View Post
It seems that the only person here defending Realtors is Stuart.

Do we presume the other realtors (at least one of whom is only too keen to self promote when the opportunity arises (how are things in Van today?)) feel that their 'position' is indefensible? OR are they currently so busy they dont have time (things looking good south of Calgary guys?) OR do they also see the futility of yet another property/realtor thread?
This has been an interesting thread so far - a bit like the old days of BE when I used to lurk. Also I should add that I appreciate Stuart's input (tho I can see how it doesn't appear that way)
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:27 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Interesting anecdote. I've highlighted what I think is something quite important. In the UK you can do that yourself using mouseprice.com or nethouseprices.co.uk, is there such a service in Canada?
I think that this site: http://www.housevalues.ca/ might provide comparable values.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:30 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
An advantage of using a realtor in Calgary is that she offers comprehensive knowledge of the laundry regulations, sightlines to other peoples' smalls and so on. If breeze in your bloomers is important she's a compendium of information not available online.

Warmly,

dbd
Good point, sadly I'm not a bloomer wearer and from my windows I can see the nubile young things conducting 'business' in the condo across so have no need (or desire) to watch my neighbours bloomers billowing in the breeze.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:30 pm
  #96  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by sharkus View Post
I think that this site: http://www.housevalues.ca/ might provide comparable values.
Its just a lead generating site, the service is sold to Realtors, it costs a Realtor about US$800 per month to belong.

Fill in their form, they pass the Info on to a local subscribing Realtor, who then contacts you.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:44 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Me neither - I don't hate realtors. I dislike the system - realtors are just individuals working within it and as such they will naturally defend it. As I said, if I was selling I'd probably use a realtor as I can kind of see the value they add - but as a purchaser I can't see it at all really and it bugs me that I'll be paying for nothing.
Estate agents/realtors for sales/marketing is fine. As you say for purchasing there is minimal value at significant cost. Even worse than paying for nothing, when buying you're running the risk of paying for the privilege of being duped by the realtor showing you properties which maximise their commission rather than meet your requirements. I'm sure it can be done with great subtlety by the unscrupulous ones.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by jimf View Post
Estate agents/realtors for sales/marketing is fine. As you say for purchasing there is minimal value at significant cost. Even worse than paying for nothing, when buying you're running the risk of paying for the privilege of being duped by the realtor showing you properties which maximise their commission rather than meet your requirements. I'm sure it can be done with great subtlety by the unscrupulous ones.
You are wrong on every single point.

The Value of a Buyers Agent is in:-

Pointing out the Good & Bad points of a House.
Preparing a valuation for any home you are looking to buy, so you know its market value when you make an offer.
Writing -up the offer to purchase to favor YOU rather than the seller.
Negotiation on your behalf to get the best deal for you.
Dealing with a professional, who if he/she does get it wrong is accountable.

It costs you - NOTHING due to the nature of the MLS.

YOU choose what properties you want to go and see and YOU choose what one you want to buy - Not the Realtor. On our MLS I can NOT even search by commission payable.

I agree that this used to happen a lot in the past when some unscrupulous Realtors did do this. Its a lot harder now, as you can scan the MLS and pick out house yourself, you are not reliant solely on the listings a Realtor sends you. Also it is specifically against our laws to discriminate against a property due to the commission being paid. So if you ever suspect that this is happening report them to the local real estate board.


IT IS VERY FOOLISH TO DEAL WITH THE SELLERS REALTOR, WHO'S JOB IS TO REPRESENT THE SELLER, NOT YOU.

The Offers to Purchase is always slanted in the sellers favor and needs to be written up in the correct way to bring the balance back to the buyer, Get a Realtor to act as YOUR Buyers Agent, and then YOU are represented properly.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 8:04 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
You are wrong on every single point.

The Value of a Buyers Agent is in:-

Pointing out the Good & Bad points of a House.
Preparing a valuation for any home you are looking to buy, so you know its market value when you make an offer.
Writing -up the offer to purchase to favor YOU rather than the seller.
Negotiation on your behalf to get the best deal for you.
Dealing with a professional, who if he/she does get it wrong is accountable.

It costs you - NOTHING due to the nature of the MLS.

YOU choose what properties you want to go and see and YOU choose what one you want to buy - Not the Realtor. On our MLS I can NOT even search by commission payable.

I agree that this used to happen a lot in the past when some unscrupulous Realtors did do this. Its a lot harder now, as you can scan the MLS and pick out house yourself, you are not reliant solely on the listings a Realtor sends you. Also it is specifically against our laws to discriminate against a property due to the commission being paid. So if you ever suspect that this is happening report them to the local real estate board.


IT IS VERY FOOLISH TO DEAL WITH THE SELLERS REALTOR, WHO'S JOB IS TO REPRESENT THE SELLER, NOT YOU.

The Offers to Purchase is always slanted in the sellers favor and needs to be written up in the correct way to bring the balance back to the buyer, Get a Realtor to act as YOUR Buyers Agent, and then YOU are represented properly.
And that was the party political broadcast for the Realtor Party................. Normal programmes will resume shortly.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 8:06 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by jimf View Post
And that was the party political broadcast for the Realtor Party................. Normal programmes will resume shortly.


It's still all true though.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 8:18 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by jimf View Post
Estate agents/realtors for sales/marketing is fine. As you say for purchasing there is minimal value at significant cost. Even worse than paying for nothing, when buying you're running the risk of paying for the privilege of being duped by the realtor showing you properties which maximise their commission rather than meet your requirements. I'm sure it can be done with great subtlety by the unscrupulous ones.
I have said many times before, but will say again, that a Realtor lives and dies on referrals. It takes years to build up a reputation as the "go-to" person in an area, and it is only these people that make big money. The referrals from a happy client are worth much, much more to a Realtor than the few extra dollars they could earn by persuading you to buy a house you cannot afford.

Secondly, there is great value in using a Realtor as a buyer's agent. Especially so for a new immigrant. The Realtor has local knowledge that you don't have. How else do you find out which are the best neighborhoods, which subdivision will command the best prices when complete, even where the noisy people live. A Realtor told me not to offer on a house because it was $50,000 overpriced. We eventually paid a lot less for a similar house. A good Realtor with local knowledge will be able to tell you how much a property will sell for, within a few thousand dollars, regardless of the listing price.

Thirdly, selling practices in Canada are deceptively similar to the UK. But, you are effectively as green as the day you were born and could be taken to the cleaners by a ruthless seller. Regardless of the channel to market, a property will sell for its fair market value. Unless, that is, one party to the sale doesn't know what they are doing. You really need someone acting on your behalf, at least for the first purchase.

Lastly, don't rely on any great savings by using FSBO sites. The seller uses these sites because they don't want to pay a Realtor. They expect to keep the commission saved. (And, in my experience, often have wildly unrealistic expectations of the value of their house). The buyer knows the seller is not paying commissions and expects a similar discount.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 9:13 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by JonboyE View Post
I have said many times before, but will say again, that a Realtor lives and dies on referrals. It takes years to build up a reputation as the "go-to" person in an area, and it is only these people that make big money. The referrals from a happy client are worth much, much more to a Realtor than the few extra dollars they could earn by persuading you to buy a house you cannot afford.

Secondly, there is great value in using a Realtor as a buyer's agent. Especially so for a new immigrant. The Realtor has local knowledge that you don't have. How else do you find out which are the best neighborhoods, which subdivision will command the best prices when complete, even where the noisy people live. A Realtor told me not to offer on a house because it was $50,000 overpriced. We eventually paid a lot less for a similar house. A good Realtor with local knowledge will be able to tell you how much a property will sell for, within a few thousand dollars, regardless of the listing price.

Thirdly, selling practices in Canada are deceptively similar to the UK. But, you are effectively as green as the day you were born and could be taken to the cleaners by a ruthless seller. Regardless of the channel to market, a property will sell for its fair market value. Unless, that is, one party to the sale doesn't know what they are doing. You really need someone acting on your behalf, at least for the first purchase.

Lastly, don't rely on any great savings by using FSBO sites. The seller uses these sites because they don't want to pay a Realtor. They expect to keep the commission saved. (And, in my experience, often have wildly unrealistic expectations of the value of their house). The buyer knows the seller is not paying commissions and expects a similar discount.
That just sounds like realtor scaremongering. Happy to be proved wrong, but how would a realtor protect you from this (assume that I can get a lawyer to draw up contracts and a surveyor to do the buildings stuff). Unless there is information about property that only realtors can know about that is.

The fact is that despite all my complaints about the crappy canadian realtor system (the UK is bad, but this is a lot worse in terms of value for money), I will still probably use one because while I resent losing the 4% to a purchasers realtor who hasn't done much other than fill in a few details on document templates, I sure as hell don't want it going to the sellers realtor.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 10:38 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
The mls site used to be quite good, it's only recently that it's had that awful interface grafted on. I suppose it's maintained grudgingly as the people paying for it are the people who's livelihood would be threatened by a better implementation.
It certainly has more bells and whistles than it did before. Trouble is, it is a little slow and poorly layed out.

I like the propertyguys site simply because the pictures are generally bigger
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 10:50 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
That just sounds like realtor scaremongering. Happy to be proved wrong, but how would a realtor protect you from this (assume that I can get a lawyer to draw up contracts and a surveyor to do the buildings stuff). Unless there is information about property that only realtors can know about that is.
Just a couple:

1 How do you know how much to offer? You can't just offer 5% less than the listing price. Some places are listed low to encourage offers over, and some are listed at crazily high valuations. A Realtor has ready access to actual selling prices of comparable properties and, hopefully, sufficient knowledge of the factors that influence actual selling prices so they can work out a market value for you.

2 The buy and sell contracts look simple, but an innocent mistake can cost you a fortune (and lawyers administer the contracts, they don't draw them up as a rule). For example, you write a contact and add a condition that the offer is subject to you receiving a mortgage offer within 7 days. That seems fair enough, but you try all the banks and all the brokers but no one is interested. However, the seller offers you a mortgage at 30% interest a year. You are in doo doo. If you had written the subject as a mortgage at 6% interest or better you could happily walk away.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by JonboyE View Post
Just a couple:

1 How do you know how much to offer? You can't just offer 5% less than the listing price. Some places are listed low to encourage offers over, and some are listed at crazily high valuations. A Realtor has ready access to actual selling prices of comparable properties and, hopefully, sufficient knowledge of the factors that influence actual selling prices so they can work out a market value for you.

2 The buy and sell contracts look simple, but an innocent mistake can cost you a fortune (and lawyers administer the contracts, they don't draw them up as a rule). For example, you write a contact and add a condition that the offer is subject to you receiving a mortgage offer within 7 days. That seems fair enough, but you try all the banks and all the brokers but no one is interested. However, the seller offers you a mortgage at 30% interest a year. You are in doo doo. If you had written the subject as a mortgage at 6% interest or better you could happily walk away.
They are both good points - but I would say

1 - You shouldn't need a realtor to find comparibles - is that information not in the public domain. Stuart said it was. Anyway, I wouldn't offer 5% less, I'll be offering a lot less than that. If you aren't embarrassed by your offer you are offering to much as they say

2 - Any offer I make will only be subject to the survey and home report etc and not funding. I wouldn't even make an offer unless I had funding already in place.

3 - Neither of those things is worth 4% of the cost of a property. There is no reason that this couldn't be a fixed price service.
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