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Is it REALLY much better????

Is it REALLY much better????

Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:05 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by alcat2010 View Post
Me too!!

Suppose Im not as gung-ho as I was before the kids came along, but yep. The driving force if im honest is the part of me that feels "I can get / do better than this"

Probably immature but hey,
The adventure is fun but the strain and stress of setting up a new life is pretty hard work. If i was working and living within my means in UK, or anywhere for that matter, i wouldnt budge right now.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:06 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
Isnt the same true of all news? Do we need to know about the MP expense scandal for instance? Do we need to know about civil war in Syria? It's of no consequence to me or you, so why are journalists bothering?

To suggest people should only be concerned about news that directly effects them seems pretty closed minded IMO.
Maybe it is closed minded, but I am more interested in improving my own personal happiness and contentment to be honest.

Government corruption is important, we get to vote for them, but yes, it is somewhat closed minded to chose to ignore some events, or at least shy away from the details, if I think it important I will check out the details, but I am careful about just believing what I am fed by the media, there are few sources that dont have their own spin or agenda to promote on a story anyway. Then again a lot of people dont give a stuff about international affairs and politics anyway.

Part of my own approach to personal contentment is that I sooth my conscience by supporting Amnesty and the Red Cross and MSF who try and make a real difference in these awful circumstances. I dont need to know the gruesome details, although the newsletters try to paint their efforts in a positive light.

The point about disregarding the media to some extent is to make your own life the focus of your attention; work to influence what you can in your life, and dont sweat what is outside your control. The aim is to find a recipe for personal happiness and contentment, not world peace and harmony, so yes, ignorance to some extent can be bliss.

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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:22 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by Piff Poff View Post
Stop reading the papers and watching the news and listening to people think that England has gone to the dogs, if you have a pretty good life and are generally happy, stay where you are. UNLESS you feel that your life will be unfulfilled if you don't give it a go.
I rather like those kind of articles/stories. Especially the ones about overcrowding and booze sodden wretches. I find them refreshingly one-sided and sensationalist. They make for excellent conversation down the pub over a few jars.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:22 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by el_richo View Post
But if my life was being impacted due to changes in perception brought on by issues that in reality have no direct influence...
That's all well and good, but whose life is being impacted due to these so-called "changes in perception" caused by the press? My perception of the UK changed, not because the press were focussing on particular events, but because those events were actually happening.

It's not simply a perception if it's a reality.

As an example, it wasnt the press that made me not want to let my kids play out on the front. It was the fact that I could see broken bottles, the floor splattered with spit/snot, local chavs speeding up and down the street.... and I lived in a decent-ish area (by Manchester standards )

As I said, these are all actual news stories and it's easy to find examples on any given day in any given city.
It still happens, even if the press dont know about it.

What people on here often try and do is to convince others that it's not really happening, that the press are creating a perception of crime... when in fact, all they're really doing is reporting the news.

The BBC articles, for example, arent sensationalist. They're there amongst a selection of other less-grim stories. Yet you're inferring that the press only report bad news/shocking/celeb sex stories. It's not true.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:27 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
Maybe it is closed minded, but I am more interested in improving my own personal happiness and contentment to be honest.

Government corruption is important, we get to vote for them, but yes, it is somewhat closed minded to chose to ignore some events, or at least shy away from the details, if I think it important I will check out the details, but I am careful about just believing what I am fed by the media, there are few sources that dont have their own spin or agenda to promote on a story anyway. Then again a lot of people dont give a stuff about international affairs and politics anyway.

Part of my own approach to personal contentment is that I sooth my conscience by supporting Amnesty and the Red Cross and MSF who try and make a real difference in these awful circumstances. I dont need to know the gruesome details, although the newsletters try to paint their efforts in a positive light.

The point about disregarding the media to some extent is to make your own life the focus of your attention; work to influence what you can in your life, and dont sweat what is outside your control. The aim is to find a recipe for personal happiness and contentment, not world peace and harmony, so yes, ignorance to some extent can be bliss.
Fair enough Ian, but with respect, you're saying this from the comfort of your own home, a million miles from anywhere that has the issues we're talking about. It's a little easy for people to sit here saying "dont read the news" when they're not living and breathing it.

I suspect you'd have a different opinion if you was living in Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds, B'ham etc.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:31 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

On the other hand, those things are not happening all over the UK, in all parts.

So if you live in say sleepy north bedfordshire, and you read about hooded chavs running lawless through Moss Side, it may well alter your perspective when you enounter an unknown 15 year old (who for all you know is a straight A scholar athelete) hanging around, waiting for his mum to pick him up in the car....

Its about balance.

Ive family and friends spread around the UK, and there still lots of nice bits to live in. Come to Canada because Canada appeals to you for some reason, not because its far from where you are now. There are probably closer solutions to home to the problem of antisocial neighbours. They may be more expensive, but immigration aint cheap anyway..
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:33 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
Fair enough Ian, but with respect, you're saying this from the comfort of your own home, a million miles from anywhere that has the issues we're talking about. It's a little easy for people to sit here saying "dont read the news" when they're not living and breathing it.

I suspect you'd have a different opinion if you was living in Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds, B'ham etc.
I lived in Leeds for 7 years, and was never robbed. I may be in a minority of one though

Also, my sleepy area was the center of a major mediastorm last year when the base commander was found to be a serial killer, but it didnt really say anything to me about my life here.

As the post above indicates, I have family and friends in the UK who have managed to find places to live without broken glass in the street, and who let their kids play outside.... its not all bad, so leaving for Canada is not the only option.

Last edited by iaink; Jun 14th 2012 at 7:36 pm.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:40 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
On the other hand, those things are not happening all over the UK, in all parts.
Its about balance.
I agree, and this is my point. There is plenty of balance in the news.

But the vast majority of the population lives in/around the major urban centres, where these types of issues are a) not only visible, but b) frequent enough to be a concern to those living there
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:43 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
That's all well and good, but whose life is being impacted due to these so-called "changes in perception" caused by the press? My perception of the UK changed, not because the press were focussing on particular events, but because those events were actually happening.

It's not simply a perception if it's a reality.

As an example, it wasnt the press that made me not want to let my kids play out on the front. It was the fact that I could see broken bottles, the floor splattered with spit/snot, local chavs speeding up and down the street.... and I lived in a decent-ish area (by Manchester standards )

As I said, these are all actual news stories and it's easy to find examples on any given day in any given city.
It still happens, even if the press dont know about it.

What people on here often try and do is to convince others that it's not really happening, that the press are creating a perception of crime... when in fact, all they're really doing is reporting the news.

The BBC articles, for example, arent sensationalist. They're there amongst a selection of other less-grim stories. Yet you're inferring that the press only report bad news/shocking/celeb sex stories. It's not true.
No, what people on here try to do is put perspective into things. There's a huge difference in living with such issues and readin about such issues (experience versus perception). I would guess the majority of readers who alter their perception based on media are not actually impacted. You only have to read some of the reasons on here to see that.

The crazy generalizations on this board seem to be born from the media.

Either way, I'm much happier not reading doom and gloom that has no impact on my life. I have nothing to gain from reading about a strangers murder, rape, violence, drugs, bing drinking, chavs, hoodies, or immigrants. If I'm in a position that I need to know, then so be it.

It's not ignorance to choose to stay away from such reports.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:49 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
I agree, and this is my point. There is plenty of balance in the news.

But the vast majority of the population lives in/around the major urban centres, where these types of issues are a) not only visible, but b) frequent enough to be a concern to those living there
Its a matter of opinion to some extent. Ive family and friends living in both large cities and small towns, and although bad stuff happens, its doesnt seem to impact them, just as it didnt when I lived in the UK. I suppose thats a side effect of the population density, which is an area where large parts of Canada have a decided advantage over the UK. The national media will splash bad news all over the front page, and people all over the country will read it and feel slightly worse about the country they live in, thats the bottom line.

I dont know if things have got worse over time, or if I am just more jaded and cynical now, but all the papers seem to have their own agenda to push, its not simply about reporting events, its about selling papers and backing up whatever the current position of the day is with more "evidence"

It rather reminds me of the old joke definition of Statistics: The Creation of unsound facts from sound data.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by el_richo View Post
No, what people on here try to do is put perspective into things. There's a huge difference in living with such issues and readin about such issues (experience versus perception). I would guess the majority of readers who alter their perception based on media are not actually impacted. You only have to read some of the reasons on here to see that.
If you're suggesting that people decide to move to Canada on the basis of stuff they've only read in the papers, I think you need to give yourself a shake.

My view is that one of the reasons people chose to leave the UK is often due to the problem with ASBO crime. In addition to what they read in the papers, it's also what they see with their eyes.
You see, there's a difference.

But of course, this is only one reason. Other factors being the high cost of housing, lack of space, rising congestion etc etc are all common responses too. None of these are perceptions caused by the media- they're facts, that people get to experience for themselves.


Anyways, I sense that we're not going to agree...
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:50 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
I agree, and this is my point. There is plenty of balance in the news.
Can you post some links to some feelgood stories about cats rescued from up trees or whatever then
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:53 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
Fair enough Ian, but with respect, you're saying this from the comfort of your own home, a million miles from anywhere that has the issues we're talking about. It's a little easy for people to sit here saying "dont read the news" when they're not living and breathing it.

I suspect you'd have a different opinion if you was living in Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds, B'ham etc.
If you were still living on the glass filled street in Manchester, how would issues in Glasgow, London, Leeds, tel aviv, or Birmingham impact you? Or even elsewhere in Manchester possibly?

The main point is, if you enjoy the news and it doesn't alter any perceptions or your way of life, then great.

If your perceptions alter because of the news yet are not directly impacted, possibly take a step back for a while and recalibrate.

Nobody is saying to stop reporting or reading permanently.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 7:56 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by jericho View Post
My view is that one of the reasons people chose to leave the UK is often due to the problem with ASBO crime. In addition to what they read in the papers, it's also what they see with their eyes.
You see, there's a difference.

But of course, this is only one reason. Other factors being the high cost of housing, lack of space, rising congestion etc etc are all common responses too. None of these are perceptions caused by the media- they're facts, that people get to experience for themselves.


Anyways, I sense that we're not going to agree...
So move to a place without ASBO crime. I could give you a list based on the experience of family and friends spread out from Fife to Surrey. It will likely cost more, and you may have to find a new job, and there may be some rough areas within a 20 minute drive.... Hang on a minute, that sound a lot like moving to Canada doesnt it, other than the last bit

If you hate the cost and congestion of London, well, moving to Toronto or Vancouver is just more of the same isnt it? So you decide to move to say Belleville (to pick a place at random) instead, as its relatively cheap and has no traffic, how is that different to moving to somewhere small and sleepy in the UK, some village in Norfolk perhaps, other then the need for a government permit to do it?

Last edited by iaink; Jun 14th 2012 at 8:07 pm.
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Old Jun 14th 2012, 8:08 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Is it REALLY much better????

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
If you hate the cost and congestion of London, well, moving to Toronto or Vancouver is just more of the same isnt it? permit to do it?
I can't comment in Vancouver but Toronto is nothing like as crowded or congested as London. I'm not saying it isn't busy, but anyone who's tried getting onto a Central Line train going East any time between 7 and 9 in the morning on a weekday can tell you that the Yonge line is a walk in the park by comparison. Same thing goes for the roads.
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