Is it really better in Canada?
 

Hi everyone,

I came accross this thread posted 5 years ago and wondered whether it is still relevant in 2010.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...+towns,+canada

I have quoted two posts here for your convenience, but as you will see, almost the entire thread paints a picture of [I]disappointment/disillusionment[I] with Canada once the "honeymoon" is over.

How has Canada changed/improved in the last five years?
Are we not simply romanticizing about a dream country with lots of opportunities and friendly, sophisticated citizens?
Is Canada still "behind" the UK as the thread suggests?

Looking forward to your views on this matter.

Cherry Jam

Quote:
"Feb 26th 2005, 3:58 pm,
Tom Masters
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 448
However, today I think the tables have turned a bit. It can be very difficult to find work here and when you do find a job, you hold on to it as there aren't many others about. Holiday time isn't as good as the UK either. It took my husband 7 months to find a reasonable job in his field (chartered accountant). This was the first time he had ever been unemployed so that was a shock to the system. In the UK he had no problem finding decent work.

The health system is ok although it is very difficult to find a family doctor over here. Education is somewhat behind the UK academically, in my opinion (elementary level), although it is still fairly decent and kids here often go on to university etc. and go into their chosen field. As far as shopping/food is concerned, I think there is much more variety in the UK although you do adjust."

Quote:

Feb 26th 2005, 5:01 pm
Julius smith
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Location: Now in West London, but one day soon in Vancouver.....!
Posts: 373

"funny how as the time comes nearer to leaving, suddenly all these people turn up as if from hiding, to give me advice why i shouldnt go back to the uk! how i should've waited till the summer, bought a house, moved to another community....but, would that change how lifeless the place seems to be? how everyone seems to be a in ahurry but get nowhere, how suddenly everyone rushes around at weekends trying to fit everything in, then go back to the grind of work work work, how most of the drivers (men and women) in toronto at least, are absolute maniacs (to put it in a family-friendly way!), how pointless existence seems to be here? no, it wont change all that, so thats why i am glad we made the decision to bale out. canada may be friendly, but all we saw here were big cars, bigger houses, bigger mortgages, longer hours at work to pay for them and nothing more. as someone said on one of these forums, they may be friendly, but there is SOMETHING missing somewhere..... "

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I'd say the job market is worse, the exchange rate is much worse, so things are relatively more expensive. House prices will be higher (although with the state of things you might get a deal.

still difficult to get a doctor

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Ah, Julius Smith. He still pops his head in from time to time.

As I recall he came, landed a decent job, didnt really settle (family wasnt super happy I think) moved back to the UK, and now his kids are in the last few years of school in the UK. He almost immediately wanted to return to Canada, but for now hes holding on for the kids sake.

Tom I seem to recall had a hard time landing a teaching job, but got there in the end?


Is Canada better? For some yes, for some no. There really is only one way to find out if it will be for you, and its not entirely without some risk, and it really takes a few years to come to any lasting conclusions. It also depends on what type of life you left behind too I think. If you have a comfortable life in the UK with a decent wage then there is less to gain. I think the middle classes probably have a better time of it here as they can afford to live in "nicer" places. Sweeping generalisations though.


I see I am there saying "Canada without a reasonable income would not be much fun, but having said that wild horses would not drag me back to the dirty unfriendly "me first" crowded overpriced UK now." And while I still agree with the first part, five years later I dont see the UK as all that bad now. There are certainly some very nice bits, but Im not sure I could afford to live in them!

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Although there are many people who genuinely prefer the UK to Canada once they've had the opportunity to experience both, I find that many of those who end up dissappointed simply had over inflated expectations of what Canada will be like. They also often consider UK v Canada in very general terms, forgetting that while they may not be happy in a particular part of Canada/UK, that does not mean that other areas of Canada/UK wouldn't suit them better.

I've been here four months, and I honestly can't imagine a circumstance where I might look back and wonder if I've made the right choice. For me though, I happened to moving to Canada at a time when I would have been looking to move house / area in the UK in any case. So as well moving country, I've also improved my lot in life.

I'm sure there are areas of the UK where I could have been perfectly happy, but for me, Canada is a better fit. In general terms, this is what I've found:

Pros of "my" Canada:
1. It is far more family friendly.
2. It is less pressured / fast paced / stressful generally
3. It is far more "outdoorsy"
4. The climate (note, I've not experienced my first winter but I'm looking forward to it)
5. Less anti-social behaviour

Pros of "my" UK:
1. It is far more high-tech (online shopping is poor in "my" Canada, technology is way ahead in the UK).
2. Supermarket shopping is generally cheaper and there is greater choice.
3. You don't have to add tax onto the price of everything.
4. Cheap travel to other countries.

For me, I give more weight to a family oriented environment, a more comfortable pace of life, and better access to the outdoors. The relatively poorer use of technology, lesser range of shopping and lack of cheap flights is something I can easily live with.

My two cents / pence :)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I can`t understand the "better access to the outdoors" argument. I have climbed, walked, hiked all over the world and do not believe that Canada offers anything "better" in that respect. No good living in Manitoba but wanting to climb in the Rockies, no good living in London and wanting to scale Ben Nevis anytime soon.

Maclean Creek just outside of Calgary amply demonstrates the hell that breaks lose when "ourdoorsy types" are allowed to reign free over the land. Is that "better"? I suggest not.

I appreciate that skiing and skating are more readily available in Canada than the UK but I don`t get what other outdoorsy pastimes are more readily available in Canada than in the UK. If such pastimes simply consist of walking over areas, I believe the UK has just as good an environment as Canada.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

One of my major gripes with the UK is that yes, it has a hell of a lot to offer but travel in the South East is so painful that I actually don't bother making use of much of what's on offer and tend to stay in the same 20sq mile area for most of my time. On my visits to Canada, sure, things might be more spaced out so you spend a bit of time driving, but it's not put me off because it's not stressful like it is in the UK.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I like where I live now, but I do miss the english countryside. The yorkshire dales where I used to live and the dorset coast where I grew up in particular.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Starting downtown it takes an hour or more to get clear of Toronto so that's no different.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

As has been commented here before: A move from the SE of England to the North/Scotland offers much of what people seek in Canada with less cost & risk.;)

In my experience, life in Canada vs. the UK is a question of 'same sh1t, different shovel'. It's what you make of it that is important.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

That's a rather specific comparison though, don't you think? I'm saying the South East of England is a pretty congested place. Fair enough where you live might be comparable but I'm sure it's not true of everywhere... :)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I don't doubt or disagree with either of those comments. However, Canada's preferable for me ;)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Then I'll broaden that a little. I suggest that the population density and congestion in Southern Ontario is similar to that in the South East of England. Further, the access to the countryside in the South East of England is superior to that in Southern Ontario.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Just as well I don't want to live in Ontario then, huh?

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

i would suggest not in a month of sundays

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

It's all about the events that go on in your personal life that make Canada / UK great places.

If its all going well in Canada - ie good job, friends, outdoorsy stuff - then your life will be one you love and won't look back.

If it goes wrong - it goes doubly wrong because you can feel so very alienated, far away from any advice that can be of much help or anyone that can do something to make it better.

If it's good in the UK, then you have a good life full of familiar surroundings and friends to share it with, again if something goes tits up - you're not alone.

Basically Canada amplifies emotions - if you want to live on the highs then you'd better make sure you prepare to succeed. Fail and it's a slippery slope that can break up even the strongest of families.

So in summary are those posts still relevant? Of course they are - peoples hopes and expectations haven't changed in 5 years and neither have the pitfalls / rewards.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

You should be moving to the burbs then.

;)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Been there, done that. Also, properly downtown, in a near suburb (the Beach), out in the sticks. What's next to try, I wonder.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

UK?

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Dont expect Uk way of doing things, it doesnt happen.BUT if you get wiley like the Coyote you can get around it.:rofl:

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

.... or ran over, shot .....................

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Oh wouldn't it be nice. Maybe my daughter could sponsor me.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I think it's mostly to do with people reading the Daily Wail here and then moving to Canada and thinking everything is roses because they've yet to discover the Kanuck version of the Wail. Canada has it's own host of socio-economic problems. Drugs, sex and violence do indeed exist in Canada. The Eutopia a lot of people seek on this forum doesn't exist - that's why there's so many complaints here.

People are people. Some are good, some are bad and some are a whole lot of shades of grey in between.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I have inferred from what you said here that the extremities are black and white. Which is the good and which is the bad?:p:rofl:

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

If immigrants did not put Canada on a pedestal like we did, then the gap between expectation and reality would easier to accept.
Don't be fooled by the pictures of mountains and lakes though, this country has it's dark side aswell. The one thing i realise now is that the potential to succeed here is enormous however the journey is a tough one.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Hw many want to be immigrants keep in touch with people that have recently moved here???? Not many i'd say.

When the ex decided he wanted to move out here, it was all based upon hear say. Old people that visited our sleepy seaside town from the great white North - they all seemed relatively well off and had healthy shiny glows to their faces.

You look at pics of Canada on websites and it seems soooooo beautiful (which many parts are), but you don't look for the shitty bits - why would you spoil your dream.

You are also under the misapprehension that its waaaaaay cheaper here because it's what you think you know.

You dream about building big log cabins in way out remote areas because all your friends back in the UK will be soooo jealous.

You even come on a reccie because you think you want to visit your proposed destination, and make excuses for the bits that aren't hitting the heart strings.

And dare I say it, some people are under the misguided apprehension that they are gods gift to the human race and believe that Canada will welcome this new immigrant from the UK and bow down to everything he says because Canada is sooooooo backward and lucky to have him and all the new shiny things and ideas he brings with him :rofl:

When reality sets in and you realise that Canadians don't hold you on a pedastal - your bubble bursts and you have to start being humble and accept the way they do things over here.

CANADIANS DON'T CARE THAT YOU ARE FROM THE UK, THEY LIKE YOUR ACCENT AND THATS ABOUT IT

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Agreed

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

It happened for me:p

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Wow, that's a rant and a half! :rofl:

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Yeah but your location = Edmonton :)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

This is nothing new.

We first came to Canada in 1956 lasted about seven months before my mother dragged my sister and myself back to the UK, my mother hated the place. Arrived Edmonton early September left late March says it all in a way don't it. ;)

My father stayed in Canada until 1960.

When my father was initially looking for work he looked in Edmonton and Vancouver. There were lots of places with signs up indicating they were hiring but an awful lot of those had additional signs saying "No Englishmen need apply".

I wonder if even back then they got a little tired of hearing how good the UK was and how much better they were compared to the average Canadian, along with how they could improve things if they'd just do things like they did in England.

Didn't seem to put my dad off though as he and I were back again in 1963 and he passed away here and I'm still here. :)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

well true..i will give you that

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

BTW, I just had a little look on the 'net (where everything's true), and found that Southern Ontario has approximately 220 people per square mile. Surrey has approximately 1700 per square mile so yeah, they're quite comparable :rofl:

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Less of a rant and more like a list of home truths and a reality check, IMO.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I like this thread, it's an interesting snapshot from both sides of the fence.

I can understand the misconstrued 'rose tinted view' that a lot of people have of Canada; there's a programme on UK TV at the moment called 'Wanted Down Under', although it's based around families trying out life in Australia for a week it never ceases to amaze me their naivety and inflated expectations.

I don't envy those regular families who up sticks and move to Canada having never really done anything similar in the past - talk about a gamble.

Reading all the comments makes me feel quite lucky (famous last words). Life in the army's turned us into nomads; we spent 7 yrs in Germany, a year in Canada and we've had 8 homes in the UK. We've never had a 'regular' life and we've nowhere to call home. Friends have come and gone and our families are used to seeing us as and when.

Hat's off to you all my friends, you have my admiration. ;)

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

My BS bell just rang.

From Wiki:

London and the South Eastern region of England: Population Density - 658 people per km² circa 2001

Toronto and Southern Ontario - Population Density 86.4/km2 (223.8/sq mi) that's about 1/8th of the population density.

Re: the OP. Is Canada better? Some people say same sh!t different shovel. For me it's more accurate to say same shovel, different sh!t.

You will remain the same.

It's not whether Canada or the UK is better, it's whether the change will do you good - or in other words whether you will make good changes!

I back Canada on this forum for many reasons, but one reason is that this is where I have chosen to hang my hat. I bet I could have gone to Australia, many countries in Europe, the Shetland Islands, Ecuador, or even remotest Yorkshire and been as happy.

And Mandy's rant is right: and they will like your accent - and will probably mistake it for Australian anyway!

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I would agree with this....that lines up with my Canada and my UK - the only thing I would add to my UK is my close friends and what I have remaining of my family...but thats a given with most people.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

I was a big outdoors person in the UK, and being that way was one of the things that attracted me to Canada.

There are pros and cons of outdoor pastimes in both UK and Canada, the biggest difference is that Canada offers a different expereince to what people living in the Uk have been used to, and so very novel - things like a vast difference in wildlife, but not neccesarily better, just different, and I do think Canada offers more of a choice and variation in outdoor activties than the UK..... UK summers are normally very unreliable, for camping and bbqs and for example you would have little chance to go for a swim in a lake regulary, (far too cold in the lake district or the lochs of Scotland!) then in the winter significant snowfall is rare now in the UK (except for last year), so that rules out all snow based pastimes of the winter.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

The problem with that being, of course, that "Southern Ontario" includes places like Melancthon, where no one lives. What is comparable to the South East is the GTA to Windsor corridor. There being empty bits of Ontario not classified as "north" or "tundra" is as much use to someone at the foot of Yonge street as the emptiness of the Orkneys is to someone in Camden. (Not that someone in Camden would ever have reason to leave).

A low population density suggests houses spread apart, lots of parks, outdoors on your doorstep, that sort of thing. The reality in southern Ontario is vast areas of farmland, to which there is no public access, and other areas with houses and blocks of flats crammed in as tightly as in the UK.

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

This is very true....if a person knows this before and is still up for the change in lifestyle, then I think they will settle in well!

Canada being "backward" as some people call it its what attracted me here, ok its behind in some technology - but who cares!! the rest of it that is "behind" is just what I like about it - slower paced, a sense of community (except for city life) politeness, morals and manners etc.... well thats what Ive found anyway...and its funny as thats what the UK used to be like, nowadays in the UK everyone is out for themselves.....with a snarl!

Re: Is it really better in Canada?
 

Fair point. I tried to qualify my opinion by referring to "my Canada" and "my UK", appreciating that I've not experienced the full range of either.

Having said that, I think for the average, middle-class Joe, who isn't an outdoor sports enthusiast but who'd simply rather his kids got more fresh air and less video games, Canada probably does have greater access to the outdoors.

I grew up in Glasgow and spent the last few years in North Wales and if I was an outdoor sports enthusiast I would have been made up with the climbing, mountain biking, kayaking etc. that was on my doorstep. But I couldn't walk out my front door and cycle with the kids round some local trails (there weren't any). I couldn't take them to cool down in the splash-pad in the heat of summer, or have snowball fights and sledging in the winter.

So "my" Canada certainly has better access to the outdoors for me and my family. And I can still mountain bike, climb, ski and kayak if I want to. I appreciate others might not have the same criteria though.