Racism?
 

I just found this forum on the internet and have found it really helpful to understand a lot about Canada and canadians. I'm 20 and have been living in Calgary for a couple of years and overall I like it here. However, I am a bit intrigued when I meet people (locals) as I have encountered what I could only describe as racist remarks from more than one local. I am of mixed race (spanish-italian on moms side, and english on Dad's). I have been asked a couple of times if I'm part native (first nations); normally I would say that there's nothing wrong with that, but everyday I see how white Canadians are very hostile and disdainful to the native canadian people, and if for some reason I don't hit up with people that I met I feel that their weird racism is the reason. I know that I may sound paranoid, but this is very uncomfortable. :angry_smile:

Anyway, I travelled to Vancouver for the first time last week and had a brilliant time; loved the city, the mountains, and the people. I was there only for a few days, and found people to be more open and friendly, and I didn't feel secluded as I have felt in Calgary, which as shallow as it may seem, made me feel so much better about the place.

So my question to you all is, have you noticed forms of racism in vancouver? Is there anybody who may have been to both places and could tell me what differences they find about people and culture between the two cities? I loved Vancouver and I am considering moving there, but sadly this whole thing will be a decisive factor for me.

Cheers

Re: Racism?
 

Have never lived in Calgary so can't comment.

IMO there is racism everywhere but I haven't come across a lot of open racism in Vancouver, compared, say to Melbourne, Australia or other cities I've lived or visited. But I think it depends on your social circle and your job. Where I work cradle Canadians are the minority and there are lots of immigrants so they're not likely to say anything stupid haha. I also live in a place where visible minorities are over half the population and none of my friends are likely to say racist things. My kid's two best friends aren't the same race as her and by and large at school we parents all seem to get along, cross fingers. I'm not saying they're/we're all better people than Calgarians I just haven't come across that here. Yet.

Maybe I live in a bubble though....?

Re: Racism?
 

While resisting the urge to tar and feather an entire province, I have noticed in Calgary a much more right wing, old fashioned perspective and anyone who is different or holds different views. I spent a good chunk of last winter there for work.

I was actually heckled as a "a left wing liberal" for taking a more conservative view of the law at a conference I was lecturing at. Came as quite a surprise, and was most certainly not in line with the law.

Vancouver certainly has racism, but nothing out of the ordinary and very tolerant overall.Much more multi-cultural here and yes, more left leaning.

native peoples are sadly often the brunt of casual remarks, out-right racism and sterotyping across the nation.

Vancouver is great, much much nicer place to live than cow-town. However, brings lots of coin and a brolly:)

Re: Racism?
 

Well done ;) I was waiting for it ...

I have been aware of the odd casual racist/homophobic/generally un-PC comments - not at work though - just in casual conversation with people. My experience is that it comes more from older generations than younger, and perhaps more from people who have been here a long time and have seen so much change. Seems par for the course really. And I'm not tarring the older generations with any brush either. :p

It seems no worse than where we lived in the UK, and my working environment is vastly more multi cultural here in Calgary - and it works generally very well.

I'm not even aware of Calgary being that right-wing - conservative with either a little or a big C. A newspaper article today suggested that nearly 60% of the Albertan population did not vote at the last election which suggests apathy and dis-interest to me, not a right-wing stronghold. Maybe I am blinkered? :confused: (Can't find the bloody article now!)

Re: Racism?
 

for me Calgary is sort of a predictably nice enough place to call home. Crime is relatively low, clean ish, housing cheaper, jobs probably better paying (depending on career) and cost of living lower. The place is more about business, oil that is, and is very isolated. I noticed the downtown core was busy during the day then died a terrible death by 6 pm. The streets were destered. More of a generic north american city than Vancouver is. I personally hate it and never felt any kind of a draw to the place at all. As i noted, while i have not lived there, i have spent a great deal of time there.

Vancouver is larger, more of an international destination, is right on the ocean, tons of Brits here, more interesting, more multi-cultural, closer to more interesting things. Winters are much milder, but also wetter and gray. Summer/spring is probably similar although doesnt end as abruptly. It is of course more expensive to live here, wages are not in line with cost of living and the city is more crowded.

Beyond the wetter winters and pricey houses, i dont see any other downside.

Re: Racism?
 

perhaps, i get my impressions largely from moving in police circles. there is a hang em mentality and a blinkered belief that things are different in cow town. I have been personally shocked at comments i have heard in this day and age. As you say, probably more like the UK...but the comparison was to Vancouver which is, i find, more tolearant than the UK, at least when compared to my bit of it.

Re: Racism?
 

I don't really disagree with you - but as I don't live in Calgary itself and have little reason to be downtown day or night, it does not affect my life. As I have said numerous times before, it is mostly an architectural wasteland with the odd little pockets of loveliness dotted around. And to me that IS a typical North American city. Having said that, I think it is a very liveable city.

Visible minorities are, I suppose, a minority in Calgary. But that is not to say that there are not thousands upon thousands of people of every race here. And as far as I can tell, muddling along quite nicely.

Hubby suggests that any racism (read 'less tolerance') he has witnessed in the city itself is aimed at the native population. There is no excuse - however, there is a very visible native/homeless/drinking/crime issue here. It is what it is - and in his experience, that is what draws comments.

Re: Racism?
 

I have come across a lot of what might be viewed as racist comments on the Lower Mainland.

These have arisen when Canadians have asked about my status here (until recently I was only a Temporary Worker and was waiting for my PR for 17 months) and all of them were along the lines of, "You are the wrong colour".
Virtually everyone who asked about how long it was taking me to get PR made such a comment and many went further and said if I had just washed up at Vancouver in a leaky boat and claimed refugee status I would have been better off than doing it the legal and proper way.

This is in the context of local people seeing large numbers of mainly East Indian immigrants flooding nearby areas, many of them consisting of one applicant bringing a huge family and extended family following along later, many of them unable to speak English to any reasonable standard (except the Principal applicant).

Whether these comments could be considered to be racist or actually just a layman's view of the on-the-ground situation caused by the much faster processing times at VOs like New Delhi and also Pakistan applicants at London, is debatable.

I haven't seen overt racism directed at anyone here at all but there certainly are undercurrents of bad feeling along racial lines.
There seem to be feelings that immigrants from certain countries create their own ghettos and don't make any attempt to integrate with Canadians.

I have also heard from some teachers here that the recent huge increase in the numbers of non-English speaking children in schools now in some areas on the Lower Mainland (because their mothers generally don't speak English, only their fathers and so it isn't spoken at home) is causing a strain on resources and is leading to racial tension in school.

I haven't seen or heard any racist comments about First Nations at all, though.

Re: Racism?
 

Wake up FFS.What a load of left wing liberal yoghurt knitting B/S.Just wait until your locality starts sprouting mosques,by then it'll be too late and you'll be over run.
This is Western Canada,not Europe.You moved here for a reason,keep on with your pc/sandal wearing policies and this country will be rapidly going down the toilet also !
As it stands today,the majority of immigrants are welcomed along with their extended families,with open arms,unless you happen to be white(swear word) and from a commonwealth country.
Get a life and stop smacking your gay vegan children :rofl:.

Re: Racism?
 

That's what I love about this site - the open-minded, articulate, intelligent debate:rofl:

<snip>

Re: Racism?
 

There are quite a few in and around Vancouver. We're ****ed then :ohmy:

Re: Racism?
 

Strange opinion.

Yes I'm moving to Canada (if permitted) for a reason, BUT I've lived in or around Bradford for about 18 years now, and Mosques do 'spring' (as you put it) up in quite a lot of places, HOWEVER that is not the reason I'm moving.

The reason I'm moving has nothing to do with the influx of foreign cultures into the UK.

In fact, if I were moving to Canada because of that I think that would be a little hypocritical (for want of a better word).

If you do move over for those reasons and then whine about the crap cheese and poor chocolate, cry out for BBC TV and M&S underwear, and then state how much better the UK is for XYZ...... well you deserve to be the butt of racist jokes.

Re: Racism?
 

a bit of racism is good for society... it keeps the minorities on their toes :D

Re: Racism?
 

I've experienced it here in the U.K. on quite a few occasions. My personal experience of it was not related to 'not fitting in'. I speak, read and write the lingo reasonably well... I think ;) I don't hold strange values and fully accept the need to fit in with societal norms and 'British values'. I also would endorse the view that if folk are coming here - at least make an effort to learn the language and to fit in.

The type that I encountered and each time that I encountered it appeared to be unrelated to those things above but more to do with the level of melanin in my skin. Whilst I have seen it from the older generation - I encountered more of it from the younger generation that fitted my generation and age group.

I've not encountered any in Canada... so far. Then again, I've only been to BC and SK briefly each year. Not enough day to day living to encounter overt type any I guess.

Don't know if you caught that program on tv that ran for a few "Make Bradford British". They pulled together disparate members of the community to try to get them to understand and accept each other.

The stereotypical young white man from a predominantly white neighbourhood did make me smile when he said that he used to think mosques were "terrorist training camps". He believed it seriously too.

Re: Racism?
 

I caught one episode of that show and recognised most of the areas depicted, but I think they searched for specific types of people with specific views for production/entertainment value.

I guess it does prove that those views do exist, but I think that program proved (in most cases) the problems are down to education, or lack of.

The union flag waving, brass band playing guy made me laugh though with things like "You'll enjoy going to this place because Bob's there. He's the same colour as you, don't you know him?". Clearly someone who's lived in cultural isolation for many years never even thinking about taking a look over his garden wall at the reality out there.

Re: Racism?
 

Dont forget racism works both ways

Re: Racism?
 

Your observations are along the lines of what i see. It's the same anywhere where people are reacting to immigration policy etc, its the same in the UK (more so) and anywhere else for that matter. I think many of us are guilty of that at times, including here on BE. I have, generally speaking of course, found that overall people here are very tolerant and Vancouver in general is a very tolerant place.

Re: Racism?
 

agreed

Re: Racism?
 

I was called a "White Boy" by a group of East Indian kids when i asked them to stop swearing in front of my little nephew on the skytrain. The actual sentence he used was "What are you going to do about it white boy"?

He was lucky i had my nephew with me. Still makes me angry :thumbdown:

My cousins East Indian wife was called a "chocolate monkey" by a young Chinese girl after she accidentally bumped into her in the shopping mall.

I've also witnessed the usual "immigrants are bad" type of racism although that tends to be immigrant = not white and has an accent.

The main difference i find in Canada to the UK is that the UK media isnt averse to having detrimental hyperbole splashed across the main pages of the media so the idiots believe it.

Re: Racism?
 

Racism has always been around and unfortunately will be around for a number of years to come. It has many forms not just based on skin colour.
The reasons for racism also change as well or why the majority of the populace think that multiculturism is both good and bad.
Canada as we know was mainly built and founded on Immigration or emigrants moving here from all countries.
You will always have the locals complaining or stating that they are coming over here (insert any countries name) and taking our jobs and trying to impose their beliefs and way of life on us.
Many of us work in diverse work places where immigrants work side by side and for the norm there are not too many problems.
A lot of Immigrants chose cities and towns where there are people of their culture, race etc as a comfort mechanism where they believe they will fit in.
Believe it or not towns like Inuvik, Yellowknife and Iqaluit have Muslims, Somalians and a host of others living in those communities.
Many here perceive the Aboriginal/Native members as a bit of a drain on Canada as they tar them as all welfare bums and solvent sniffers. well we know its not true but you will always hear those comments.
Some will say the UK is being overun by the Eastern Europeans Poles/Romanians/Hungary etc hence the racist comments from UK citizens.
Education and understanding is a key but some people will say its being forced on them and if they the Immigrants dont like it here then they can go back to wherever.
Its a vicious circle that has no end at the moment.

Re: Racism?
 

I believe a better turn of phrase is prejudice and the world will never get rid of it. People simply don't like people who are different as change makes them uncomfortable.

Lastly I don't live in Calgary but I'm sure I read some where that their Mayor is Muslim. Strangely odd for a place described as rightwing up thread.

Re: Racism?
 

Yes indeed he is Muslim. Unfortunately I dont believe there is a prejudice card and it is much easier to play the race card when it suits.

Re: Racism?
 

Indeed. I find the 'straight' Canadian Media style of news reporting far more palatable than the UK. At least in Canada, the trash stories are mainly confined to the the rags at the supermarket checkout - "Evil Camilla tarnishing Princess Di's memory" & similar. :o

Most UK tabloids pander to their core target readers prejudices. Sadly many fools believe all the sensational headlines, taking it as gospel.

When you have The Daily Tits spouting headlines along the line of "Immigrants lowering the house prices of hard working families" & the like, it does nobody any favours & gives more ammunition to the gullible.

Re: Racism?
 

in a sense the headline is not incorrect in its general submission..its the age old saying...'birds of a feather stick together'

Re: Racism?
 

I recall my first day as a student in Bradford many years ago.

Whilst walking from the university towards the halls of residence, I noticed some graffiti on a lamppost that read:

"White people go home".

WTF! :confused:

Perhaps it was a helpful notice just in case it was dinner time when someone with white skin passed said lamppost :)

Re: Racism?
 

I have no experience of Calgary. For the most part Vancouverites are tolerant with some exceptions. I've been called racial slurs in the workplace and elsewhere ("cracker", "white bread" for example).

Personally I found London (10 years ago) to be more tolerant with a greater tendency for people to share common values and be civil towards one another.

Re: Racism?
 

Nothing wrong with foreign cultures at all,when in Rome etc,but Britain failed big time on that one.The British have to bow to the minorities just in case one of the poor darlings gets offended by Christmas,Easter or Valentines Day FFS.
We brought our family to Canada and adopted the Canadian way of living,sure we miss the odd thing but it was our choice,we don't moan and whine about the fact.The wraparound stetson brigade have issues with everything,and now the Liberal softies in this country bow to their every wish.
Try building a Christian church in Saudi Arabia and see how long your head remains attached to the rest of your body,but try stopping a mosque being built in Canada/Europe,the yoghurt knitters would be outraged :eek:.

Re: Racism?
 

An example please of "the British" suppressing Christmas, Easter or Valentine's Day in order to bow to minorities.

Re: Racism?
 

In the same aspect I guess my plans for opening up a strip club in Saudi has been dashed after reading this :lol:

Saudi Arabia completely bans the production, importation or consumption of alcohol and imposes strict penalties on those violating the ban, including weeks to months of imprisonment including, or instead of, lashes (see hudud). Similarly, Kuwait also bans the importation or consumption of alcohol, but does not impose corporal punishment for violations. During the Persian Gulf War in 1991, the Coalition, to show respect for local beliefs, banned its troops in Saudi Arabia from drinking alcohol.

I realise its not racism but some will see that as a how come they get to do this in this country but I cant go to theirs and do the same i.e open a strip club. Yes I know its against their religion but those that argue the point well they get to do this in our country progress to making racist remarks about Muslims.
So how do we feel about Shariah Law being introduced into Canada?
This article about shariah Law in Canada explains it
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/is...ariah-law.html

So if I was in Saudi Arabia and committed a crime would I be tried and convicted under their laws or could I request that I be dealt with under the Criminal Code of Canada?

As others have said sometimes we seem to be bowing down to the minorities and that helps fuel racism.

Re: Racism?
 

1. All Muslims are not Saudis and all Saudis are not Muslims. What the government of Saudi Arabia does as regards foreign visitors has no relevance to the manner in which the British government should treat British Muslims.

2. There's no Shariah law in Canada.

Re: Racism?
 

He probably means that school boards in the UK and Canada have started to replace the word Christmas and use the term Holiday period. Its no longer a Christmas tree but a holiday or festive tree.
Wait until the next World Cup and many councils will be telling council staff not to fly English flags (St Georges Cross) on council vehicles.
The UK press made a big deal of it at the last World Cup though councils stated that it was a health and safety issue as opposed to stating that they feared a backlash from the Muslim community who see the St Georges Cross as a racist symbol and issue.
http://swns.com/builders-banned-from...ms-111107.html
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonli..._the_flag.aspx
It was even mentioned on BE
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669395

People are always commenting on how behind the UK we are well I hope that Canada is ahead of the UK on this issue.

Re: Racism?
 

Did you read the link before commenting?

How would Shariah law apply in Ontario?
First, it's not clear the term "Shariah law" would even be used. Several groups that appeared before Boyd's process of reviewing the Arbitration Act say it's not Shariah law they want to set up but a Muslim Personal/Family Law process which has its roots in Shariah.

The arbitration process as set out in the Arbitration Act is voluntary. Most of the concerns about the creation of "Shariah" tribunals have focused on the fear that Muslim women may feel they are being forced into taking part in a process of binding arbitration according to Muslim family law instead of resolving their disputes through the court system.

In her report, former Ontario attorney general Marion Boyd stressed that any faith-based system would have to conform to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It is being discussed and I think you will find has been implemented though they dont call it Shariah Law

The Arbitration Act should continue to allow disputes to be arbitrated using religious law, if the safeguards currently prescribed and recommended by this review are observed.

Re: Racism?
 

So you embrace the Canadian way of saying happy holidays instead of happy Christmas? Yet are outraged when it's done in the UK?

:thumbup:

Re: Racism?
 

So other than a building site manager not wanting flags on site, and a few cabbies not allowed due to H&S and recognition reasons, there hasn't really been any bans of significance has there.

The hyperbole around this topic in the british media is laughable, and very disturbing that people believe it.

Re: Racism?
 

No there hasnt but it was the perception that was portrayed by the UK media about banning flags that riled up certain segments. Of course The Sun ran their campaigns in support of flying the flag and lets face it some who read that paper are a sandwich short of a picnic in the brain department. Add in the alcohol on a Friday/Saturday night and its a recipie for trouble.

Re: Racism?
 

At least it's good business for media and flag sales, and gives the believers something to talk about :)

Re: Racism?
 

Not at all,I./we as in the local population make a point of wishing everybody a Merry Christmas,because come Dec25th it is actually Christmas Day.
Come the time when I have to wish people "happy holiday"or "happy winter festival"then I'll know it's time to hang up the gloves,until that day arrives I fully believe that when immigrating and enjoying the hospitality of a foreign country you should abide by their values,not try to change them to suit your own.
Britain is a broken society for failing to adhere to moral principals,the Aussies had it right when they said anyone was welcome to go and live there but only to live the Aussie way,not trying to indoctrinate society with other cultures/beliefs/values,the same should be happening here before this country turns to rat shit but the PC movement are already on the move while the apathetic Canadians et al don't want to worry about it.
Western Canada is a great place to live,freedom meets no bounds in many ways but when ,because it's only a matter of time,this place becomes overrun with Koran dedicated idiots the population says "this has to stop"it'll be far too late.
By way of consolation,they hate the Christian society far more than any fury could be bestowed upon them,read this post in 5 yrs time and you'll wished you'd acted sooner.

Re: Racism?
 

And yet you regularly refer to and quote it.....

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...37#post9990837
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...25#post9989225

etc.

;)

Re: Racism?
 

Strange, my Canadian colleagues wished happy holidays as did a few clients and other companies. I had it regularly when out shopping too and also noticed it on tv. My wife's company requested employees say holidays instead of Christmas.

I guess Vancouver could be different from wherever you are though.

I say happy Christmas btw but don't really care what people decide to use.

I would imagine the number of Canadian residents who are fanatical Muslims wanting huge changes is negligible in the larger scheme of things and will remain so at least in my lifetime.

Don't believe everything you read in the media. It's not good for you.

Re: Racism?
 

If he says so then I shall ask for citations of "holiday tree" and eventually it'll come down to one nutcase parish counciller. I'll find umpteen references to Christmas trees in the MSM.



I think the St. George's flag is that of the National Front. As a kid I never saw it, it only became popular with the rise of neo-Nazi organisations, and so I think it's a racist symbol. I don't know that I'd ban it but it's the equivalent of the Confederate flag here.