Souvenir

To cut a short story long.

A while back, we had a water leak in the kitchen. It caused some damage to the ceiling of the laundry room below. The insurance contractors removed and replaced a section of the ceiling, above which are several water pipes.

Recently, we noticed a tendency for the kitchen cold tap to sometimes not work. It happened again yesterday. I took the tap apart and there is nothing wrong with it. I couldn't be bothered to call the contractors, so I got out the trusty drywall saw and headed downstairs, where I removed a section of ceiling to expose the pipes and outside wall. The stupid bastards had taken out the insulation and pipe lagging but not replaced it. The cold pipe was right next to an uninsulated outside wall and had frozen. Mercifully, it didn't burst.

Anyway, I lagged the pipes and insulated the wall. What I couldn't do is put on a vapour barrier. The area of wall I insulated is small, about three feet wide by ten inches high (above a window) but I can't get at it properly with a stepler and tape because there is a floor joist in the way. Unless I do some major demo work, there is no way I can get a properly sealed barrier.

Does it really matter all that much if a small area of wall doesn't have a barrier?

Atlantic Xpat

Souv. Any chance of taking a picture to help visualise the problem?

Bill_S

In this case, a half-assed job might be better than none at all. Can you cover some of the insulation at least? In such a small area, I'd be tempted to do my best and not worry about it too much.

For those not following, a vapour barrier prevents humidified air from the house getting into the cold insulation. If that happens, the water vapour will condense and the insulation gets wet - that can lead to mold and other problems.

Oakvillian

probably not all that much. As I understand it, the point of a vapour barrier is to inhibit the flow of air between warm and cold areas, because the difference in relative humidity between them for a given air moisture content will cause condensation --> damp --> mould. In a small area above a window with cold water pipes running through it, the temperature gradient will likely be gradual enough not to matter.

If it's a concern, though, why not get a spraycan of the instant expanding foam insulation stuff (for an area that small, no point in doing the whole two-part pack and a compressor thing) - it acts as insulation and vapour barrier in one hit so you don't need to worry about staples and tape.

on edit - pretty much what Bill S said much more succinctly, in fact.

Atlantic Xpat

That's a good idea - just one word of warning though. If you get the foam everywhere it takes ages to wear off. I still have traces of some on my forehead. Don't ask.

Oakvillian

<asks anyway>

Atlantic Xpat

Oh if you insist. Mike Holmes I am not.

I've been working through the house taking off window trim and filling the chuffing great gaps around each window. Got as far as the spare-room-now-being-turned-into-a-nursery and screwed the little pipe thingy onto the top of the can of low expansion foam. Well the screw fitting on top of the can broke off. "Bugger" I thought. "What a waste of a can of foam". "Can't you just hold it in place and use it anyway?" asked Mrs AX. The answer to that question is "No dear, as inevitably at some point you lose contact twixt the tube and the top of the aerosol and foam goes absolutely everywhere'.

Unfortunately I didn't articulate the answer, just demonstrated it.

iaink

Surely if you can drywall the area, then its possible (with patience) to stick up some Polly and tucktape it too? Advice given to me in the past (and confirmed by that mike holmes guy on the telly), is that any hole in the vapout barrier might be asking for trouble in the long term.

If taping and or stapling is hard to do, isnt there some sort of sticky mastic goo you can apply and stick the poly too? Im in the throws of insulating the basement, and think that I might end up doing that to get the vapour barrier to seal well around the joists.

I too have been looking like an outcast from the dermatolagy ward thanks to a combination of spray foam and construction adhesive... Kind of put me in mind of "The singing detective"

Souvenir

This is what I'm worried about. It's the laundry room and will, eventually, also house a shower.

Attached are some photos. They are not great. It's no easier to to photograph the thing than it is to work on it. The gap between the floor joist and the outside wall is about ten inches. The distance to the inside wall is much smaller. There's just no room to work in that hole.

I'm quite liking the spray idea. I reckon I can seal-off the existing barrier either side of the window, where there is insulation. Then spray the hell out of the gap above the window. Presumably I would have to take out the new fibreglass first?

iaink

NOt necessarily, you could put in a piece of poly sheet over the insuation, and then seal that to the available woodwork with expanding foam, starting at the back against the outside wall, and moving forward.

You might have to find a bit of suitable pipe to fit over the bit that comes with the can in order to reach back into the farthest corner as the 6" pipe that comes with them wont do you any favours.

Id try and avoid spray foaming over the pipework as if you ever did have to work on it (like putting in a shower) its going to be a pain in the arse with foam on it. The impending shower makes getting a good vapour barrier all the more critical I would think.

Really you want the vapour barrier behind the pipes, along with the insulation, and the pipes on the warm side of all that if you can.

Souvenir

More to think about: ta.

Odds are that we won't do anything more for a few weeks. We have some seriously cold weather coming up. I want to see if my latest fixes have worked before I close the hole up. I won't be here much anyway, so it's unlikely the job will get finished before spring.

Steve_P

How long is a while back?

Would it be possible to phone said insurance company and tell them "their" contractor did a crap job and you'd like them to come back and do it properly?

Souvenir

The thought had crossed my mind but I'm not sure I want the hassle of hanging around waiting for contractors to show up, or not. They did a crap job last time. Who's to say they won't do a crap job again?

In any case, I've realised that we have not been invoiced for the insurance deductible (a few hundred dollars). I don't want to encourage any digging into our file.

Steve_P

In a sense it is unfortunate that you may not have been billed for the deductible, because that does tend to put you off complaining.

The insurance company should really be made aware of the crap job their contractor has done for you in particular and perhaps many others in general.

Souvenir

I'd rather not stir things up with the insurance company. For one thing, we've made two rather expensive claims in four years. We are probably not very popular with them. For another, I'm better at telling lies than their claims adjuster is at spotting them