Lucy Clarke

Hi,
My husband and I, are 25 years old, English and are looking into emmigrating to Canada, probably Toronto, and we have a few questions we would like answering as it seems everywhere else we look, all the answers are very non commital to say the least.
1. I have a psychology degree and am currently studying for a diploma in nursing, specifically learning disabilities. I have heard that these qualifications are not recognised in Canada, and i would have to retrain for x amount of years to come up to scratch, is that true?
2. My husband is a Police Officer, but would obvioulsy have to become a citizen before applying to join a Force in Canada. He is currently qualifying to become a personal trainer/ fitness instructor. Are there jobs in that field?
3. He is also toying with the idea of taking his French A level. Is that recommended? Is it recognised as a qualification?
4. My great Aunt and Uncle live in Toronto and are Canadian citizens, they are willing to sponsor us, but I have a feeling because I am married and they are a 'distant relative category' would they be able to?
5. If they were, do they have to make the application first?
6. When applying, do you have to prove you have sufficient funds at the time of the application? We will have sufficient money if we get approved, as the sale of our house will give us more than enough, but at the moment with me being a student, that sort of cash is not free flowing!!?
Muchos questions I know, but nowhere seems to tell you like it is.
Your replies will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

CalgaryAMC

Would recommend posting your immigration-specific questions in the immigration forum; there are some experts in there: http://britishexpats.com/forum/forum...?s=&forumid=33

On the police: a permanent resident is eligible. The standard application process must be completed; there seems to be no recognition of foreign police experience.

The French A-level may be recognized for the purpose of immigration points, and would be recognized in an application to university, for example. It would also back up any claims made - say on a job application - about French ability.

Nursing is a complex issue and the rules are different in each province. There will be invariably be some additional work required in Canada, but how far the UK qualifications are recognized and what additional work will be required will differ from place to place.

JAJ

You should visit the immigration forum for specific questions on that area. MY limited answers are as follows:

1. Your degree (and diploma, when you receive it) may be recognised for immigration but not for employment purposes. Also note that in terms of professional and employment recognition, different provinces in Canada may have different policies.

Or your qualifications may be partially recognised for employment/registration, meaning you would need to do some top-up or conversion study.

You will need to research this yourself.

2. PR status may be enough to join *some* Canadian police forces. The Toronto Police only seem to require PR while the RCMP requires citizenship (to give just two examples)
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca
http://www.rcmp.gc.ca

That said, even if the police force is willing to recruit PRs, there's no guarantee of an employment opportunity, particularly if lateral entry is sought.

Again - research.

3. If you're asking about immigration - you need the TEF to claim points for French (or at least that's the highly recommended way). Look at the selection criteria on the CIC website.

4,5. Check the CIC site, but I think great-aunts are too distant to be of any advantage in immigrating.

6. Ask on the immigration forum.

Jeremy

Dr. Who

Contact the Ontario College of Nurses at http://www.cno.org/

If you want to do the work of an RN (a bit like the old UK SRN), you now need a university degree in nursing. Your diploma though, may get you in as a RPN (a bit like but a little below the old UK SEN), but check with the college to be sure. What they are doing in Ontario is they are trying to raise the bar - so without a degree in nursing you are not going to have too much of a career in that field.

As for the psych degree - I assume it is at the baccalaureate level. This may be good - it will open some doors but not too many though. I worked in Probation and Parole for a while and folks with Psych degrees could get in there - some former police officers did too - that was in the late 1980s so it may have changed. Check out government jobs at

http://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/mbs/gojo...nsf/GOjobsHome

mad bunny

O.K.
I have not visited this site for some time, so I do not know what is history!
In the first instance it stands to reason that you are not going to take my word for it, nor should you!
I am/was an R.M.N. - G grade nursing sister U.K.
Have a Diploma in Community Mental Health. I qualified in "83".
I cannot work in Canada as either a R.N. or a R.P.N....That's ME...
You may be different. I'd hate to be either negative or to rehash information that people are unable to comprehend.
Basically, life is to short, so the easiest route for you, is to go straight to the horses mouth, which is the ontario nurses association.
Pay your fee... they will be happy to take it.. Have your credentials assessed..and then learn for yourself!!!
That is... the only way you are going to believe that your qualifications are as...whatever!
I've been in Canada now, over a year.
As an R.M.N. I'm basically unemployable.

moving

Hye,
All most of your queries seem to ahve been answered. As for the money part....unfortunately you have to show them your finances while applying. You can't say that the money is goint to come later. For argument sake, you might decide not to sell your house!!! Sorry to be disappointing but I think you need to some how get the required money in a bank ans shwo them the bank statement. An you would need to show them the money when you are entering Canada...if you get immigration right. All the best

Dr. Who

Here is a different perspective - my wife got her SEN from Britain in the early 80s, and this is a way lower qualification than all this R.M.N. business and SisterG stuff. She came here, took a course and an exam that she says was dead easy - and now she gets work as a RPN whenever she wants no problem.

Now as an RPN her work choices are not great - she does not get work in a hospital - but she gets work whenever she wants it.

So Lucy - as mad bunny says, make up your own mind on this one, and I hope you are not put off because in my opinion, Canada is a great place and as long as you understand that coming here may mean some starting over - I am sure you will do fine.

A brief story for you - second day here on the subway I got chatting to a Brit who looked like an old Army Colonel – tall, grey hair, well groomed moustache and a real posh accent.

“Tell me young man� he blustered, “Are you willing to clean public toilets for a living?�
“Yes sir� I replied as I stood to attention, “I will do whatever it takes.�
“Jolly good show� he replied with an approving smile, “You will do fine in Canada.�

The Colonel was right, I have done fine. Sure they have stupid rules and make you jump through hoops, but jump through them and there is a chance to go places, get snotty about it and you will not succeed.


The doc

mad bunny

Oh dear!
Your wife will be general trained as an S.E.N. which is similar to the R.P.N. Canadian nurses follow the general orientation...so yes, it follows that she could take a course and obtain her licensure to practise.
The training is not the same as the U.K. insofar as the specialisms, ie. mental health and learning disabilities are not covered as an 'entire' specialism. So in order to follow through as a licensed nurse, certainly in Ontario, you need to 'top' up the shortcomings of your training. Now as the Canadian curriculum only 'trains' in mental health for 6 weeks (according to the Ontario Nurses Association), I have been advised that all those 'shortcomings' need to be addressed. Modules such as obstetrics, gynae, A&E, etc etc etc.... So go figure the maths.
All of the registered nurse courses in the U.K. are three years, with the exception of the phased out S.E.N.'s, for which training was duly two years.
Further compounded is the FACT that the Ontario Nurses Association no longer recognise the Diploma. It will get you the R.P.N. (like the S.E.N), which is a phased out redundant qualification in the U.K. Currently even as a general trained foreign nurse, you will need a Degree course.
As Lucy indicated that she is undertaking a Diploma and Learning Disabilities U.K. course...sorry to upset your rant, she would not be able to work as a nurse in any capacity whatsoever in Canada, without undertaking her 'shortcomings', which amounts to re-training, at significant cost. I've also looked at moving to other provinces!
As I stated Lucy should NOT take my word for it, and CERTAINLY NOT YOURS!
Instead she should pay her fee to the Ontario Nurses Association, and ascertain for herself, and then she will understand. End of!
Sorry if all this R.M.N. and G grade nursing stuff gets up your nose, it is meant to serve as an illustration to other nurses as to sometimes despite your qualifications/clinical experience they may mean shit!
My experiences in Canada are my experiences.
Please, if you want to give an opinion on qualification suitability, have the good grace to be INFORMED! Certainly ask your wife first!
I relied on an Immigration Consultant, who advised my occupation was in demand, goes without saying you don't always get what you pay for. For my part, I figured, best just to keep earning the money, let the 'experts' look into things for me.
Lucy....Please Please, just pay your fee to the Ontario Nurses Association, it will save you a lot of money and heartache in the long run.
Don't rely on me, and please don't rely on him!
All the best with our studies.

Dr. Who

Sorry also that you relied on an immigration consultant who gave you bad advice – I can see how that might make someone real mad, sour and cynical and turn into a very mad bunny

But one thing we are both saying to Lucy, is NOT to rely on what either of us say - and we both said that to her earlier – for sure they have stupid rules here and the College is the place that can tell you where you stand.

The good thing about this debate is Lucy gets to hear two sides of the coin. She hears comments from someone who came with lots of nursing qualifications and still has no job and someone who came with very few nursing qualifications, was willing to work on getting the upgrades, and gets work with no problem!

The doc

mad bunny

Hi 'Doc',
I'll keep this short, 'cos this subject is getting boring, and I do not want it to end up personal, which is the usual way this forum ticks! So I'll say it for the record...one last time.....
If you are a qualified R.M.N. or R.M.N.H from the U.K. you CANNOT work in Canada, unless you do significant retraining.
By SIGNIFICANT, you are looking at 4 YEARS...minus your 6 weeks.
FACT...I was informed by the Ontario Nurses Association that even to work as a P.S.W. in Canada I would have to undertake between 4-6 months training.
Sorry, but whose taking the piss here!
That's a Care Assistants job...and I need training!
Yep this is the point whereby I get arrogant and snotty! Retraining...****off!
Or should I be grateful for the scenary!
Especially when Canadian ministers have 'researched' that care in mental health is lacking!
You have not made it clear that your wife is a general trained S.E.N. and I'm sorry, but you should...because your post is misleading and inaccurate.
Please do not assume that I am "real mad, sour and cynical and turn into a very mad bunny" ! (How do you take quotes out of a text...as you can tell I'm bloody rubbish with computers...old school girl you see!).
I get pissed off with inequalities, and people who do not listen or comprehend what is being said!
But then again maybe I'm just a Gob Shite, who finds it amusing to waste people's time!
I did rely on an immigration consultant, as do other people on this board...unfortunately, we got a bum deal!
Whatever!!!!
Moved on and moving house...In Canada!..Understand!

Dr. Who

Mad Bunny lets be honest here, you and I know that even back in the UK you are not qualified to work on a general medical ward without significant retraining! You also say that you have a R.M.N. qualification, but Mad Bunny you know full well that this qualifies you to work in a psychiatric setting in the UK but NOT in general nursing - even at a PSW level! So the truth is Mad Bunny, that if all you have is the R.M.N. you can’t get a general nursing job in the in the UK either can you? You are only qualified to work in a psychiatric setting in the UK.

So here in Canada the college is making a fuss about giving you a RN designation and so they should. If they did give you an RN you would be able to then go and get any nursing job and that would not be a good thing Mad Bunny because even in the UK you are not qualified to do that work. In fact Mad Bunny, in the UK it would be illegal to hire you with your R.M.N. in a general nursing position or an a medical ward - except perhaps to do the sweeping up! So I do not want to be mean - but thank goodness the College will not give you an RN! To do that work the college is right - here (as in England) you need significant retraining!

I am really sorry that you did not find out that Ontario does not recognize R.M.N’s before you came, but I have to admit I agree with the College on this one—why should they give you a qualification that would then allow you to do something here that people in the UK will not allow you to do?

liftman

I must agree with the good Doctor here.

My OH is an Operating Department Practitioner.
She completed two years training for work in the operating theatre. Surgery, anaesthetics and recovery. she also did a stint on the wards for pre operative assesments, and post operative return.

Having spoken to the provincial college of Prctical Nurses where we are heading, they seem happy to relicence her as an LPN/RPN, but only in the field she has been trained in. Her restricted licence will be marked OR only.

This makes sense as she has not qualified or trained for general medical wards, and she would be a danger to patients and herself there.

I do feel for you Mad Bunny, that the RMN standard is not acceptable in your province. Have you spoken to the regulatory bodies elsewhere as to their interpretation of your qualifications?
We checked our way across Canada, and found that NS,SK,BC,& ON would accept my wife but the others either would not, or required 12 month "re-evaluation" courses.

Just for your information, my wife is equivalent to an F grade, and is paid the same as one, having the same resposibilities.

mad bunny

There is something fundamentally wrong here...O.K. let's get down to the BASICS.
I trained as a Psychiatric nurse to work in a psychiatric field.
The general nurses train to work within a general field, ie in medical matters.
The learning disabilities work within...you follow
All are initial three year periods of training in their 'CHOSEN' field.
If I had wanted to be a general nurse, I would have done the general training... entry qualifications are exactly the same.
The TRAINING IS DIFFERENT!
This is why they are often referred to as the 'specialisms', ie general. mental health, learning disabilities
Put it this way...would you prefer to have a nurse who has 4 years training to a nurse, (I'm referring to the 3 years initial and the one year diploma), whose clinical experience amounted to 6 weeks training?
Now as a Registered Mental Nurse, I am, and only WISH to work in the areas of MENTAL HEALTH, that I trained for.
I do not wish to work as a general nurse because I am not trained as a general nurse. My skills and competencys are within the arena of mental health, not Midwifery for example.
I don't! want to deliver a baby!
Now give me a mother with post natel depression, or an infertile couple with relationship problems, now that's different.
I have NEVER-EVER CLAIMED to want to be a general nurse. I have NEVER CLAIMED that my qualification should allow me to work as a general nurse.
Even if it did..I WOULD NOT WANT TO!.........CLEAR ENOUGH!
I take bloods to monitor drug levels, that's enough for me, in that department!
That's why I am a Psychiatric nurse...trained to be a psychiatric nurse, and that's why a general nurse...you get my drift!
All are the same duration of training and all the same qualifications to enter!
We 'CHOSE' our vocation, or our orientation! Do you appreciate that notion!
The work is different. A lot of general nurses will 'stitch up' the attempted suicide. I look at why.
I don't want to stitch up..leave it to the professionals. I can put stitches in...and take them out, but the general nurses are much better at it. LOL..Trust me!
Same as I am much better with the big bloke whose punching at the 'demons', or is spitting saliva in your face 'cos he's going to kill you!
Like I said it's horses for courses. Nurses know this. This is why we specialize. I've worked in forensic psychiatry (prisons), as well. The general nurses patch em up, and I look at what precipated it, or what was the rationale. I try and sort out the mental health, my collegue sorts out the physical.....
Canadian nurses understand this, and have just implemented a one year study to look at foreign credentials, and mental health nurses are in there.
Australia and New Zealand both recognise the importance and value of specialist mental health workers. Canada looks like it's about to wake up, and yes it should. This is because of nurses!
Nurses are reasonable and dedicated people. We work with people who feel the same vocation. We use our skills, as determined by our training and clinical experience. We work together for the 'holistic' health. In the U.K. the specialist trained nurses work together...so for example I could be seeing a 40 year suicidal alcoholic mother, with significant medical problems, who was abused as a child and is in an abusive relationship. The mental health issues are fine with me, the medical components of her care, I would consult with a general nurse. My Collegue.
It's referred to as HOLISTIC CARE.
O.K... I hope my inadequate communication skills have allowed the following to sink in....I am a psychiatric nurse from the u.k. who has trained for three years, specifically in mental health. I only want to work in mental health. I have a diploma in community mental health, another one year of training. I have 20 years of clinical training. I was a highly skilled clinician in the U.K.
I am a psychiatric nurse, who wishes to work in psychiatric related field. I am NOT a qualified general nurse...now here's a question for you....Could a qualified nurse from Canada with 6 weeks mental health training work in a psychiatric hospital in the U.K. and more importantly would you as a qualified mental health nurse, want to work with her!
Sorry I cannot make this point any more obvious.
As a mental health nurse from the u.k. my theoretical and clinical experience amount to shit!
I only wish to work in Mental Health, so my contention is RESTRICT ME TO WORK IN MENTAL HEALTH!!! THAT'S ALL I WANT!
EVEN IF IT'S SWEEPING FLOORS...'COS I COULD HELP THE CANADIAN NURSES WITH THEIR 6 WEEKS OF TRAINING OUT!
Liftman, if I was in an operating room, I'd want your wife with me!
Goes without saying. If you were suicidal (boy I'm getting there, with this thread), who would you want!
I'm conceding defeat here...'cos if you don't get it!
'Doc' ...How bloody rude...I sweep a mean floor!

mad bunny

Sorry, I forgot to add. that I actually get paid more, as in overtime, in the U.K. to 'go onto' a general ward.
I love the general wards!

mad bunny

'Doc'
You did'nt talk to your wife!
Please read what I have written CAREFULLY!
No intention to offend, but don't take the ****!