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QM2 for the move- with dogs

QM2 for the move- with dogs

Old Oct 28th 2020, 2:56 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Hmm, yeah that was the thought, or soft-land in Calgary buy a car there and move it to New York to wait for us. We'll have a think around other options here, we were hoping to avoid the cost and headache of car hire...
Got to balance it out though on cost/headache in my opinion.

You soft land a buy a car, drive it to New York, park it up then fly home, not only are you paying 3 weeks parking (and that's having a quick turnaround back home), but an extra months insurance, an extra 10000km on your car in wear/depreciation, an extra 5000km in fuel (since you'd drive one way in a hire car) and whatever costs you'd incur on the way to New York (minimum 2 nights in a motel, more likely 4 or 5)
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
We looked into it - not from NY but from NS, for May/June this year - the move didn't happen due to COVID amongst other things.

In the end it got mighty expensive mighty quickly. My google sheets on the matter suggested for 35 days (10 on ship and 25 on land) averaging 200km a day (which seemed sensible with wanting to see the country, and have a couple of rest days here and there, understanding we'd be stopping every couple of hours to let dogs have water and bathroom - would want time for a shower/evening meal/dog walk etc and its not like we could just check into Motel at 10pm and fall asleep) costed up as below.

Cruise cost £4600
Pet transport £1900 (2 dogs, 1 in large kennel, 1 in small)
Car hire £2800 (one way, largish SUV, being dropped Cranbrook,BC, Calgary was a little bit cheaper according to notes).
Fuel £500
Airbnb + Motel costs for 25 nights - £2800 (this was scoped out on airbnb +booking.com and came to £2572 - but without concrete dates would vary, so added an extra £10 per night just in case)
Food costs on Journey - highly variable depending on cooking facilities and taste but we budgeted £25 p/p per day including road trip snacks £1250

Suddenly we were looking at £15,000ish - couldn't really take much more stuff than flying (as it had to fit in a car we were losing the boot space on, and needed to pack for a cruise too! as well as needing to take dog beds, bowls, food etc in the car) and had the possible stresses on the dogs being at sea for 10 days.

Compared to flights for £400 and then circa £200 per dog, meant the 4 of us (2 humans + 2 dogs) could get across in a day for £1200ish.

Realise you could batter the numbers down quite considerably if you wanted to go 4 up in hyundai i40 and drive 1000km a day, and all my figures were rounded up for both cases

It would have been a really nice way to start our new lives - but balancing risk/cost it didn't seem viable for us. Other options but they didn't seem to save too much included renting a campervan from cruisecanada, or upon soft landing and sorting somewhere to live for our first few months, buying a car - doing 5000km across the country and parking car up in NS before flying home to pick up other half and dogs.
Thank you so much for this breakdown, as we are just at the point of weighing up our options. Flying isn't a deal breaker, but I would really worry about the dogs- I'd like to consider everything else reasonable to put their welfare first. That difference in cost isn't really justifiable, but I didn't think it would be this much, I was happy with a few thousand £s more for the dogs sake! I'm curious about your google sheets breakdown, is this something you made, or is there a template available I could find? We were only guessing/planning on a week road travel, as we weren't thinking of a huge holiday, more a scenic detour. We've got a lot more thinking to do weighing up cost/time/stress etc. but thanks for all of the info! Just out of interest, what are your dogs?
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Thank you so much for this breakdown, as we are just at the point of weighing up our options. Flying isn't a deal breaker, but I would really worry about the dogs- I'd like to consider everything else reasonable to put their welfare first. That difference in cost isn't really justifiable, but I didn't think it would be this much, I was happy with a few thousand £s more for the dogs sake! I'm curious about your google sheets breakdown, is this something you made, or is there a template available I could find? We were only guessing/planning on a week road travel, as we weren't thinking of a huge holiday, more a scenic detour. We've got a lot more thinking to do weighing up cost/time/stress etc. but thanks for all of the info! Just out of interest, what are your dogs?
No template, for a lot of this planned move i set myself up a spreadsheet to budget for everything (and i mean everything!) I just started some tabs as different options. My point would be to start with a blank sheet of paper/spreadsheet and write down logically every step you would need to take for each option, then work out a cost for each step.

You might be able to get it down significantly (not sure how cheap cruises are with the current climate) but for 2 of us and 2 dogs, we were looking £6500 for what I think was a mid may crossing to get off in NS with an outside (non balcony) cabin - we couldn't get away from that. which already put us way over the cost of buying 2 IATA approved crates on facebook, a quick trip to the vets, and chucking them in the hold with us.

If you're willing to average 500km a day, no rest days you might shave £1500 off accommodation and £750 off food, and who knows on car hire - in exchange for a less enjoyable more stressful trip. But for us we couldn't see a reasonable way to get it below £10,000.
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

I flew London to Vancouver with my labrador. Sure i was worried about him but he was in a crate that he was used to for about 11hrs all in - out of his entire life. Im sure he forgot about it moments after he got out since dogs cant judge time anyway. And he was happy to go back into his crate afterwards so it cant have been too traumatic. For the ease and simplicity of just flying in and arriving it was worth it. I would reconsider flying if I were you. Dogs dont know they are on an aerplane afterall, they dont even know what they are, probably just think they are in the back of a car and then I imagine he slept most of the way. I am anxious on flights too but I know that Im 40,000ft in the air, my dog didnt.
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Thank you so much for this breakdown, as we are just at the point of weighing up our options. Flying isn't a deal breaker, but I would really worry about the dogs- I'd like to consider everything else reasonable to put their welfare first. That difference in cost isn't really justifiable, but I didn't think it would be this much, I was happy with a few thousand £s more for the dogs sake! I'm curious about your google sheets breakdown, is this something you made, or is there a template available I could find? We were only guessing/planning on a week road travel, as we weren't thinking of a huge holiday, more a scenic detour. We've got a lot more thinking to do weighing up cost/time/stress etc. but thanks for all of the info! Just out of interest, what are your dogs?
10 days in kennels on a ship compared to 10 hours on a plane, plus the airport bit at each end?
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Just out of interest, what are your dogs?
Forgot to answer the most important question - Basset and a beagle. so beagle would go in a small kennel basset would need a large on the QM2.
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Old Oct 28th 2020, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
We are planning on moving from Staffordshire to Calgary appx. 2022/2023. We currently have a 20 m/o Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, and are on the wait list for a second next year, so we will be looking to travel over with the dogs. Both of us would feel much more comfortable taking the boat travel route as the breed are notoriously emotionally sensitive and we don't want to cause any unnecessary distress, and then it gives us a fantastic opportunity for a cross country road trip once we arrive, something we already love doing for holidays.

Does anyone have any personal experience of the Queen Mary 2 for travel and dog transport, either to New York or Halifax, and the road trips thereafter?
Or any discussion of the dog export process?
This post (and thread) might be of use! https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana.../#post12684122
and this thread https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana...ada-uk-919728/
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 12:18 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
No template, for a lot of this planned move i set myself up a spreadsheet to budget for everything (and i mean everything!) I just started some tabs as different options. My point would be to start with a blank sheet of paper/spreadsheet and write down logically every step you would need to take for each option, then work out a cost for each step.

You might be able to get it down significantly (not sure how cheap cruises are with the current climate) but for 2 of us and 2 dogs, we were looking £6500 for what I think was a mid may crossing to get off in NS with an outside (non balcony) cabin - we couldn't get away from that. which already put us way over the cost of buying 2 IATA approved crates on facebook, a quick trip to the vets, and chucking them in the hold with us.

If you're willing to average 500km a day, no rest days you might shave £1500 off accommodation and £750 off food, and who knows on car hire - in exchange for a less enjoyable more stressful trip. But for us we couldn't see a reasonable way to get it below £10,000.
That's a job for the husband then, he makes a hobby about of organization spreadsheets we'll give a go of running through different options this way, but stress (for people and dogs) is a big deciding factor, which we will have to weigh up with cost. How did you find your dogs after the move, did they settle well, and how do they find the change in lifestyle? Thanks for all of your advice!

Originally Posted by Phaedru5 View Post
I flew London to Vancouver with my labrador. Sure i was worried about him but he was in a crate that he was used to for about 11hrs all in - out of his entire life. Im sure he forgot about it moments after he got out since dogs cant judge time anyway. And he was happy to go back into his crate afterwards so it cant have been too traumatic. For the ease and simplicity of just flying in and arriving it was worth it. I would reconsider flying if I were you. Dogs dont know they are on an aerplane afterall, they dont even know what they are, probably just think they are in the back of a car and then I imagine he slept most of the way. I am anxious on flights too but I know that Im 40,000ft in the air, my dog didnt.
Sounds like it went well- was your lab always crate trained, or did you practice in the air-crate specifically for the flight? Our current dog doesn't mind his soft-sided crate, we use it at events and on holidays, but he doesn't go in by choice just at home. Of course we can and will put more time into crate training, and put early focus on it for the new puppy. Labs are generally known to be pretty happy-go-lucky, and a lot of my concern comes from our breed being very sensitive- it only takes one bad experience for them to refuse something for life

Originally Posted by bats View Post
10 days in kennels on a ship compared to 10 hours on a plane, plus the airport bit at each end?
I realize that neither situation would be a dog's choice, my train of thought is that with the boat we can condition and comfort an emotional dog, whereas the plane is a lot of time essentially abandoned in a new and terrifying situation. One the one hand, we would much prefer to get it over with in as little time as possible, but the stress wouldn't be as peaked with the boat with people around, visits, time out of the crate, dedicated kennel care staff etc. Its a tough decision, hopefully plenty of research and listening to personal experiences will help us to come up with a best plan.
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Many of our members have transported their dogs by air...some from Australia. Out of the hundreds of people that have done so...we have only had a couple that haven’t ended well. Odds are that your dogs will be perfectly fine...but I understand your concerns.

One thing to consider is that many airlines will not transport animals during the cold winter months.
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Ah, it won't let me open those thread!
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Ah, it won't let me open those thread!
How very strange - there is no forum reason that you wouldn't be able to, what error message do you get? Reposting direct links in the hope that you can now access
https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana...ada-uk-919728/
https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana...atwick-924925/
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 3:37 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
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Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
Ah, it won't let me open those thread!
I don’t have a problem opening the links.
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Old Nov 2nd 2020, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by jordanleanne View Post
That's a job for the husband then, he makes a hobby about of organization spreadsheets we'll give a go of running through different options this way, but stress (for people and dogs) is a big deciding factor, which we will have to weigh up with cost. How did you find your dogs after the move, did they settle well, and how do they find the change in lifestyle? Thanks for all of your advice!
We didn't make the move, was planned for May/June this year - but COVID hit, My PR application hasn't come through, I couldn't accompany the other half on her temporary work permit due to travel restrictions, we kept waiting over the summer hoping my PR was going to come through and travel exemptions were to be lifted but it didn't happen.

Honestly spreadsheeting everything, partially kept me sane but also made me realise how quick a moving budget goes out the window - and that moving everything, 6 months rental in a pet friendly place, an SUV, insurance, basic living expenses, new cell phone contract etc cost triple what I'd originally thought.

Your £25 a month car insurance, £15 sim only phone contract, £2500 hatchback you can get over here - gets you nowhere over there.
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Old Nov 3rd 2020, 1:43 am
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

This is for US airlines, Canada makes the data harder to find if not impossible, and US DOT just provides a lot more data on airlines.

This is for 2018 most recent I found with full year stats but gives a bit of an idea.

American transported 61,040 pets with 2 incidents

Hawaiian Airlines 3 animal deaths, with 9,505 animals being transported

United experienced 2 deaths and 1 injury during transport of 44,432 animals

SkyWest transported 32,515 animals with 1 injury and 0 deaths (Skywest operates flights under other airlines banners such as American Eagle, Delta Connection, United Express,and s

Alaska Airlines transported 143,634 with 1 injury and 0 deaths.



Now they don't break down cause of death or injury, so doesn't necessarily mean the airline was negligent.








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Old Nov 3rd 2020, 12:57 pm
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Default Re: QM2 for the move- with dogs

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Many of our members have transported their dogs by air...some from Australia. Out of the hundreds of people that have done so...we have only had a couple that haven’t ended well. Odds are that your dogs will be perfectly fine...but I understand your concerns.

One thing to consider is that many airlines will not transport animals during the cold winter months.
I realise everything will probably be fine, but I just can't help but worry we would hope to time the move march-may time in an ideal world, especially avoiding really hot weather if we do end up travelling by plane.

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
How very strange - there is no forum reason that you wouldn't be able to, what error message do you get? Reposting direct links in the hope that you can now access
https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana...ada-uk-919728/
https://britishexpats.com/forum/cana...atwick-924925/
Apologies, I think my work internet blocked opening links- all fine now, thank you!

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
We didn't make the move, was planned for May/June this year - but COVID hit, My PR application hasn't come through, I couldn't accompany the other half on her temporary work permit due to travel restrictions, we kept waiting over the summer hoping my PR was going to come through and travel exemptions were to be lifted but it didn't happen.

Honestly spreadsheeting everything, partially kept me sane but also made me realise how quick a moving budget goes out the window - and that moving everything, 6 months rental in a pet friendly place, an SUV, insurance, basic living expenses, new cell phone contract etc cost triple what I'd originally thought.

Your £25 a month car insurance, £15 sim only phone contract, £2500 hatchback you can get over here - gets you nowhere over there.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood, it's a shame you've not managed the move! We do naturally over estimate costs so we don't tend to go overbudget, so with your advice we will definitely be cautious. A large part of our waiting before starting an application was to build up good savings so we hopefully don't get caught short. Now we've started, we're actually have a much better picture of the costs associated, but it's hard to get a final idea.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
This is for US airlines, Canada makes the data harder to find if not impossible, and US DOT just provides a lot more data on airlines.

This is for 2018 most recent I found with full year stats but gives a bit of an idea.

American transported 61,040 pets with 2 incidents

Hawaiian Airlines 3 animal deaths, with 9,505 animals being transported

United experienced 2 deaths and 1 injury during transport of 44,432 animals

SkyWest transported 32,515 animals with 1 injury and 0 deaths (Skywest operates flights under other airlines banners such as American Eagle, Delta Connection, United Express,and s

Alaska Airlines transported 143,634 with 1 injury and 0 deaths.



Now they don't break down cause of death or injury, so doesn't necessarily mean the airline was negligent.
Thanks for this, that is actually much lower than I imagined. A large part of my concern is for mental wellbeing, but I realise that either means of transport can have an impact. Of course, there was the lingering thought of dogs dying and being left on the runway and not having access to water which worried me regarding plane travel, so I'm pleased to see it doesn't seem that bad. You naturally hear more of the bad cases that when all goes well!
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