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Need some information please

Need some information please

Old May 22nd 2008, 9:55 pm
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Question Need some information please

Hi all, my fiancee and i have been wanting to emigrate to Canada for about two years now.We saved enough money to have a 21 day driving holiday around eastern Canada,last June (2007).This was also to plug for a place we may like to live etc.As this was quite rushed we never really got the feel for anywhere, and nothing stood out as a really fantastic place to up sticks here in uk and go out there to live.We are 100% wanting to emigrate within the next two years or so and have been accepted on the skilled worker program,but we are confused as to where the ideal place to stay would be.

Our perfect place list would be as follows,

1/ Affordable housing
2/ Climate
3/ Close to city but in suburbs
4/ Great outdoor activities etc

The only place we had time in on our holiday was Ottawa, but after spending a few days there,found it quite boring and speaking to people they say it is extremely cold in winter, sorry to go on and on ,but any info on place would be appreciated,

Thanks again Ryan and Emma.
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Old May 22nd 2008, 10:32 pm
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Default Re: Need some information please

Hello, Ryan and Emma, and welcome to the BE forum.

I don't know what you mean when you say that you want to emigrate in the next two years and then go on to say that you've been accepted by the skilled worker program. If you've received permanent residence visas, you have one year from the time of your medicals in which to "land" and activate your PR status.

However, with that said, you could "land" in Canada and return to the UK to settle up your affairs there before permanently returning to Canada. Once you have activated your PR status, you have to be in Canada for a cumulative total of 2 years out of any 5 year period if you want to maintain your PR status.

You can find out housing prices by looking at the Multiple Listing Service website.

Every place on earth has a climate, so I'm not quite sure how to answer that question. If you don't want cold winters, you might consider the British Columbia coast (but most of it receives more rain than the UK, and most of it is not particularly affordable).

There's also Australia. I'm not being facetious when I say that. I've lived there, and I liked it very much indeed. But one of the downsides, from a British expat's point of view, is the distance from the UK.

Every city has a ring of suburbs around it. So, without knowing other factors that could narrow down the selection, it's tough to say more about that.

Ottawa has great outdoor activities nearby, but you heard that the winters there are cold (which is true) and you found it boring, so I don't know what to say about that either.

Many Canadian cities have outdoor activities nearby, so that doesn't help to narrow things down very much.

On international quality of life surveys that multi-national companies like Mercer do, Vancouver consistently comes out in the top ten cities world-wide. Often it's in the top three. My husband told me that this year it ranked number one.

Sydney and Melbourne (in Australia) often are right up there too, often in the top three as well. I've lived in Melbourne, and can attest that it lives up to its claim that it's a very livable city.

When it comes to internal quality of life surveys within Canada, the eastern half of Canada usually fares better than the western half of Canada. But it depends who's measuring and what criteria they're using. If they're measuring economic factors, the western half of the country ranks better than it does on overall quality of life surveys.

On one internal quality of life survey that I saw, Victoria, BC was the only Western Canadian city in the top ten.

I personally think Vancouver has a great quality of life from the point of view that you're close to skiing as well as water sports. The downsides are that real estate is expensive and rush hour traffic is bad.

Although I've never been there myself, Halifax, Nova Scotia usually ranks highly on the quality of life surveys of Canadian cities.

If you told us what kind of work you did, it might help us to help you narrow down the choices.

Hope that helps.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 7:25 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Hello and welcome to the site.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Info on Canada welcomed please

Hello,Judy thankyou for replying so quickly and hi to everyone else.Looking at my message i was really quite vague with things,i will try to give more detail now.I currently run my own heating business,servicing,repairing,replacing oil-fired boilers (furnaces)heating systems etc.My fiancee, is at the moment, a stay at home mum looking after our 5 year old child.We live in Cornwall in southwestern England.

We have taken the online assessment test through the skilled worker section and it came back that we passed the points system and could very well be accepted etc.I no that this could take anywhere up to 3 years before we can be accepted.We thought in that case we would start very soon.The only reason we have not, is the fact that we have not made our minds up where in Canada we would want to live, also people have told us that when you do apply to emigrate that you are not allowed to visit.

The reasons for leaving cornwall and the UK are,

Lack of affordable housing
No future for children ( eg education is poor,yob culture is bad)
The weather (it rains or is overcast pretty much all the time)
Overcrowded everywhere
In Cornwall lack of recreational things to do,especially in the winter
Fed up with English pub culture
Fed up with English yob culture
Fed up with British class system
Fed up with unhappy,overworked,overstressed British people (no-one is happy anymore)
Fed up with the live to work society that is now Britain,where people work all the hours god sends just to get by and to pay the bills.

Sorry the list goes on and on,which is our reasons for wanting to escape.People think we are mad for leaving Cornwall one of the tourist hotspots in the UK.It can be nice in the summer but thats where it ends,we have both lived here all our lives and we are so bored with the place.It is a lovely place to retire too but not for a young family.It is overcast pretty much all the time,there is not a great deal to do,you have to drive everywhere to do anything, and when the summer finally does come Cornwall gets millions of tourists, so the roads,beaches and the few attractions are jam packed.

Sorry for all the depressing details above but i hope this gives you an insight in too what we might be after in Canada,i no everywhere has its problems but i still think that a better quality of life can be found there.

Australia and New zealand sound lovely but its just too far away for us.In europe no-one speaks English so that counts that out too.Plus we found Canadian people so friendly when we visited last year.

So things that might narrow down our search is,

Anywhere from central Canada to the eastside,so it is not as far away for friends and family visiting
Somewhere it doesnt rain all the time and is not grey and overcast
Somewhere with a good community spirit and friendly people
Affordable houses
Great attractions and things to do for children
Great Job prospects
Good schools and colleges

I hope i have not depressed anyone with this, we would just like some options from people who live or have lived in Canada and can recommend places to visit and potentially live,

Thankyou and regards,Ryan and Emma.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 9:29 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Firstly, hello and welcome!

A few things that I would comment on about your posts - firstly, that skilled worker applications are apparently taking at least 5 years to be processed now, not 3 years as you have said. Have a look at the following paragraphs which I've taken from the Wiki for more info................

"There frequently are new threads on the Canada forum in which new posters ask questions about the points they've scored on Citizenship and Immigration Canada's self-assessment test.

There was a time when points counted for something.
For all practical purposes, that time has come and gone.
Points are relevant only when you apply for a permanent residence visa via the skilled worker route.
During 2006 and 2007, the waiting times for skilled worker visas without pre-arranged employment had grown to 5 - 8 years (depending on the visa posts to which applications had been submitted).
As the result of legislation tabled on March 14, 2008, it is anticipated that processing times for skilled worker visa applications without pre-arranged employment will grow even longer.
Estimates are that a skilled worker application without pre-arranged employment no longer will be a practical route to Canada. "

"Legislation tabled on March 14, 2008 suggests that even greater priority will be given to applicants who have pre-arranged employment in Canada and who enter by means of temporary work permits or Provincial Nominee Programs or by means of the Canadian Experience Class that is going to be introduced in the autumn of 2008. The number of skilled worker applicants without pre-arranged employment who will be granted entry to Canada is likely to become so small as to be inconsequential. Please see the BE forum discussion thread entitled [**** Amendments to IRPA as tabled ****]" http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=521862


And ignore the people that have told you you can't visit Canada once you've applied to immigrate there - what rubbish! Of course you can. There is no reason to delay your application any longer - you don't need to decide where you want to live before you apply, so you can apply and then start visiting different areas to get an idea of what you want. You'll have many years to decide. Have a look at these Wiki articles about regions of Canada and recce trips which may help........

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Catego...to_live-Canada

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Scouting_Trip-Canada

Also, that if you don't want cold weather then Canada may really not be for you! The vast majority of Canada gets long cold winters, apart from coastal BC which gets long wet winters instead! You say you want to be in Eastern Canada so you need to be prepared for lots of snow and cold - if you can't do that then you might need to rethink.

Another thing that I would say is that if you found Ottawa boring then are you sure Canada is for you? Ottawa is after all the capital and a major city so most other places are not going to be any more exciting! Most people seem to say that the laid back lifestyle is one of the major bonuses of living in Canada, together with the outdoorsy lifestyle, but that may not suit you if you're after non-stop excitement?

Lastly, you might want to have a really good look at the Wiki for more info on everything about Canada, including how to get to Canada before 2013 if you want to speed things up a bit!

Best of luck, hope that has helped a bit.

Last edited by christmasoompa; May 23rd 2008 at 9:45 am.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 9:44 am
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Default Re: Info on Canada welcomed please

Hi there and welcome to BE.

I can offer some info on the points you make. I hope that you find this helpful

Originally Posted by RY AND EM
I no that this could take anywhere up to 3 years before we can be accepted.
Secondly, you really stand no chance of getting in within 3 years if you don't have arranged employment. The best thing to do would be to try to get work and either go over on a work permit or PNP or apply for PR with arranged employment.

I suggest that you have a really good look at the WIKI pages and search existing threads for further information. The immigration forum has had many threads recently about the likelyhood of getting in at all through skilled worker without arranged employment.


also people have told us that when you do apply to emigrate that you are not allowed to visit.
I don't know who told you that you can't visit Canada once you have applied for PR as that is rubbish. We, and many others have made several trips over whilst our application is in progress.

Fed up with the live to work society that is now Britain,where people work all the hours god sends just to get by and to pay the bills.
You need to be aware that you will have less annual leave in Canada (probably only 2-3weeks) and that you may still be working just as many hours. having said that, people do seem to find time to enjoy themselves and there is alot of open space to do it.

you have to drive everywhere to do anything,
Unless you are right in the middle of a city you will probably do far more driving than you do now. Canada is a big country with alot of open space but that does mean longer distances between places. There are alot of activities for kids, but the parents spend alot of time driving them around and helping out. Much more input than is typical in the UK

Anywhere from central Canada to the eastside,so it is not as far away for friends and family visiting
Check flight routes if easy travel is important to you. For Nova Scotia you can only fly from Gatwick or Glasgow, you should check your local airport to see if they fly to Toronto or Montreal.

Affordable houses
Great attractions and things to do for children
Housing is quite cheap in NS or NB but as for great attractions there is not an abundance of theme parks etc but there are plenty of beautiful places if you mean natural attractions.

Great Job prospects
You are going to a new country so you will probably be starting further down the ladder than you are now.

Good schools and colleges
Most people seem happy with schools in Canada but you can search for more info on this as it is a frequent subject of discussion
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old May 23rd 2008, 2:50 pm
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Default Re: Info on Canada welcomed please

Originally Posted by RY AND EM
Anywhere from central Canada to the eastside,so it is not as far away for friends and family visiting
Somewhere it doesnt rain all the time and is not grey and overcast
Somewhere with a good community spirit and friendly people
Affordable houses
Great attractions and things to do for children
Great Job prospects
Good schools and colleges
It seems to me that what you're looking for is not another country but rather another planet.
x
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Old May 24th 2008, 4:20 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Ryan and Emma, we didn’t get off to a very good start. I’m going to take another crack at this and try to explain to you why I found it so difficult to respond to you the first go round.

First of all, you've actually been to Canada. If you travelled around the eastern half of Canada for three weeks and nothing called out to you, how am I supposed to resolve the dilemma you appear to be experiencing? You want to leave the UK, you don't want to go as far afield as Australia, but Canada didn't particularly appeal to you. Well, I'd say you have a problem, and I don't know how to fix it. I'm not trying to be facetious. I really mean it.

You seem picky about climate but, frankly, I don't consider the climate in any part of Canada to be brilliant. So, unless you have a very compelling reason to tolerate Canada’s climate, as I do, are you going to be able to pick your dummy up off the floor and soldier on in winter?

I think you are mistaken in believing that the eastern half of Canada necessarily has shorter flights from the UK. Yes, this would be true in the case of cities that have direct, non-stop connections. But, if you have to catch a connecting flight, it might cancel out the difference. Let's suppose you lived in Fredericton, New Brunswick. (I have nothing against Fredericton. I’ve never been there. I'm just using it for purposes of illustration.) The shortest journey I could find from London to Fredericton was 11 hours 40 minutes (this involved a change of planes at Montreal). Non-stop flights from London to Vancouver, on the other hand, take around 9.5 hours. I agree that proximity to the UK is a factor, but is it an overwhelming factor? (It is for some British expats, and it isn't for others.)

Affordable housing and great job prospects generally do not go hand in hand. Usually you have to choose one or the other. That’s the way it’s been in every country in which I've lived. Although I've never lived in the UK, I would have thought it was the same there. It was this (to my mind) unrealistic pair of items in your wish list that, more than anything else, prompted me to comment that you must have been looking for another planet.

Most of us want to find Utopia, but I don't know anyone on this forum or in "real life" who has found it. Each of us has made greater or lesser compromises.

I think you are in what I would call the denial stage of emigration planning. That is, you haven’t come to grips with the trade offs that you’re going to have to make if you emigrate. Many people discover what these trade offs are once they’re already living in a foreign country. It’s impossible to research the consequences thoroughly enough. You can think you’ve found out everything in advance, but there still can be surprises that knock you for six. Still, even if you can’t foresee all the potential consequences of emigrating, I think it would help you if you tried to anticipate as many of them as possible.

With that in mind, I suggest you go through the following steps:
  1. Spend a couple of weeks reading the Moving Back To The UK forum (if you haven’t read it already). I consider it essential reading for anyone who is contemplating emigration.

  2. Read the articles in the Canada Challenges section of the Wiki.

  3. After doing that, rethink whether or not you really want to emigrate.

  4. Reconsider whether or not Canada is a suitable destination for you. (I’m not sure that it is.)

  5. If you still want to emigrate and if you still think Canada is your preferred destination, take your wish list and rank it.

Here is an effective methodology for ranking. Take each point and rank it against each other point. Let me run you through the exercise.

Your wish list was:


(a) Anywhere from central Canada to the eastside, so it is not as far away for friends and family visiting

(b) Somewhere it doesnt rain all the time and is not grey and overcast

(c) Somewhere with a good community spirit and friendly people

(d) Affordable houses

(e) Great attractions and things to do for children

(f) Great Job prospects

(g) Good schools and colleges



Take (a) and compare it against (b). If you had only these two factors to consider, which of them would be more important? Assign a score of 1 to the one that wins and a score of 0 to the one that loses.

Then take (a), compare it against (c), and apply the same scoring system.

Then do this with (a) and (d).

Keep going until you've compared (a) with every other point.

Repeat this exercise by comparing (b) against every other point.

Then compare (c) against every other point.

And so on, until each point has been compared with each other point.

Add up the score that each item has received.

Finally, re-order the items according to the scores they've received.

If you encounter situations in which it’s impossible to get everything you want (affordable housing and great job prospects may be irreconcilable, for example), you’ll know what’s more important to you.

Hope that helps.
x

Last edited by Judy in Calgary; May 24th 2008 at 5:00 am. Reason: Typo
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Old May 24th 2008, 9:15 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Hi thankyou too everyone that replied.I have read them all and i have found more information than when i started,so thats great.I did not realize it would take so long to move unless we had a job offer etc.I think another year or so working out exactly what we want would be good.Thanks again,

Kind regards,Ryan and Emma.
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Old May 24th 2008, 11:31 am
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Smile Re: Need some information please

Hi RY and Em, i have just been reading your plight and the replies you have had. i have to say that the majority of people on this forum are very helpful and understanding but i cant help noticing that some replies can be very irritating and sarcastic which is very unhelpful and im sure some would agree clearly not for these forums. my husband and i are in the very early stages and we are going to attend the expo in june (if you dont know about them you could search it its called expo 08) i think there is one in london. we havent done a recce as yet but do plan to do in september. as many people have said- it doesnt matter how much research you do it will never prepare you enough for the real thing. i only joined here a couple of days ago, those who have suggested looking at the wiki are correct, it is a good source of information. i have emailed one particular member on numerous occasions to get her advice about how she applied (PNP/TWP or PR) as she does the same job as me. she is moving to the same area as my husband and I are interested in (maple ridge in BC) and has secured a job at the local hospital. were going to speak on the phone tonight! perhaps you could ask if there is anyone on the forum who does a similar job in canada to you and get their advice. as for the climate, if you dont want the very cold weather then the alternative is the rain and lets face it it rained in england ALL summer, most of autumn and winter last year, so im sure the outdoor opportunities far outweigh the rain!

anyway, we wish you the best of luck and hope you come to a decision soon.
kae.
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Old May 24th 2008, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: Need some information please

Hey Kae,thankyou for your message,yes some of the comments we can do without ,but comments like yours are what we were after joining this site.When we visited Canada for almost a month last june it rained only 1 hour in almost three weeks.It was so hot everywhere that we had to pinch ourselves we were in canada and not Spain!!!!! It was that hot.The weather isnt really a major issue because if you had seasons where summer is hot,winter is cold and so on,things wouldnt matter.But in England as you no it is either raining or overcast pretty much all the time,even in June/July,so you spend all your time indoors and as we have a child watching tv is no longer an option.We are of the opinion that you only live once,and at the minute it feels like we are wasting it here.Anyway thanks for the message and the advice and i hope your move etc,goes well,

Regards,Ryan and Emma.
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Old May 24th 2008, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Need some information please

Originally Posted by RY AND EM
yes some of the comments we can do without
Can you give me an example? I'm slightly confused as to which comments haven't been helpful (and even worse, as kmcguiness has described them 'irritating and sarcastic').

Please do try to remember that people such as myself, and the always incredibly helpful Judy (who should take credit for a huge chunk of the Wiki, having given large amounts of her time to write lots of it, in case you didn't know) have taken time out to try and help you.

Nobody has been unhelpful to my mind - although some comments have been negative, they've only been so to try and highlight something that might be an issue for you from your original post. For instance, you said that you didn't like Ottawa as it's 'extremely cold in winter' - well, so is the vast majority of Canada, which is one of the things we all pointed out. You then go on to say in your most recent post that you don't mind that if you have a hot summer (which again, the majority of Canada has) but nobody knew that from your first post.

Sorry if you feel that the replies weren't helpful but I genuinely don't see how they weren't.

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Old May 25th 2008, 7:49 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Originally Posted by christmasoompa
Can you give me an example? I'm slightly confused as to which comments haven't been helpful (and even worse, as kmcguiness has described them 'irritating and sarcastic').

Please do try to remember that people such as myself, and the always incredibly helpful Judy (who should take credit for a huge chunk of the Wiki, having given large amounts of her time to write lots of it, in case you didn't know) have taken time out to try and help you.

Nobody has been unhelpful to my mind - although some comments have been negative, they've only been so to try and highlight something that might be an issue for you from your original post. For instance, you said that you didn't like Ottawa as it's 'extremely cold in winter' - well, so is the vast majority of Canada, which is one of the things we all pointed out. You then go on to say in your most recent post that you don't mind that if you have a hot summer (which again, the majority of Canada has) but nobody knew that from your first post.

Sorry if you feel that the replies weren't helpful but I genuinely don't see how they weren't.
if you stick around ontario/quebec you will find ample jobs reasonable housing realstate
go further east like the east coast mentioned above and your housing is cheaper, but not many jobs available and almost no good paying jobs..
the east is the poorest part of the country
go west and wages go up substancially but so does the housing costs
calgary and edmonton alberta are SCREAMING for people to work...
this is where simple pertrol station jockies get $25 an hour
but your gonna spend min. 1/2 mil for a house

ontario/quebec housing is still moddest $200k or so
eastern provinces under $100k
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Old May 25th 2008, 10:46 am
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Default Re: Need some information please

Whilst you can get housing for $100k in the Easter provinces, it will restrict your choice of house and location greatly. I would tend to budget at least double that. Still cheap by UK standards though.
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Old May 25th 2008, 5:11 pm
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Default Re: Need some information please

Originally Posted by jerry69
if you stick around ontario/quebec you will find ample jobs reasonable housing realstate
go further east like the east coast mentioned above and your housing is cheaper, but not many jobs available and almost no good paying jobs..
the east is the poorest part of the country
go west and wages go up substancially but so does the housing costs
calgary and edmonton alberta are SCREAMING for people to work...
this is where simple pertrol station jockies get $25 an hour
but your gonna spend min. 1/2 mil for a house

ontario/quebec housing is still moddest $200k or so
eastern provinces under $100k
Quebec is fine if migrants are fluent in French, but is a less realistic option if they are not.

Ontario is a feasible option for some migrants, but in quite a few fields it's more difficult to get a Labour Market Opinion / Temporary Work Permit in Ontario than it is in some other provinces.
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