dbd33

Can they skate? They'll be socially disadvantaged if they cannot.

SoftwareDev

Ngulra

Thanks for these responses. We've applied to a range of schools and will see what happens.

One thing to keep in mind. If you child is coming to Toronto before grade 3, when they get to grade 3 they will be tested in the public system for giftedness (CCAT test). We started in grade 3 in September and I just heard he tested as highly gifted. I am not sure he is actually gifted though, or whether he had a lot more 'academics' in his British school! But now it seems a range of specialised public schools are open to us on top of private options. I'm not sure how a public gifted school compares to some of the top Toronto private schools mentioned in this thread. Thoughts welcome!

Partially discharged

My own thoughts. Our two children (now 19 and 23) both went through the public system from the beginning. We never even considered the 'fee paying' route. My father went through it in the UK (I didn't) and found the schooling to be good for his field and ensured he got into university in the UK in the 50's when few did. Here in Canada our daughter went through the french immersion system, went to the catchment area schools and graduated and went on to university. Our son was identified as 'gifted' about grade 3 and we resisted that stream until grade 9. He went to the 'gifted' high school (which also had catchment area students and ESL students) and did well and is now at university in a program he likes. It was the right thing for him as I think he could have got bored especially in math and science with the standard academic stream of some classes in high school.

The IB school in Ottawa is about 30 km away with commute times not much fun but there is a dedicated bus that gets you there. However, with the distance/commute times it takes up a lot of time you could be doing other things.

In terms of private schools, I know 2 alumni of a well known girls private school in Toronto. One did well in her career, the other (daughter of the one who did well) was accepted as she was a daughter of an alumni, lived there as a boarder, somehow was passed along and graduated. She went to a university that wouldn't be an "A" list university in Ontario and halfway through first year quit as she couldn't handle it as it was discovered she was dyslexic and couldn't keep up. Somehow, the private school never knew this ??

Everybody has different experiences, but I think there are other options than private schools in Toronto.

HGerchikov

I have reservations about the Gifted program, here is why.

The school my boys went to was a very highly rated state school. It offered enhanced classes in various subjects, mainly Maths and Science. Both of my boys were late developers, so did not come out as gifted in grade 3 (in fact one of them never took the test as he was in Gr 4 when we moved), however they had hit their stride by high school.
The way the enhanced classes worked was that any child designated as gifted had an automatic spot in all the classes - if there were any spaces left then they were filled with other high performing kids. Both my boys made it to the Enhanced Maths class. The eldest one was lucky as there were not so many gifted kids in his year so once he gained his spot and continued to maintain his high grades his spot wasn't threatened. The younger one however was in a year with a lot of gifted students.

He won a spot in Grade 9 into the Enhanced Math along with a few other non gifted kids. By Grade 10 other gifted children had arrived at the school resulting in the non gifted being removed from the class. By the end of Grade 10 my son was the only non gifted student who still had his spot. In many cases the kids who lost their place had significantly better marks than the gifted kids who took it. It didn't matter what their marks were - their place was guaranteed.
My son went on to win the school maths prize at graduation for the highest overall mark (100%) and yet if just one more child who at age 8 had been determined to be smarter than other kids (even if currently running a 40% average) had joined the school then he would have been kicked out of the enhanced class.

I don't feel that this is a great situation for the non gifted students - but I think it is considerably worse for the gifted ones who get the place regardless of effort or results - how to instigate a sense of entitlement in one easy lesson.

Ngulra

Agreed, this sounds hugely unfair. But would you say that the enhanced maths programme your boys took was on par with what they would have gotten at a private school? Did their social skills suffer by being streamed with 'gifted' kids and their high-performing ilk?

HGerchikov

I recognise that this is a very small sample size but our neighbour's son went to one of the best private schools in the country (certainly expensive). The neighbours paid my son (who was the same age) to tutor him. Another family I know with 4 boys sent the oldest two to private school - they were already in the private system in the UK. The youngest two though started in the state system here and the parents felt no need to switch them to private as they felt the education they were getting was on a par.

By the time our boys were in the enhanced class their social skills were already developed, and a lot of their friends from before were already in the program, I noticed no issues and, in the case of the older one, his confidence rocketed as a result of the recognition of his efforts. Also, due to the lack of academic pressure in their early years they were both able to pursue other activities, like sports. So, as well as the Math prize our youngest also won a top player award on the varsity ice hockey team.

My opinion is that, provided your child isn't causing trouble due to be under challenged at school, just roll with it. They really do catch up by the time they leave school and the system allows them the time to develop into more rounded individuals. If you go back to the UK before they are 12 or 13 then they may need a few private tutoring sessions to align them with the UK curriculum but sounds like they are bright so shouldn't be too much of a problem for them.

MillieF

Oakvillian

Refer to DBD's comments way up-thread. The core-curriculum education in private schools, so far as I can tell from those parents and high-school age kids I know who are in both the private and public systems, is no better or worse than that available in the public system, especially if you're in a state-funded school that offers the IB programme. I have no direct experience of the gifted programme in my school board, but know several parents who are moderately unhappy with the way it's delivered, finding that their kids are more socially isolated than they would be in the "general population." Of course, some of those kids have a tendency towards social awkwardness anyway, but I don't think the gifted streaming helps.

In terms of facilities for sports, creative arts, and extracurriculars, there's no doubt that the money in the private system makes for stronger provision, there's often a wider selection of "stuff," a stronger faculty for visual arts, music, drama, etc. But even there, public high schools hold their own: the school my eldest son attends (and my younger kids will follow him into in due course) has a very strong reputation for music and drama, for example, and he's been able to study vocal performance as part of his core courseload. The downside is that publicly-funded schools are beholden to the funding whims of government, so crap like a 50% cut in permanent music staff leads to combined-grade courses and larger class sizes. But that doesn't seem to stop the kids.

The other thing that private schools buy you is a network of other moderately-to-extremely-wealthy people, who will become the captains of industry and the bulwarks of government in their adult life. If there's a possibility your kids may not stay in Canada through university and beyond, that network becomes worth much less. IMO, this is what parents are buying when they pay for private education. There's maybe an illusion that the education itself is somehow better, but there is no evidence to support that assertion.

Secam

It is interesting that Canada consistently ranks tops in the world for education, and yet those moving to Canada find that in the early grades their children are far ahead of Canadian students. My only thinking is that Canada starts slower than other countries.

dbd33

I think the accepted view on this site is that Canadian education does start slowly and then catches up with the result at the end of high school being the same. Obviously this matters if moving children between countries while they're in high school but, otherwise, probably not.