Motivations for emigration
 

I am curious as to what reasons people have for emigrating to Canada.

Immigrants traditionally left their countries because of "push" factors like economic hardship, political oppression and religious persecution, but these elements do not exist in the UK, or if so to a lesser degree.

It could be said that you have to have a real yearning to leave your birth country and all things familiar, family friends, support network and culture. The major "pull' factors for Canada as I see it are largely lifestyle, and economic factors.

Here are my push and pull reasons from a micro perspective.

Push
Long term London life wasn't for me. I enjoyed my life in the UK , but I was looking for more.


Pull
The Canadian Rockies :wub:
Home work life balance.
To enjoy more of an outdoor life.
Adventure.
To learn and experience new things.
To have more space.
To SKI all the time. :D



So what are your push and pull factors?

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Cheap houses.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Push and pull factors were inextricably linked for us, and included:

• running out of space in London flat (planning/expecting 2nd child at start of process)
• needed to move out of London, probably westward, to afford bigger place and a garden
• commute into London would have been hideous if we'd moved far enough out to afford what we wanted
• Intra-company transfer opportunity came up in the middle of discussing all this
• had been thinking about Canada for a while, but not done anything concrete about it
• thought process along the lines of "OK, it's a bit further west than we first thought but what the hell" :D
• sorted out WP, sold up and shipped out in 6 months

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Hey, just because they're made of wood doesn't make them cheap :p

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Reasons?

More Money, Better job...

Reason I returned to the UK

More Money, Better job...

Reason I came back

More Money Better Job!!

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I've never emigrated. But have thought about it from time to time over the years. Nothing really pushing the thoughts. The pull is mostly adventure.

Although I was quite taken with England when we went for a vacation last summer (3 weeks in July and August with about 2 days of rain). Since being there, there hasn't been a day go by that I haven't wondered what it would be like to live there. There is a pull to visit again at the very least. What did it for me was you can't go anywhere without finding history.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Don't like the English.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Push: Mrs AX wanted to come home
Pull: Space, Cheap housing, doing something different. Continuing to be with Mrs AX!

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Ok so we are not emigrating at the moment but ours are very similar to yours:

Push
We really like most of our life in UK but for various reasons have got really fed up with our respective jobs. Long commutes/travel for OH. Way more stress for OH for no more money- job moving away from any technical capacity into purely management (70 staff from 20) due to takeover.

We need to move house anyway (bigger, neeed garage for bikes etc) but are having problems affording it given where we live.

Lots of our friends/relations have recently popped away for a few years or more NZ, Singapore, Kiev, The Hague and we realised we can do it to and in some ways this gave us lots of confidence.

Relatively poor pay for OH profession

Pull
Skiing
Rockies
Adventure
A change
Less commute for OH- so more time with kids and more time for excercise
A change for my job which will pull me in a direction I want to go back to
Relatively better pay for OH profession plus company look really nice (think they have less stress at work - in a similar manner to Almost Candian was saying)
Relocation package
Dental for free!
Have more of an outdoor lifestyle (eg mountains in summer)
Better lifestyle/economic factors

Some of our pulls could be achieved in the UK and at the moment we plan to return to UK after around 5 years. BUT we are pretty fluid and admit plans could change.

We had thought about canada a very short time really. Thought about NZ 10 years ago and pretty much got job there, but we relocated in UK due to other job offers. France (again the pull of the mountains) came up around 6 years ago pre-kids when I applied for a redundancy package which I didn't get- would have been 2 years pay) Canada came up in October when we saw an ad for recruitment drive in UK, but we did nothing as we were worried about 10 days annual leave (and I know this statement won't make me popular). End Jan / feb having got back from skiing (last cheaper holiday outside school hols) we gave it more thought, realised 10 days wouldn't apply and went for it. Looks like its coming off as its just dependant on LMO/work permit which should be a formality.

Gryphea

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Push - After completing 22 years in the Army, spending most of that time away from the UK and spending lots of time away from wife and kids, just didn't want to settle into life in UK.

Pull - Quality time with family, working hard mon to fri with weekends free.
Community spirit and quality of life in area we have chosen to relocate to. The great outdoors to explore and be active as a family. Calgary Flames!

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

for us i can pick out a lot of the above reasons but one big one is to let our kids experience a move , learn and grow .
hopefully it will give them the confidence to do more exploring in their lives.
i spoke to someone who came back from 6 months work exchange in NZ with the view to moving there . and they said there just wasnt enough of a good reason to leave the UK .
i think this will be a hard question to answer whilst still living in the UK

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Push:

• Worn out from daily london life (attitudes, commutes, dirtiness, yob culture)
• House prices so high couldn't really move up the ladder just sort of along it unless we moved out of London but our jobs are London-centric
• So tired of being far from friends (even a few miles takes ages to travel in London)
• Wanted our kids to have similar childhoods to us (playing outside w/neighbourhood kids - not yobs, lots of activities)

Pull

• Mountains
• Sea
• Friends
• Affordable nice houses
• Friendly people

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Pull:

Souvette had no real option but to come back to Canada. I could just as easily be living in Latvia, Mongolia or wherever she hailed from.

Push:

None whatsoever.

Suck-back?:

I've had a few days on draught London Pride (I'm in the UK at the moment). That does tug on the heart strings a bit.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Push
None at moment because we currently live is one of the last small pockets of the UK where quality/standard of life is above average, but future pushes will probably be:

• UK employement culture - back stabbers, staleness
• UK inevitable demise in economy. Currently unsubstainable.
• Spread of yob culture.

Pull

• Better future for our kids as a result of larger country, small population
• Open spaces
• Better value for money - housing at least
• Weather although at present, UK (Wales at least) is basking in typically Canadian blue skies and has done for over a month with only one day of rain!
• Experience and adventure, particularly for the kids.

Retention

• Family
• Risk of losing quality/standard of life we already have

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Have to echo what Welshmountie said, although I am from Wales (not as nice a place as you I expect - Merthyr Tydfil :unsure: ), now live in Cornwall.

I have always had this yearning to go and live in a different country, just to experience what it is like and to learn about different cultures etc. Did think about NZ and OZ but they are too far away from UK and really wanted somewhere with all types of weather. I like the cold in winter and heat in summer.

Good thread. :thumbup:

Karen

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

My pushes and pulls are the same as everyone elses plus I worry about my daughter growing up in the UK which is a push and a pull because I think Canada would be more wholesome for her (and us).

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

That's interesting. I feel that I've let my children down a bit by making them grow up here (even though they did go home for the summers and for their gap years). Money's important but, perhaps, it shouldn't be everything.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I would imagine that money is less important in Canada than in GB? The whole consumer thing is totally out of control over here - riots over clothes stores opening up, queuing 10 deep to get a celebrity endorsed shopping bag etc. Does this happen in Canada too?

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

It's different in that Canada doesn't have fashion so there's no stampede to buy clothes or CDs. However, in the case of people moving from the UK, I think money is critical to the motivation. Canadian houses are cheap so people who move can buy more; not necessarily more of the same things but more land and lots of gas powered things; trucks, speed boats, skidoos, snowmobiles, ATVs and so on (what they unironically call an "outdoor lifestyle"). What's sacrificed for that is culture, history, family and appreciation of language so I think there's a case that emigration to Canada is the choice of the shallow and materialistic person.

<typed the owner of two SUVs and a recreational tractor>

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

really like the idea of a recreational tractor , do you hit the highway on it at weekends?

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Oh no, I just sit on it in the shed and stare down the bonnet imagining it to be a Lotus 7...

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Well for me land and space and the ability to buy a house are big factors in moving to Canada. However, surely Canada has a very diverse culture (excepting the aboriginal peoples of course) so immigration from diverse cultures doesn't have an impact? Unless you mean people leaving their own countries are sacrificing their own culture and language which doesn't really apply to Brits anyway?

I am intrigued by the thought of a 'recreational tractor' too.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I do mean that Brits give up their history and culture. That's not something people know they have until they come here and lose it, not that it's specifically a British problem. I know some Koreans, for example, feel the same way. In the context of children raised here I think it unfortunate, for example, that they have no appreciation of why old paintings and books have significance to people who haven't even seen the paintings or read the books. It's a subtle thing but raising children in the shallowness of Canadian society is, I think, an unfortunate trade for having more gadgets.

I don't think Canada has a diverse culture. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver include a diversity of cultures, the extent to which they could said to be Canadian is arguable, but most of the country is stunningly homogenous; it's easy to find people who have never seen anyone who is a different colour.

I realise, of course, that my points conflict to a degree, people in the cities likely haven't heard of, for example, Shakespeare, because he didn't write in their language and people in rural areas haven't heard of him because they don't get cable. A country with both immigrants and rednecks does have some diversity; however they're hundreds of miles apart and that's not diversity in the sense that India, for example, has diversity of languages and religions.

If you come for a bucket ride you'll understand how a tractor can be recreational. It's not a sexual position, honest!

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Interesting viewpoint - I find myself once again agreeing with you up to a point, dbd, and then again.... I wouldn't expect the Canadian education system to instil a great affinity for British (or Korean, for that matter) history or culture. My view is that it's up to parents to promote an understanding and appreciation of the "old country" culture and history in their children.

I agree that there's a shallowness of society that lives for today and measures success largely by material possessions. However, Canadians are widely acknowledged on the world stage to be generous of their time and resources, environmentally conscientious, ready to volunteer in a crisis, and so on (at least as individuals, if not the Government) so there's possibly some sort of seeking for "goodness" as a replacement for culture and history going on.

Having said that, my children are too young yet to have started full time schooling so perhaps I'll revise my views and become more cynical over the next few years. In the meantime, I'll hang on to my (forlorn?) hope that we as parents can pass on some of our own cultural values to our kids in spite of the apparent shallowness of society. Somewhere I have a copy of Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare that I read as a youngster - that should get them going.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I trust you understand that I only agree with my posts "up to a point"; there's no advantage in understating one's argument.

I suppose the problem I have is that, as far as I can see, the understandable lack of promotion of British culture in Canadian schools isn't balanced by a promotion of a Canadian, or any other, culture. Canadian culture is defined in the negative, it's simply "not American", and so there's a void. I suggest that "Canadian Idol" stands as the exemplar of things Canadian. American Idol is a massively successful American show based on a British one and it's widely watched in Canada. Canadian Idol is a lame local variation produced to comply with local legislation. It's like the American show but not so slick, sort of the Edmonton Oilers of TV shows. Canadians don't know who's on Canadian Idol and who wins doesn't much matter.

A move from being British to being Canadian seems to me to be a move from being at the heart of English based culture to being on the far fringe. On the other hand, to promote appreciation for the "old country" in one's children risks alienating them from their environment. That leads to them wanting to take their masters in Europe and send you the bill.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Unfortunately British children are learning less and less history these days. They also have much less exposure to Shakespeare and the classics. I wonder how much the average British child knows of the country's cultural past?

Any views?

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

And how many of them actually care!!

Will the youth of today mellow in their aged years and start to enjoy all that heritage on their doorstep or will these ornate buildings be transformed into discount shopping outlets and mega rave venues. :eek:

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

That's not a choice anyone in Canada has to make.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Of course - deliberate provocativeness is one reason I enjoy your contributions: if I thought you really believed some of the stuff you post I'd be worried for your grip on reality!

Granted, being "not American" is not enough to define a country - though it seems to serve well enough for the media. I agree, too, that CanCon rules do lead to ludicrous nonentities like Canadian Idol (the Edmonton Oilers of TV shows - like it!)

My kids will be quite at liberty to take their Masters in the UK so long as they are bright enough to win a Rhodes Scholarship...

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I find it ironic that so much of Canada tries to define itself by “not American” when to all intent and purpose it is so much like America its hard to tell the two apart..

In my opinion there are just a few subtle visual clues, the flag, the sport on TV and the brand of Coffee drunk… other than that if a stranger was just dropped on a street they would be hard pushed to tell which side of the border they were on

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I think Starbucks dominates the coffee market on both sides of the border. Not sure which sport you have in mind, the big one around here now is baseball and they have that in America too. If you mean ice hockey then I'd say that the NHL is primarily a US league with some weak franchises up here.

We drove back into Canada last weekend after a week in the US, apart from the awful driving here, what we noticed was the Asian population. Outside of San Francisco the US doesn't have such a large proportion of people from China, Korea and so on.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Plenty of views, not many of them repeatable...

I didn't really enjoy history at school (every exercise book had the quote from Henry Ford: "History is Bunk" on the inside front cover) but now wish I'd paid more attention, because it's fascinating! I suppose it's a thoroughly old-fashioned position to take today, but I am really glad, now, that I learned history by being taught dates and battles and kings and stuff (can still recite "Willy, Willy, Harry, Ste; Harry, Dick, John, Harry III...").

The guy who taught me English grammar did so as though he was teaching Latin, as he made us parse every word in a sentence until we understood the precise function of each. English lessons were peppered with spelling and punctuation tests, as well as a critical appreciation of Shakespeare, Milton, Chaucer, Dickens, etc. An element of competition was encouraged in all these things and finishing in the top few percent in the year group was an achievement worthy of public praise and prizes. (And yes, this was at a fee-paying independent school - my place was subsidized by an Army bursary and an academic scholarship).

I despair at the disregard for narrative timelines, dates and facts in the "empathetic" approach to history taught in the UK (well, maybe not Scotland - isn't the system there a bit more rigorous?). I don't expect Canada to be much better, not only because there's not such an obvious and long timeline to set the context for studying Canadian history, but also because I get the feeling the whole curriculum here is based on the same liberal (with a small L) ideology as in the UK.

I hope that I can instill in my children a love of learning - of reading non-fiction, history and biography for pleasure, of wanting to understand how and why as well as what and who - but even if I can't I hope they'll have a good enough grounding in the rudiments that they can come to appreciate "culture" (history, art, literature, however you define it) in their own time.

OMG, re-reading that it sounds really pretentious... don't really know how else to put it, though, I'm surprised how strongly I feel about it now I have children of my own to worry about!

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

No. My partner spent a year at Aberdeen as part of her undergrad history degree. She has no idea of the date of anything but can deliver a Gruaniad worthy extemporaneous lecture on any topic related to feminism, gay rights or the sexuality of the Victorians.

Meanwhile, one of my children actually chose to take Latin. Here, in Canada, so no stereotype holds absolutely.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Same for me.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

PUSH

For us this was OH being made from a high flying position, and as he prepared the practice accounts and knew the cashflow and profits of the practice, was a earth shattering shock.

He felt incredibly let down by the other partners of the firm and it distroyed his confidence. We had had th option of moving to Canada 13 years ago and never got around to it due to wedding and kids coming pretty quickly in succession.

Long commutes for Phil - out at 6.30am to start at 9am and then left at 5pm usually home between 7 - 730pm.

Materialistic soceity that the uk has become.
The way our country is run.
Working to survive.

PULL

A complete change of lifestyle.
Being appreciated
Respect - of yourself and other peoples property
Job offer
Being near to family and friends who I have always missed since they went to there nearly 30 years ago.
More Space
More family time.
Less stressful workplace.

Gaynor
x

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I see a few of you have mentioned open spaces as a main motivator

The statistics boggle the mind when you compare the two countries.

London alone has a population density of almost 5,000 people per square km.

Perhaps that will become more and more of a "push" factor as the years go by, as the sheer competition for decent living space increases. :huh:

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

I think that's a bit silly. Canada largely consists of uninhabited tundra, the people live in apartments or on postage stamp lots in houses squished against the US border. There's no equivalent of the right to roam so, if you want to touch the grass you have to buy it. The average resident of the GTA has no more space than the average council house dweller in the UK.

It's true that one can fly over lots of empty space but one may as well say that people in the UK have lots of empty ocean to enjoy.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Sorry not to reply sooner - I have been out with my daughter at a rare breeds farm park, so you could say we have been doing a bit of history (at a push).

Yes, I do see that the children of immigrants would have less knowledge and understanding and even interest in their roots, although from what I understand of immigrant groups in GB (specifically those with a strong religious belief) the 'mother' culture is never given up but integrated into the larger society. However, as Oakvillain has pointed out, children and young adults here have little or no idea of the history and culture of Britain so unless I teach my daughter about these things she won't learn them anyway. (As an aside, I am still flabberghasted at the remedial reading and writing lessons our universities now have to put on for first year students).

I want to come to Canada even more now you've described it as a country of immigrants and red-necks, and the bucket riding is a definite extra pull.

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

If that counts as history then I guess Fort Cody does too (see blog), the two headed cow is certainly a rare beast.

I understand that the youth of today have gone to the dogs as my niece is a banged teen on the dole. Nonetheless I don't think you have any idea how much history and culture is absorbed by accident; children growing up in the UK cannot help but have an idea what a castle is or that the country has been repeatedly invaded. They will necessarily hear English spoken well. It's the background gained outside formal education that is lost when abroad. For example, two of my daughters have a good grasp of English as tested academically (100% scored on the SAT language paper) but they don't know any words related to things that don't exist now; florins, Tudors, battlements, yards, bustles mean nothing to them. I suppose a place with no past is good for someone wanting a new start but I do feel a bit as if coming here was like joining the Légion étrangère.

Just don't tell the liability insurer that we ride in the bucket; there are all sorts of labels warning against it. Just like the one that says "this convertible top is not intended to provide roll over protection".

Re: Motivations for emigration
 

Today I obtained a quote for renting a tractor-loader-excavator not dissimilar to yours but with a backhoe for diggin' 'oles. It was eyewateringly expensive. I need it for May 24th weekend so I reckon if you started now you'd be able to bring you tractor to to Newfoundland in time. There's a bottle of London Pride in it for you.:rofl: Do you have the backhoe attachement?