Mortgage free living - Discuss
Aug 6th 2008, 12:39 pm
#61
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Thats my point exactly! You seem to be keen to drop numbers that are irrelevant to the thread. No one called you a spoiled brat. The content of your thread doesn't help in dispelling the notion that your a spoiled brat. Maybe forget the number dropping in subsequent threads, it may help with others impressions of you.
Best of luck with your upcoming adventure.
Best of luck with your upcoming adventure.
What's that got to do with the price of fish?!? My father is very wealthy. I'm not. There's no chance he'd bail me out in any situation.
Again, some **** jumping to conclusions. For your information, even as a teenager with a very wealthy father, I worked two jobs to pay for my own driving lessons, clothes, etc. I've never had a penny from him. Something I hated and resented when I was younger, but which I am very grateful for now and doing the same with my children.
You assume I'm some spoilt brat but nothing could be further from the truth. Some people on this forum seem determined to jump to incorrect conclusions just for the chance to put others down, what is wrong with you all???
Again, some **** jumping to conclusions. For your information, even as a teenager with a very wealthy father, I worked two jobs to pay for my own driving lessons, clothes, etc. I've never had a penny from him. Something I hated and resented when I was younger, but which I am very grateful for now and doing the same with my children.
You assume I'm some spoilt brat but nothing could be further from the truth. Some people on this forum seem determined to jump to incorrect conclusions just for the chance to put others down, what is wrong with you all???
Aug 6th 2008, 12:52 pm
#62
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
I don't see how any of them are not relevant? I only mentioned what my father charges as a financial consultant to illustrate how highly sought after he is, and how his financial acumen is worth listening to. He thinks we're doing the best thing financially so I'm certainly going to listen to him rather than somebody else on here that doesn't know the full story but is determined to call me an idiot for doing it anyway.
You may not have actually called me a spoiled brat, but you certainly implied it. And as somebody that has been working blooming hard since she was 14 years old, and has never been given anything, I find that insulting. I'm also at a loss as to what I've said that 'doesn't help in dispelling the notion' that I'm a spoiled brat?!? The fact that myself and my husband have worked incredibly hard for years and own a nice house because of it? Or the fact that it's increased in value by a substantial amount - solely due to the market?? How does any of that imply I'm a spoiled brat - or is that some newfangled way of saying hard worker that I've missed?!?
You may not have actually called me a spoiled brat, but you certainly implied it. And as somebody that has been working blooming hard since she was 14 years old, and has never been given anything, I find that insulting. I'm also at a loss as to what I've said that 'doesn't help in dispelling the notion' that I'm a spoiled brat?!? The fact that myself and my husband have worked incredibly hard for years and own a nice house because of it? Or the fact that it's increased in value by a substantial amount - solely due to the market?? How does any of that imply I'm a spoiled brat - or is that some newfangled way of saying hard worker that I've missed?!?
Last edited by christmasoompa; Aug 6th 2008 at 12:56 pm.
Aug 6th 2008, 12:56 pm
#63
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,152
Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
What's that got to do with the price of fish?!? My father is very wealthy. I'm not. There's no chance he'd bail me out in any situation.
Again, some **** jumping to conclusions. For your information, even as a teenager with a very wealthy father, I worked two jobs to pay for my own driving lessons, clothes, etc. I've never had a penny from him. Something I hated and resented when I was younger, but which I am very grateful for now and doing the same with my children.
You assume I'm some spoilt brat but nothing could be further from the truth. Some people on this forum seem determined to jump to incorrect conclusions just for the chance to put others down, what is wrong with you all???
Again, some **** jumping to conclusions. For your information, even as a teenager with a very wealthy father, I worked two jobs to pay for my own driving lessons, clothes, etc. I've never had a penny from him. Something I hated and resented when I was younger, but which I am very grateful for now and doing the same with my children.
You assume I'm some spoilt brat but nothing could be further from the truth. Some people on this forum seem determined to jump to incorrect conclusions just for the chance to put others down, what is wrong with you all???
I don't think you're insane Christmasoompa (well, maybe a tad for giving up what you have to freeze your rear end off for five months of the year) but you are going into way too much detail to justify your reasons for what you are doing. I'd never do that with this lot because it's just an opportunity for it to be picked to pieces!
No offence fellow forumites
Last edited by stepnek; Aug 6th 2008 at 12:58 pm.
Aug 6th 2008, 1:03 pm
#64
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
And as it happens, I hate hot weather so actually the Canadian climate wil probably suit me very well - bring on the 5 months of freezing I say!!
Edited to add: apologies to the OP, this has gone completely off topic!!
Aug 6th 2008, 1:07 pm
#65
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Actually I think the reason for people knocking you is that you've implied that your being forced to go to Canada against your will and that you'd much rather stay in England. That may be completely right for you, but many people on here have waited years to have their dreams fulfilled. I suspect that may be why people are being anti. After all, it is an immigration website which by default will have people on it wanting to emmigrate! Not to go and come back.
Aug 6th 2008, 1:10 pm
#66
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Mmmmm.....possibly. Forgive me, but I felt obliged to 'fight back' to correct the ridiculous assumptions some had made, and also to justify our decision (lord knows why I felt I should have to do that but hey!) When somebody calls you 'insane' and questions your financial decisions you do feel obligated to prove them wrong somehow!! And the only way to do that was to give them figures.
And as it happens, I hate hot weather so actually the Canadian climate wil probably suit me very well - bring on the 5 months of freezing I say!!
Edited to add: apologies to the OP, this has gone completely off topic!!
And as it happens, I hate hot weather so actually the Canadian climate wil probably suit me very well - bring on the 5 months of freezing I say!!
Edited to add: apologies to the OP, this has gone completely off topic!!
Aug 6th 2008, 1:15 pm
#67
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Mmmmm.....possibly. Forgive me, but I felt obliged to 'fight back' to correct the ridiculous assumptions some had made, and also to justify our decision (lord knows why I felt I should have to do that but hey!) When somebody calls you 'insane' and questions your financial decisions you do feel obligated to prove them wrong somehow!! And the only way to do that was to give them figures.
And as it happens, I hate hot weather so actually the Canadian climate wil probably suit me very well - bring on the 5 months of freezing I say!!
Edited to add: apologies to the OP, this has gone completely off topic!!
And as it happens, I hate hot weather so actually the Canadian climate wil probably suit me very well - bring on the 5 months of freezing I say!!
Edited to add: apologies to the OP, this has gone completely off topic!!
The trouble with Canada is it's exceptionally cold during the winter and then exceptionally warm during the summer so...
Have a great move!
Aug 6th 2008, 1:18 pm
#68
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Actually I think the reason for people knocking you is that you've implied that your being forced to go to Canada against your will and that you'd much rather stay in England. That may be completely right for you, but many people on here have waited years to have their dreams fulfilled. I suspect that may be why people are being anti. After all, it is an immigration website which by default will have people on it wanting to emmigrate! Not to go and come back.
There are also several others on this forum that are also going out to Canada to fulfil a requirement for their current company but who are intending on returning to their lives here within a few years. I'm not the only one. Surely you must have come across people in your life who have worked abroad?? Whether it's in Saudi Arabia, the US or Canada, there are thousands that do it, it doesn't make us bad people or not entitled to join forums like this!
Aug 6th 2008, 1:20 pm
#70
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
There was talk of hubby being sent to work in Texas and that would have REALLY freaked me out!!
Aug 6th 2008, 1:20 pm
#71
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Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
I will confess to not having waded through all the previous posts, but here is my take.
Its too easy to look at this from a UK perspective, where most peoples mortgage are a lot higher and more of a burden than here in Canada due to average property prices being a lot more expensive relative to wages.
My net income (and expenses
) for a family of 4 is about $4k a month (fairly middle of the pack in Canadian terms), and only $600 of that is mortgage payment anyway because property costs in my bit of Ontario are relatively low still
Now $600 is not to be trivialised, but its also not the difference between "getting by" and "a life of ease", I work full time in a reasonably well paid job. Saving that $600 on the mortgage is not going to be enough to work part time, because all those other costs will still be there
$300 Heating oil
$120 Hydro
$300 Car House and Life Insurance
$200 Property Tax
$800 Groceries
$150 Gasoline
$100 Phone and TV
That's $2k before all the other miscellaneous stuff that ends up on the MasterCard every month, and the need to plan to save for retirement at least, and if you have kids for further education costs. And its not taking into account that you will have occasional major lump sum expenses..New roof $5-10k every 15-20 years, New Car as the old one rusted away every 10-15 years, etc etc.
So most people are going to need at least $40k a year gross income, and probably nearer $50k, even without a mortgage.
Its too easy to look at this from a UK perspective, where most peoples mortgage are a lot higher and more of a burden than here in Canada due to average property prices being a lot more expensive relative to wages.
My net income (and expenses
) for a family of 4 is about $4k a month (fairly middle of the pack in Canadian terms), and only $600 of that is mortgage payment anyway because property costs in my bit of Ontario are relatively low stillNow $600 is not to be trivialised, but its also not the difference between "getting by" and "a life of ease", I work full time in a reasonably well paid job. Saving that $600 on the mortgage is not going to be enough to work part time, because all those other costs will still be there
$300 Heating oil
$120 Hydro
$300 Car House and Life Insurance
$200 Property Tax
$800 Groceries
$150 Gasoline
$100 Phone and TV
That's $2k before all the other miscellaneous stuff that ends up on the MasterCard every month, and the need to plan to save for retirement at least, and if you have kids for further education costs. And its not taking into account that you will have occasional major lump sum expenses..New roof $5-10k every 15-20 years, New Car as the old one rusted away every 10-15 years, etc etc.
So most people are going to need at least $40k a year gross income, and probably nearer $50k, even without a mortgage.
Last edited by iaink; Aug 6th 2008 at 1:35 pm.
Aug 6th 2008, 1:29 pm
#72
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,144
Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
No offence taken, although I think you're insane if you think you know more about what is good for us than we do after careful consideration!!
Firstly, I don't think it will lose anywhere near that amount of money. Houses are still selling quickly where we are and for good money, some in our village have recently gone for over the asking price after getting into a bidding war. I also think that next summer will be the low for the housing market in the UK (and I work in property, relocation agent) and that's when prices will bottom out, so we'll only have a few months of potentially losing money on it anyway.
And secondly, you're not taking into account rental money in your figures - we'll rent it for approx £3k pcm so over a 2 year period that's £72k. Our mortgage is only £1200 a month, so we'll be making approx £1800 a month on renting it. Even taking off things like tax on that income (although hopefully wouldn't be much as we'll do it my name and I won't be earning, and after offsetting everything possible etc), that should still more than balance out any downturn in value.
I have taken advice on it from the best financial advisor I know - my father!! He's an absolute whizz at financial matters (has just been offered the job of managing the budget for the London Olympics to show you how highly he is thought of in London financial circles - he did turn it down though!!) and earns £400k a year, as a consultant, for his financial opinion. He predicted the last stock market downturn and took over £1M of stocks and shares and converted them to cash. Etc, etc. Basically, he's a financial genius and we've discussed it all with him. He agrees we are doing the right thing.
And finally, I have to say that another big reason for us choosing to keep the house is that we have no intention of staying in Canada forever, and simply want to be able to come back to the same house, in the same village, which we love. Houses here don't come up for sale very often so we may not be able to move back here if we don't already own one, and I don't want to take that chance. And for our childrens sake, we want to move back somewhere familiar. That will be something we can't put a value on.
Hope the above reasons have clarified things for you and you no long think I'm 'insane'.
Firstly, I don't think it will lose anywhere near that amount of money. Houses are still selling quickly where we are and for good money, some in our village have recently gone for over the asking price after getting into a bidding war. I also think that next summer will be the low for the housing market in the UK (and I work in property, relocation agent) and that's when prices will bottom out, so we'll only have a few months of potentially losing money on it anyway.
And secondly, you're not taking into account rental money in your figures - we'll rent it for approx £3k pcm so over a 2 year period that's £72k. Our mortgage is only £1200 a month, so we'll be making approx £1800 a month on renting it. Even taking off things like tax on that income (although hopefully wouldn't be much as we'll do it my name and I won't be earning, and after offsetting everything possible etc), that should still more than balance out any downturn in value.
I have taken advice on it from the best financial advisor I know - my father!! He's an absolute whizz at financial matters (has just been offered the job of managing the budget for the London Olympics to show you how highly he is thought of in London financial circles - he did turn it down though!!) and earns £400k a year, as a consultant, for his financial opinion. He predicted the last stock market downturn and took over £1M of stocks and shares and converted them to cash. Etc, etc. Basically, he's a financial genius and we've discussed it all with him. He agrees we are doing the right thing.
And finally, I have to say that another big reason for us choosing to keep the house is that we have no intention of staying in Canada forever, and simply want to be able to come back to the same house, in the same village, which we love. Houses here don't come up for sale very often so we may not be able to move back here if we don't already own one, and I don't want to take that chance. And for our childrens sake, we want to move back somewhere familiar. That will be something we can't put a value on.
Hope the above reasons have clarified things for you and you no long think I'm 'insane'.
Rent your house because you like it and want to keep hold of it (there's nothing wrong with that) but accept that you will probably reduce your net worth over the next few years.
Aug 6th 2008, 1:36 pm
#73
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Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
If he ends up damaging the enviroment in the course of making a living I will disdain him too. Perhaps he'll take a contract open pit mining in the Home Counties.
Aug 6th 2008, 1:41 pm
#74
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Aug 6th 2008, 1:46 pm
#75
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 285
Re: Mortgage free living - Discuss
Just to throw something out there and maybe get back to mortgages and possibly berated in the process. It is nice to be mortgage free on our primary residence that is for sure. The security of owning our property outright fore fills one of our basic human needs that of shelter. We get to thinking about the payment to the mortgage lender as a burden on our lives that we could live without.
But, without borrowing money we cannot pay it back and this deteriorates our track record of fiscal responsibility. Strangely, the more that we borrow and pay back (assuming that the payments are always on time or early and never late) the more that we will be able to borrow because we have this track record. Looking at this in a different way, we can use the equity that we have to invest in a revenue generating property rather then in our primary residence.
If you are prudent enough to invest in a property that is going to generate income, pay the mortgage, bills, taxes etc. then you are using the banks money to make you money. This is where a mortgage is a good thing and not the burden that we all think that it is. At the other end of the scale, Donald Trump builds wealth by doing just this. He normally invests to a maximum of 15% of any project and finances the rest. He makes money with money that he borrows and he seems to be doing ok.
Obviously you need to do your homework and a lot of research to buy wisely in the first place.
Just a thought
But, without borrowing money we cannot pay it back and this deteriorates our track record of fiscal responsibility. Strangely, the more that we borrow and pay back (assuming that the payments are always on time or early and never late) the more that we will be able to borrow because we have this track record. Looking at this in a different way, we can use the equity that we have to invest in a revenue generating property rather then in our primary residence.
If you are prudent enough to invest in a property that is going to generate income, pay the mortgage, bills, taxes etc. then you are using the banks money to make you money. This is where a mortgage is a good thing and not the burden that we all think that it is. At the other end of the scale, Donald Trump builds wealth by doing just this. He normally invests to a maximum of 15% of any project and finances the rest. He makes money with money that he borrows and he seems to be doing ok.
Obviously you need to do your homework and a lot of research to buy wisely in the first place.
Just a thought