Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Hello,

We are on the verge of deciding which location we choose to migrate to and later on decide on citizenship ....

I am an Oilfield Engineering Professional and my wife is an IT SAP ABAP professional.
I have read the Canada vs Australia article.....

I would love to have more inputs on this issue:

My decision will be based on
1. Job opportunities and Pay packages.
2. Health Care (I have read that healthcare is bad compared to the US and a patient would have to wait for months before a critical diagnosis is made .... Also Canada has only 1 insurance company and they decide what issues are insured or not.)
3. Education (Child is 3 yrs old)...How is the education quality and are the schools safe.
4. Crime Rate
5. Racism...
6. Employee rights/facilities
7. Annual leave ...(heard that Canada has just 10 - 15 days of annual leave while Auz has 4 week annual leave)
8. Cost of living
9. Government help on jobs or social welfare

Your comments and guidance will be deeply appreciated.

Kind Regards

HP

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Dont believe half of what you see about healthcare here, the US healthcare debate has resulted in a lot of lies and misinformation. Each province has its own provincial program that coveres the basic (similar to NHS), then there is employer provided health care insurance that covers drug costs, dental etc etc., there is no canada wide one insurance company. Which bit of the US are you comparing too, the gilt edged corporate insured no expense spared bit, or the bottom of the pile cant afford any insurance underbelly? At least everyone in Canada has access to care and is treated based on clinical need, not wallet size.


What is the oil job situation in Australia? Canada obviously has large oil operations in Alberta and off the East coast.

How do you feel about heat vs cold?

How do you feel about the pom bashing and sporting friction between Brits and Australians? There is virtually nothing like that in Canada.

Werent most of your points covered by the wiki article?

Schooling is in general fine in Canada, although its a big place and there is some local variation. Crime again, depends where you go. In my rural area there is very little. In an inner city area, its what you probably expect.

Cost of living is broadly similar to the UK, what you lose in some areas of life you gain in others. There is some government social safety net, but its set pretty low to the bottom. Not a great welfare state, but better than the US.

Oz and Canada are so different you have to decide based on what you are looking for, not what you are trying to escape.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

First of all, why do you want to migrate?

On the jobs front, you should be aware of a couple of things. Canadian employers are reluctant to hire workers who lack "Canadian experience". Canadian licencing bodies can be averse to recognizing foreign credentials. These are longstanding issues that create problems for many immigrants. The oil industry in Canada suffers from boom/bust cycles; I don't know what part of the cycle is dominant right now, though.

You might find that IT jobs aren't in the same place as oilfield jobs - it's a very large country with a small population.

Unless the two of you are absolutely, positively sure you have good jobs lined up, I wouldn't consider moving to Canada unless you have very, very strong reasons to leave where you're now living.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Canada is way too crowded, I'd go to Australia.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

australia is full of snakes and spiders. i'd go to canada.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

...and they're just the people, wait until you see the wildlife. :sneaky::eek::p

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Didn't we do this thread already?;)

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

i know, but i do not have the energy, time or mental capacity at the moment to get into BC paramedic/death penalty/incarceration threads so i went for a one liner then i'll bugger off to work.

by the way, according to other threads elsewhere, aussies like it in the tradesmans a lot apparently, may just swing it for you.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

That thread has gone a bit random hasn't it. Discussing debtors prisons now with AC...

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

yep, 'tis the way of expats though, later.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Australia has massive natural gas operations all over the place, and I'm sure there are large oilfield operations in Qld, but you'd need to look into it. Canada of course has large oilfield operations going on in the west.

Canada's healthcare system is broadly similar to the NHS, and I have read it supplied very good quality care but there can be waiting lists. The Australian system I have found to be excellent as well - it is a little more private/public in its set up but coming from Britain you would be eligible for reciprocal healthcare on Medicare. We have used this without charge and also found that the care so far has been good and without any waiting lists. In Australia you can walk into pretty much any doctor's surgery you like & do not have to register with a specific doctor. You can choose private insurance for extras like dental and so on.

I can't speak for education in either country - sorry - over to others who know. I can say the schoolchildren you see here in public (trains, etc) are pretty well behaved in general, giving up seats for elderly on trains is something I see all the time, but I am sure it's the same in Canada. Crime - without resorting to tedious stats I am sure you couldn't get a cigarette paper between the two countries on this. Racism?? Don't know about racist crimes but Canada seems to be more PC than Australia, for better or worse depending on your viewpoint

Employee rights - Australia is quite heavily unionsed for one thing, and Labor recently took Work Choices apart which was good news for people working in small companies in particular. From this website I would say it is much harder to get work in Canad because of the sinister "network" I read so much about. Also Canada has a problem with recognising overseas quals but I don't think you'll find this problem in Australia at all. Statutory annual leave in Canada is 10 days and in Australia it is 20 days.

As for cost of living - Australia has been screwed by outrageous property prices in the same way British society was ruined by them. Excluding the West, Canada seems to have escaped this misery, and as a result I guess Canada is for the most part a cheaper place to live. Tax in Australia seems pretty reasonable to me though.

Finally, something you don't mention in your list - the weather. Both countries have extreme weather conditions than some people cannot take to. There are parts of Canada that are cold like you wouldn't believe with temps like -50 at times, although -20 something would be more normal I suppose. More than that is the duration - winter comes in early and snowfall can continue for six months. In Australia it can get very hot indeed. We recently had a heatwave here with six days of 40, and without a decent aircon you will be very uncomfortable indeed. The heat drains some people, plus you will need to take care in the sun. Having said that, we do go down and swim in the ocean every evening to get cool, so that's a good side effect.

This is as comprehensive an answer as I could supply, and my knowledge as you can see is limited. If I were you and I would find out if you are eligible for visas to either of these countries, because neither are easy places to get into.

All the best and good luck.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Groceries are quite expensive in Australia.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I find them to be the same as the UK for the main. Bread is much more expensive for some reason, but meat is significantly cheaper. Veggies about the same. Beer and wine more expensive in bottle shops and supermarkets but about the same in restaurants and bars.

The problem with Australia is that two supermarkets have 80% share of the market, whereas in the UK there are five supermarkets that have 65% share of the market. There is nowhere near enough competition in the Australian supermarket sector, but there are moves to address this in the shape of a co-op that they're trying to put together with farmers. Because nearly all food sold in Australia is produced in Australia, this could wield some power, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

And there are plenty of parts of Canada that don't.

It's not uncommon for central southern BC to experience 40 degree days and 35+ is a regular feature of summer. No humidity to deal with here, which makes the heat bearable.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I think "plenty" is an exaggeration when you mean "southern BC and VI" - and even then you're looking at a lot of rainfall, which might not be an incentive to move if you hate British weather.

I recall a 40+ day in Vancouver once and it felt very hot. The humidity in Vancouver in the summer is much higher than the humidity in southern Australia which is amongst the lowest in the world. Still, it's a good summer in BC, I would agree, but for me personally not worth the rain in the winter, which is higher than London.

The average summer temp in Vancouver is significantly lower than in the southern Australian cities but this is because those cities would be approximately in line with LA if they were in the northern hemisphere, and their weather is much more similar to LA or San Diego than Vancouver for that reason. Comparing BC to Australia is as ridiculous as comparing Vancouver to LA and expecting parity, especially when one considers that LA is not as hot as Perth or Adelaide. Whereas the average Vancouver summer temperature is about 25 or 26, it's much higher in Australia and of course it goes on for much longer. This year the summer started about 10 days ago when temperatures climbed over 40, and this will go on until early March (between 28 and 47).

Going back to my original point, the OP should be aware that the extremes of heat and their durations in these countries is not like anything he/she will have experienced in the UK. There's a town in WA called Marble Bar where in 1924 the temperature was 37 degrees or (significantly) higher for 162 consecutive days.

You don't get that in Croydon.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I don't think they're referring to Vancouver Island or Coastal BC/Vancouver - I think they're referring to the interior of BC (Kamloops) and the Okanagan Valley region (Kelowna, Osoyoos, etc.), which is not only frequently 30-40 degrees in the summer, but very, very arid year round. It's a completely different climate than coastal BC. In fact, Osoyoos (only a 5 hour drive east of Vancouver) is technically desert. Very similar to Southern California and South Australia in climate.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Even with the inclusion of these regions we are still talking about a small percentage of inhabited Canada. The vast majority of it has extremely cold and long winters. As for Osoyoos, etc., regular highs there in the summer are more like 38 and the average summer temp is 30. 30 degrees in most parts of Australia is a cool day - trust me I'm having one today - and a high of 48 last year is expected to get broken this year. This is because Osoyoos is on the same latitude as France and Germany and South Australia is on the same latitude as Morocco or Saudi Arabia.

Also, remember that we are comparing an inland area of BC with coastal Australia. Inland South Australia has officially reached just a shade under 51 degrees, and Queensland has gone to 53.

When I made my point to the OP about extremes I really wanted to convey that both countries will provide a challenge. I didn't want it to turn into a dick-measuring contest about temperatures - even one as ridiculous as people trying to compare a British Columbian summer with that of the Australian outback. I could hav emadethe point that Australia also sees temperatures as cold as much of Canada, including a -23 measured in 1994 in NSW. But I didn't because like I said - this isn't a contest, although someone upthread kind of made it one I guess.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Seems like a good reason not to live there.

I think some geography and climatology lessons might be in order.

Morocco 33°N

Saudi Arabia 21-26°N

Australia approx 12 - 35°S
Different hemispheres!


55°N London, Dawson Creek BC, Grand Prairie AB, quite different climates.
Latitude is only a part of the climate of a region.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Okay I have to know...where did you read this? Cos that's some pretty funny shizz right there. :rofl:

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I've never been to OZ, never liked Ozzies - put me off - silly I know, but i once worked with 4 of them and little old me for about 3 months- drove me nuts.

I think I would prefer the sunshine to Vancouver's winters, which I agree are crap, at least for about 75 - 80 percent of the time. The trade off, I hear, is skiing. Not sure if I would be able to handle the extreme heat though.

I think the weather is one of those personal things that mean more to some than others. I lived in Miami and quite frankly the sun etc becomes part of the background and was n't a consideration at all in moving.

To me the downside to OZ is that's in the middle of nowhere. This, like the weather is a personal thing.

I think cost of living and standard of living wise there ain't much in it. Comes down to heat vs cold ..... and isolation as someone has already pointed out.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Hi dboy

Yes the heat can be draining at first but like you say it becomes part of the background in a way that extreme cold just cannot. When it gets really hot you slow down and relax, sit outside in the shade with a cold drink and a good book, wait for the sun to cool and go swimming. In my experience I have found this easier to deal with than long cold winters, and I think this is the majority view, expecially among older people (not me) because there isn't a universal desire all round the world to retire to the snow. Weeks of 28-32 degrees and really low humidity are the classic Mediterranean climate and it's really very pleasant - I can't complain. This morning we were at about 30 but now we're overcast and 38 and it's not too bad - but only because it was hotter last week and I've acclimatised. Not too long ago it dropped to 22 and I was quite put-out! So you do get used to it. I recall going back to London one February and it was 3 or 4 degrees - very early in the morning, and my word that felt so cold.

But I stress I am not saying this as a kind of hidden dig at Canada, as it must invariably be taken by those of a certain disposition. I like Canada a lot and consider it to be a great place to live, especially as a younger person (not sure about the retirement aspect - quite a few on here seem to be going back to UK to retire because of the winters). I think very highly of Vancouver and the Island and the people I met there.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Don't think I could hack the extreme cold either. A lot of Canadians migrate in the winter months to phoenix and what have you. Best place i'v experienced weather wise is San Diego - its the least variable climate in the world.

8 months here varies between great, nice and alright - the other 4 is wet and dreary. I try to get away during this time to break it up. It's manageable for the most part, but does get to you at times.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

My post made no such comparisons, nor did it imply any, and having lived in outback Australia it wouldn't make sense to. I merely stated that there are areas of Canada that do offer reliable hot, dry summers without extreme winter temperatures too.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

In Vancouver you're in the perfect place to snowbird down to SD anyway - and the SoCal climate is very nice and dry like here. That's another great thing about Canada - the proximity to all those US cities and sights. For me it's a six hour flight to Singapore and man oh man do they screw you on airfares down here.

Also, we should all remember how lucky we all are to be talking like this - a lot of people just do not have these opportunities. If I got Australian citizenship I would have the right to settle in 29 countries - how amazing is that? (EU nations + Aus & NZ). I've always fancied living in certain parts of Italy as well and would love to give that a try before the final curtain.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

OK - I'm an Australian who moved to Canada as a PR two years ago so I can give you an Ozzie perspective.

Medical - Canada all public versus Aus 2 Tier - overall you will pay more for medical treatment in Australia but you also get better treatment. Not a make or break decision regardless IMHO.

Education - no kids so can't comment other then to say that University seems to be much cheaper in Australia (HECS system is very good) than over here.

Jobs - I moved from Sydney to Vancouver as an accounting professional and couldn't find any decent jobs until I moved to Calgary (more head offices, I'd assume I would have found a good job in Toronto easily enough too).

It is really pointless comparing Canada vs Australia overall on this front - you will be better off researching into the exact cities you are interested in moving to for a more relevant comparison as both countries are too diverse. Perth is of course Australia's rough equivalent to Alberta for oil work, Sydney/Melbourne versus Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver for IT??

Australian economy looks stronger than Canada give we've already started lifting interst rates.

I personally didn't find any of the 'canadian experience' issues often thrown about and have far more leave here than I did in Australia - but I think that is the exception of the rule.

Culture - not much cricket here in Canada! Australia is more 'commonwealth' oriented, Canada definately US dominated.

Weather - huge difference obviously but having survived my first Calgary winter last year, nothing you couldn't adapt to either way.

Cost of Living - overall Calgary for us blows away (in positive sense) any big Australian city in terms of wages versus basic living costs, but again it will depend on your own job and family situation.

In all honesty they are similar countries with good standards of living - I'd just go for whichever one catches your fancy more. Never underestimate the fun factor!

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I think this is a very balanced post and people should pay particular attention to the very last sentence!!

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

See, I found the opposite. I could not hack the heat at all, or the sun which is very strong in Australia. I prefer the climate here (Vancouver).

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

I can imagine being a Brit in Oz would be irritating, having that rubbed in your face on a daily basis - whereas here people couldn't give a flying f**k that you're British, Italian, Dutch or whatever....

I considered Oz as well as Canada - satisfied now that I made the right choice....

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Just absolutely does not happen. Along with "there's lots of snakes and spiders" this ranks as one of the most "out of touch with reality" reasons not to go to Australia.

I'm sure it happens to some Brits, but then it happens in Canada as well - I can recall more than one thread that had stories of anti-British and anti-immigrant comments made by Canadians.

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So there's not lots of snakes and spiders then? :sneaky:

Playing devil's advocate here, since I've seen far more snakes in Canada than I ever saw in the UK - in fact, don't ever recall seeing a wild one in the UK, seen about a dozen wild ones here in a year....

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Not down your local suburb no. It's as absurd as someone saying I'm not moving to Canada because of the bears. Which by the way kill loads more people every year than spiders, snakes and sharks put together in Aus.

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Mate of mine lives in a Sydney suburb, he's found redbacks and funnel webs in his garden so far....

Not seen many bears in my garden yet - though others on here have.

Re: Migrate to Canada or Australia
 

Natch, one expects such a response, and now I reply with how I saw a bear walking through a Canadian suburb on TV once.

The bottom line you are not going to come into contact with these things unless you're on their turf, or very unlucky. Bears kill more people in Canada than sharks do in Australia, yet the shark holds more fear for people because it is scary whereas bears also come made of polyster and live in the ends of beds all round the world.

None of these prejudices (death by spider, pom-bashing, savaged by bear) should be used as a reason not to move to Aus or Can - that's all I'm saying, yet people really do say it.

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Those things wouldn't put me off - the main thing for me now is the Ozzies I've dealt with at work or run into here have been the most self righteous, pompous, pedantic, irritating idiots I've ever had the misfortune to deal with.

Not to say that all are like that of course, but has been enough to put me off!

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You people have started comparing the weather and animals in Canada/Aus, but I'm not sure if those two are even of any concern to the OP in deciding where to emigrate to! :rofl:

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H&T, I think you must mix in very polite society - Aussies enjoy ribbing Poms, and expect some level of defence of your home land. Stand up for yourself and the ribbing stops. It's just their competitive nature and maybe a degree of wanting to prove their independence and success without needing the support of the Commonwealth mother-ship. It's not necessarily vindictive or nasty, just a little test of character.

Conversely, as G77 indicates, ethnicity, background, race or whatever appears to be far less of an issue or discussion point here that invokes much degree of banter or ribbing. Perhaps it's the comparative lack of direct sporting rivalries between the UK and Canada, compared to Australia.

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Given pretty much all of Australian 'ribbing' of others (including themselves) revolves around sporting results I'd have thought anyone from the UK would be pretty safe just at the moment given this year's Ashes results!

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I don't kow how you can make the statement that ethnicity is less of an issue in Canada. You are happy to say that it's fine in middle class Australia but probably a problem in terms of the lower orders, so to speak, but are unable to make this generalisation with Canada, which I find odd. In my street alone there are British, NZs, two Canadian families, Filippinos and Greeks and everyone gets along just fine. No one has had "defend" anything outside of the most consciously harmless jokes about the appaling British weather and the cricket (whihc I happen to agree with).

I have said it so many times, and here it goes again. There is no such thing as an Australian or Greek or Black or White person. There are just people - and they come in two kinds - decent and arseholes - wherever you are on the planet.

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I think you are willfully missing the point that the sporting clashes between Aus and England at cricket, rugby, footy etc fuel the more bombastic element.

Canada rarely if ever plays british teams at anything (Curling?), so there is no fuel for the fire.

Yes, we get the occasional mild comment about accents, weather, etc, but there is never anything to focus the comments, unlike say the ashes or a series of rugby tests.

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I think maybe those that do not live in Australia have a rather prejudiced view of what goes on, I guess. I watched a lot of the coverage of the recent Ashes and there was mututal respect and a lot of the kind of light-hearted jokes you get between brothers. Like I said, I can't speak for the trash element of society, but my own view is that this level is a nasty inward-looking racist nightmare wherever you are in the world.

Upon hearing my accent all I ever get is interest in where I am from, usually followed by lots of information about how they went to Northampton once and have an Aunt in Kent. There will be people who have been given a very nasty time for being English, but this wasn't done by Australians, it was done by racists.

I have noticed that many English people have a real prejudiced view of Australians, and I believe they are deeply insecure when it comes to Australians for some bizarre reason - may sporting prowess, etc. Actually spend time here and yourealise it's all nonsense.