alexleeson

I just wanted to know if anyone has lived both in Melbourne and Vancouver and if so, which is better?

I am currently in Melbourne on a working visa and although happy here I have an opportunity to go to Vancouver. The salary on offer is about CAD$120k a year for a senior audit manager position.

I have a young family (2 kids age 2 and another 4 months old). My wife doesn't work. I currently live a little outside of Melbourne, have a big house, nice car etc etc. Is it something that I can easily have again in Vancouver on a similar salary?

My current working hours are 9 to 5 - no overtime - is it similar in Vancouver? My wife wouldn't forgive me if I end up moving her across the world and have less time at home.

I guess what is really attracting me to Vancouver is silly, but I just always wanted to live somewhere beautiful and near mountains, but for me family life is number one priority.

Tableland

I can't answer your professional question, but Vancouver is no more beautiful than Melbourne, especially during the winter when it never stops raining. I guess you could argue you have relatively easy access to the Rockies, or maybe closer attractions like Grouse Mountain, etc. I prefer smaller Victoria and the rest of the island, which really is beautiful in every sense of the word, but that's just me.

SarahBC

Hi there,

In my opinion, that is an excellent salary level for BC.

Everyone will point out the high house prices of the greater Vancouver area. Most mortgage companies in BC will allow you to have no more than 32% of your income as mortgage payment, so that will dictate where & what you buy. (Doesn't matter though if you are arriving with equity!)

From what I've read on these forums, work/life balance in Canada is similar to Australia - especially since you usually get a lot less paid holiday than in the UK.

Also, important in the GVA is where you live as commuter traffic is horrendous. If you live a long way out, and live in Vancouver, travelling will seriously eat into family time.

As the previous reply noted, Vancouver weather is warm summers and soggy winters. This years winter dragged on for months and the sun has just started coming out - this week! However, last year was much better.

If you are interested in travelling, living in Vancouver will give you lots of cheap travel options including access to the states, and cheap budget flights to the UK.

Vancouver is an interesting city, but it has the problems associated with homelessness and drug abuse (as would any city it's size). There are moves to improve things as the 2010 Olympics are coming here. However, we expected it to better than it is, as we totally swallowed the "Best City in the World" tag that is always associated with Vancouver. I'd describe it as "Birmingham-by-the-Sea" but without the good shopping.

I'll expect a volley of abuse from people who love Vancouver, but I am just offering my opinion.

All the best,

Sarah

JAJ

What chances have you got of getting permanent residence in Melbourne? And what chances have you got of permanent residence in Vancouver?

No point settling somewhere you like if you find out that you cannot stay.

Judy in Calgary

In previewing my post, I see that JAJ and SarahBC have responded while I've been typing my message. There's some overlap between what Sarah and I have said, but also enough difference that I'm going to let my message stand as it is.

The two cities have quite a bit in common. They're both at the ocean, are both multi-cultural, both have lots of great restaurants in all price ranges, both provide lots of opportunities to enjoy the outdoors. Both are brilliant places in many ways.

I would say Melbourne has a few slight advantages over Vancouver. In following your other posts, I see you live in Bacchus Marsh. That makes housing affordable. But if you lived that far out of Vancouver, your commute would be brutal. The juxtaposition of Vancouver's mountains and valleys forces people to funnel out in certain patterns. If you wanted to live in a Bacchus Marsh-like community in the Greater Vancouver Area, you'd be looking at a distant point in the Fraser River Valley, and it would be bumper to bumper on the way to work.

I can't comment on the likely working hours in Vancouver. My husband and son have worked in Vancouver (albeit in different fields from you), and the work pressures on them were greater than you have described.

Something to keep in mind is that it's quite common for Canadian workers to get two weeks' annual leave, although someone in as senior a position as you typically would start with three weeks. Still, I'm guessing you get more than that in Melbourne.

You would take a financial hit from moving yet again (you'd need a lefthand-drive car, appliances that work on 110 volts and so on). But that would not be relevant if your employer was giving you a relocation package that covered those expenses.

If you and your wife have family in the UK, it would be somewhat helpful to live in Canada when your children reach school age. Once you're tied down to taking your holidays during school vacations, it will help that the cousins on different continents are in synch with each other (if that issue is relevant to your family).

I have not lived in Vancouver, and have visited it only as a tourist. However, my husband once commuted between Calgary and Vancouver for about nine months, and we came *this* close to moving there as a family. But something else intervened, and we didn't make that move.

We lived in Melbourne on an expat assignment from July 1997 to January 2000. We loved Melbourne and, if all other things were equal, I would like to be there now. But to put that into context, I should explain that I'm from Southern Africa originally, and Australia felt like home to me (climate, vegetation, cricket and any number of other factors). However, there were several issues -- the opportunities that the oil industry provided to my husband not least amongst them -- that drew us back to Canada.

Now my husband and I are working towards retiring on the British Columbia coast in a few years. We're not sure exactly where we'll retire, but Victoria is a strong contender.

To sum up, I think Melbourne and Vancouver have many similarities. I would vote slightly in favour of Melbourne. My opinion is that, if you are happy there, why move yet again? I don't think you'll be able to match your current lifestyle in Vancouver. Rather stay in Melbourne and go skiing in New Zealand. But with that said, if you don't listen to me and you move to Vancouver after all, I don't think it will be a disaster either.

Judy in Calgary

Hmmm ....... From what we saw when we lived in Melbourne, annual leave in Australia typically was at least double what it is in Canada.

alexleeson

Thanks Judy in Calgary for the post.

I am apprehensive of making another move, and my current employer is going to sponser me for Permanent Residency. I never thought to ask about annual leave - I went from a comfortable 9 weeks a year in Paris to only 4 weeks here in OZ - two weeks only sounds like torture/slavery!



JAJ - I probably have even chances of permanent residency either way.

Tableland

Neuf semaines en Paris - Mon Dieu!

Or is it "a Paris"? My French is a little bit merde.

Londonuck

The big difference is being 9-10 hours away from UK or 22 hours away. Its better than it was but the social scene is lacking in Vancouver.

Tableland

This is written a lot, but does it really make that big a difference? Frankly, anything over 5 hours on a plane is pretty bad, and the flights to Australia are usually broken into two anyway. A night in Singapore en route is a bonus really. You can fly there in a few hours, spend the night, and next day fly on to the UK in not much more than a flight to Vancouver. For business trips with constrained time this could be a drag, but for a couple of weeks on holiday a night out en route is some fun.

Through the eyes of a tourist, Vancouver's social scene seemed pretty good to me, even in the wider context of the mostly highly composed and restrained Canadians! A nice place with lots to do and generally friendly population. Like I said, it's not fair to compare the two as they are very different places, but all said and done I prefer Victoria.

In terms of the original post, I can see the benefits of Vancouver and Melbourne over London, but I'm not quite so sure of the benefits of Vancouver over Melbourne. They seem pretty well-matched to me.

Howard1944

If you can see the top of the mountains in Vancouver, it is going to rain, if you can't, it is raining.

Vancouver is not one of my more favourite cities, but I am an Easterner, but comparing living in Australia to Canada, i have no hesitation in preferring Canada

Australia is too far away from the rest of the world, too hot, too many snakes, and I found the average Australian to be narrow and self centred and really lacking in global vision.

Outside of OZ, they are fun and easy going, put them back on the Rock, they become narrow minded and exhibit sexist attitudes that have not existed for 50 years.

I would not hesitate to extend a work term in Melbourne, but for a long term future, there is no comparison.

Mexico is a days drive away , if you need a winter break, California, even closer.

Vancouver is on the San Andreas Fault line, it could experience an earthquake.

BC is not only Vancouver, beautiful Province, lots of variety.

JAJ

Think about timing as well. Some categories of Canadian immigration have very long waits (ie, years). Australia is normally quicker.

Tableland

It's funny you should say this, because in the early stages of thinking about emigrating, I found the exact opposite to be true in terms of seeking employment. Just about everyone I contacted in Australia got back in touch with me when I contacted them, but the Canadians never bothered. It is my opinion that Canadians (in the workplace) are much too like Americans: they are insular and completely preoccupied with North American culture and working practices, whereas Australia's low population and isolation demands they take a more international view of the world. In addition, Canada's "global vision" doesn't even extend to recognising foreign qualifications.

Moreover, Australians travel everywhere and take a deep interest in visiting foreign nations. There is not a town in Europe that hasn't had Aussie backpackers passing through or working in the local pub. While better in this regard than Americans, Canadians are not the world travellers the Australians have become.

And you talk of "lacking global vision". If you mean sucking up American culture, then I will admit that Canada leads Australia, but in any wider context this statement is a joke. It is Australia that has converted large chunks of its immigration process to internet-based, speeding up the process yet further for applicants, while Canada's "global vision" leaves immigrants in queues from Istanbul to Islamabad for years and years.

I don't think it's a fair statement to declare the average Australian as a fool unaware of the world. The education I got in Australia was really good as a matter of fact.

Howard1944

Australia reminded me of England in the 50's with a sunlamp.

True Aussies will backpack for a year, they have to if they want to see anything, but out of 20,000,000 people, only a few do it.

N.A is settled by people from abroad, so whether it is perceived as American or Canadian, in fact it is north American culture.

We can go to Hawaii or to the Caribbean or to California or to Mexico or to anywhere, and its only a couple of hours by plane, we don't need to travel great distances, we have it here.

Aussies still have this complex about being descended from Convicts, makes them defensive.

Nice place to visit.

Tableland

My first thought is that of the enormous numbers of British convicts that were routinely sent to North America before and during transportation to Australia. Today Australians are no longer worried about their past and neither should they be: Ridiculing Australians because of their past seems to be vaguely rooted in eugenics and is pretty grubby.

My second thought is that your claim that Australians have to travel to see anything is wrong. Australians can go skiing, mountain-climbing, or see mediterranean-style vineyards, tropical beaches, savannah, equatorial forests, bushland or desert without using their passports. Because accessible Canada is roughly on the same latitude, Canadians have a 7000 kms-long strip of pine trees and prairies gradually turning into arctic tundra as you go further north. So to argue that it is Australians that must travel to see things is a bit dishonest - yet they are the greater travellers.

Finally, your claim that all these wonderful (and warm) locations you mention are local and that you "have it here" is slightly preposterous. In fact London is practically the same distance from the Caribbean as is Vancouver. To argue that these places are local to Canada is to clutch at straws. In fact, Brisbane is the same distance from Hawaii as is Toronto - so how is Hawaii "right here" to Canadians?

But I would agree with your compliment that (certain parts of) Australia are like 1950s England with a sunlamp. What a great place to be.