McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Am I the only one who thinks its a bit odd that this mutimillionaire is sticking his nose into about the only thing that keeps many Maritimers financialy afloat? Would he be so keen to end it if it was his livelyhood?

Not sure I buy the government vet study "Oh, its OK, they really are dead, its the swim reflex" argument either though. Sure the seals are cute and fluffy, but there are 5 million of them, so how is this any different to trying make abatoirs illegal and ban leather good, after all cows have those big brown eyes too....

Just seems odd to me, (and the fact the media laps this up annoys me), Id be interested in what those who live out East and see the economic and other effects of the cull think about all this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Each time I hear Paul McCartney on the radio I run to Chinatown and buy some more dog fur.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Well I guess as the only Newfoundland resident here I have to weigh in on this one......

Paul McCartney passed through St. John's yesterday (obviously flying on AC861 to Halifax, good job he didnt try today cos its not stopping in NL, but I digress....) and his stated aim to go observe/protest the seal hunt is big news here. Danny Williams (NL Premier) wants to meet with him to put the economic/social impact to him but I imagine that reasoned debate is not on the agenda. The opinion here of a largely rural and very much dependent on the fishery population is somewhere along the lines of 'What right does someone who comes from a far wealthier part of the world have to come here and tell us how we should or should not make a living'. McCartney is the latest in a long line of 'celebs' from Bridget Bardot to MacGyver to jump on the seal hunt bandwagon. Most of them a B list at best but thats by the by ('by)

I think there is a valid point of view that pictures of nice cuddly seals, particularly 'white coats' which are not actually culled, makes for good fund raising for Greenpeace, HSUS, Sea Shepherd society etc etc. Couple that with our preference these days not to know the gory details of food processing and rosy eyed vision of nature means that its a cause celebre. How many of us picking up that juicy steak at Loblaws want to picture the slaughterhouse/factory farming unit that it is produced in?

The fact is that the population is exploding and that the seal hunt offers a valuable income opportunity to fisherman who are facing diminishing returns from their other fisheries but ever increasing costs (particularly fuel). I think an average fishing boat can make around $40k from the hunt. Not so much when you've paid your costs and split it amongst the crew but useful income at an otherwise quiet time of the year.

The subject is not one I hold particularly strong views about either way. However having lived here a whiles I have some sympathies with the local position. The concern here is no so much that the govt (provincial or federal) will ban the hunt or that the protestors will stop it (they wont) but that a well orchestrated and financed publicity campaign will drive consumers to boycott Canadian/Newfoundland seafood sales. Not sure how valid that is (do you know where you fish fingers actually come from?) but for sure the protestors will always have a better publicity machine and more high profile activists than the hunters.

For a truly rabid frothing at the mouth view of the whole subject I recommend http://www.seashepherd.org/

AX

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

maybe you would enjoy being skinned alive by these brutal morons?
and before you even ask do i eat meat or wear leather, thats a no!
if you educated yourself you might read that independent reports have confirmed the seals actually HELP the fish population.
sorry, but it makes me sick. and something that really irritates me about canadians, their apathy.
they should be deeply ashamed of this cull.
Do we need fur coats? i dont think so.................................

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Skinned alive? I guess it depends whos information you believe. Neither side strikes me as particularly objective. I wonder how many cows, pigs etc are slaughtered without being properly humainly stunned first.

As a (vegan?) dont you think that the resources going into this would be better used to protest the much larger number of other animals exploited and abused for the sake of mankind?

Im curious about the independent reports that say seals help fish stocks, do you have a link. Having worked as an academic researcher I know all about pleasing the paymasters so Im curious about the funding and how independent they really are. I guess Im as skeptical of that as I am of the "swim reflex" twitching.

I suspect its a red herring anyway because as far as I can tell the argument about seals depleating fish stocks has not been raised this time (except by you , indirectly), it should probably be considered counterproductive by the pro hunting lobby as compared to human overfishing the seals are not the problem. Its just a straight economic exploitation argument isnt it?

Do they need a fur coat? No. But do they need the income generated by the hunt/cull if other people are stupid enough to exercise their freedom of choice to wear this dead animal rather than another sort? Its not exactly a wealthy area, so I imagine the income is gratefully recieved by those involved.

I dont wear furs, dont eat a lot of meat, but I'm not sentimental about where our food comes from, or the fact that most domesticated (farm) animals were bred for and exist for one reason and one reason only, and that "conservation" is really only supported to ensure future stocks are available for exploitation. But I think its important that this be done with as little suffering as possible and the rules enforced.

Suffering of course is extended to include having to listening to the media fest around this.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Sigh.
No I dont really want to be skinned alive by Brutal Morons or even Gentle Intellectuals. I also consider myself to be pretty educated and able to see more than one point of view. Something you evidently are unable to do. I suggest eating red meat cos it makes you think clearer. And of course leather belts avoid having to walk around with your trousers around your ankles at all times. Food for thought.....

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

To be fair so do nylon suspenders, but of course you need to get oil from somewhere for those manmade fibres.

Complicated isnt it? :(

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Hemp rope. Veggie daughter was big into hemp before she saw the light.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Doh, hemp, of course. The answer to so many of lifes insurmountable problems:)

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Maybe Sir Paul will get distracted and start hugging some trees instead. After all there's plenty of em in Canada.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Maybe all those so called "Stars" could butt out of Canadian politics unless they would like to move to Canada and commit some of their hefty bank accounts to our economy. I am so sick of idiots like Bono and Paul McCartney & Peg (his wife) coming here telling us what is wrong with our country. Get a real job and fix the problems in your own country first.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Each time I go to Chinatown and I want to eat sum yung gai.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Ah, the last word in rational argument and debate I see :rolleyes:

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Is there no <groan> emoticon :mad:

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

HWP, I'm forming a quite distinct picture of you from your posts........

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

West coast stoner nympho. Hmmm, hwp, do you by any chance speak Swedish ?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Typical bleeding heart (normally rich) liberals who know jack-shit about the real world. :mad:

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Wasn't the US hemp industry essentially killed off as a result of political lobbying from DuPont, or whoever it is that makes nylon and has big mates on Capitol Hill?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

I believe so, yes. It's very small scale now.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

I wish activists who get upset about the seal culls would get as upset over horrific factory farming processess in the UK. Never see them outside Bernard Matthew's factory waving placards - chickens are just not cute enough.

However, I do believe that if you are going to end a creature's life, it should be done as quickly, cleanly and with as little distress as possible - not too much to ask, I think?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Ha ha ha.... :D

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Wait until you get here and see the "farming processes", most of which were outlawed in the EU years ago. E.G. Transportation of farm animals to slaughter houses is inhumane at best, at worst horrific by EU standards. :rolleyes:
http://www.earthsave.bc.ca/materials...s/wc_know.html

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

There is always cotton. They still grow tons of it down south.

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I fully understand the need for culling, what i find objectionable is the method, the barbaric clubbing of seals, some of which don't die til the 5/6/7th whack!!!

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Actually I think most of them are shot rather than clubbed.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

I can't resist weighing in on this after reading all of the stupid comments on the Globe and Mail website to the McCartney seal hunt protest.
Why do these seals need to be culled? From what I understand numbers have "exploded" because they were over hunted for years and are finally returning to numbers that are more normal. I have little faith in fisheries Canada. These are the same people who are responsible for the depletion of cod. I might have more confidence if the fisheries people weren't from the maritimes. Seems they lack the independence to make balanced decision. Why is Canadian taxpayers money used to subsidize the slaughter. The cost to the fishing industry of the seafood boycott, I would have thought is much more costly. The argument that other animals/people are suffering is brainless. Two wrongs don't make a right.
My final comment is that its such a black mark on Canada in the eyes of the world. Some might say "who cares?," but then don't claim moral superiority over our neighbours to the south.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

The only reason, McCartney's in Canada, is because no-one in the UK will listen to him anymore :p

If McCartney's really got a conscience, he should get his arse over to Iraq to highlight the plight of innocent humans getting slaughtered everyday in the name of oil.

If he feels so bad about the plight of the seals, he should donate some of his considerable wealth, to investing some diversity of employment in the areas that the seal hunters live and work, everybody needs money to live and support their families, what choice would you make between a cute seal cub and feeding/supporting your family if there was no other choice available?

Economics pure and simple, that is how western consumer society exists.

If you don't like it, i've heard North Korea is nice this time of year!!!!

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

People choose their causes based on personal preference. Nobody, except maybe Paul McCartney has time to protest everything.
I get the impression that the seal hunt doesn't contribute as much to Newfoundland's economy as everyone seems to think. Canada's not a third world country. Surely people aren't so poor that they are reduced to clubbing seals to support their families. Why not use government transfer payments to teach people useful job skills?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Oh, they've thought of that, Newfoundland might be one of the world's most subsidised places. It's problematic though, in rural communities there is no politically correct form of employment, seals get whacked, trees get cut down, the earth gets dug up, people in big cities in far countries tut about it all but, except for London7, they carry on eating cod and they keep building with wood. The Newfoundland government even forced collectivisation, rather like Stalin (google Smallwood Outports) in the interests of economic change but to no great effect. The only thing that's moved the Newfies from depending on natural resources is the diaspora.

Personally, I used to feel for the seals but really I'd rather see a thousand seals clubbed and a thousand dogs skinned alive than a happy Paul McCartney. Perhaps a deal could be brokered whereby Caanda would stop seal culling and he'd agree to destroy his entire back catalogue.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Sounds like a deal! You think Stephen Harper will go along with that?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Stephen Who ?

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

I thought not, though I did hear the Conservatives are the only major political party not supporting the hunt.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Of course the rich and famous need fur coats, more than one each in fact.

How else would they differentiate themselves from the scruffy masses....by bling, and fur, and poor taste, and wanton expenditure, and gated communities, and chauffered limousines. Optional is bizarre sexual experimentation (not an exclusive of the rich and famous).

It is of the world, of how it has been and always will be.

Rich.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Seems harsh if thats to include all Lennon/McCartney too

"Maybe Im Amazed" or whatever it was was OK in its own way too, but perhaps is the exception that prooves the "sucks as a solo artist" rule. :confused:

Not entirely sure how fisheries canada was responsible for every bloody nation under the sun coming to international waters and hauling in the Cod :confused:

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

I agree with you regarding the ineptidude of the Canadian fisheries dept.
With the melting ice there is a now a problem with the harp seals breeding grounds shrinking. Also the krull (not sure of spelling!) which is linked to the welfare of many marine animals is in drastic decline probably due to global warming the end result of which means the delicate food chain that exists in the arctic and indeed the antarctic is at risk. Back to the seals;" In 2002, a poor ice year, Canadian government scientists assume that three-quarters (75 percent) of the pups died as a consequence of bad ice conditions. In 1998 and 2000, they estimated that one-quarter of the pups died due to lack of ice before the hunt began"...seems to me that they are adjusting the numbers to suit the needs of the fishermen.
“Harp seals depend on a stable ice platform to give birth to their pups and successfully nurse them. When ice fails to form, or is unusually thin, normal pupping and nursing is drastically affected and large numbers of newborn pups die,” said Dr. David Lavigne, IFAW’s Science Advisor and internationally renowned marine mammal expert who has studied harp seals for the past 30 years. “The combination of a lack of ice and a seal hunt could result in the loss of almost all of this year’s pups born in the Gulf and, possibly, on the Front, as well.”
Dr David Lavigne- marine biologist.

There is no plan to account for the effects of climate change and the melting ice thus we could reach a stage whereby the numbers reach a dangerous low as has happened with cod...we cannot just "hope for the best" . ...oh and unfortunately not all the cubs are shot and then humanely skinned. I saw some footage of it last year.
It is difficult to get this stuff filmed as it is illegal to film the cull courtesy of the canadian government.... I have no opinion on Paul Mcartney but if it gets some much needed coverage for this issue then kudos.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

What a total moron!! :rolleyes:

.... as though it's legal to skin the seals alive.

.... as though you could possibly totally avoid consuming or using animal products.

..... as though the seals in the Gulf are increasing fish populations.

..... walk into any bar in Atlantic Canada then spout off your rubbish and see just how apathic Canadians are. :)

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Bingo.

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Wonders will never cease. I will have to slit my throat. I actually agree with you on something.... :scared:

Re: McCartney / Seal Cull
 

Does that mean you think that engine block heaters are to be used at any temperature below 0 degrees C? ;)