Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Just to add that this kind of thing now happens in the UK as it transitions into more of a North American style "gig economy" and less of a European style socialist one. Layoffs are particularly common in areas like IT, project management, accountancy and the blue collar trades and differ from redundancy.

Redundancy tends to mean that the job no longer exists whereas a layoff means the job still exists but they think someone else would be a better fit or, more commonly these days I think, would be willing to do it for less.

Best of luck to the OP though. It happened to me at the last job I had in Canada and was the reason why we moved to the UK back then since I was the only one with a wage and a work permit at the time. On that occasion I think it was all part of a much larger cost saving initiative but, as hard as it is, you just can't take this stuff personally these days.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Sorry, perhaps that is your understanding regarding being laid off in the UK but it doesn't necessarily apply here. We have rules... it's Canada, after all!

That may also be your experience in the UK but not mine. I've been laid off and I've been made redundant... both for the same reason - there were changes or a reorganisation within the company resulting in my position being unnecessary or no longer financially viable. For the 1st, in the UK, our company was taken over and they relocated the department - and my position - to the other company's headquarters and made everyone at our company in that department redundant. It wasn't cost efficient to run two identical departments at 2 separate locations! For the 2nd, the QROPS disaster happened, resulting in 90% of my job disappearing and it was no longer economically viable for the partners to employ an assistant and so I was Laid Off!

Layoffs are not what you seem to be suggesting - they can't 'lay you off' because they think someone else is better.

You can be on a temporary lay-off - because there's not enough work at the present time to make it financially viable for you to attend work - but there may be in the future, so you are still technically employed by the company - there are strict regulations governing this. It's not uncommon.

A Permanent Layoff (Laid Off) is exactly the same as being made redundant - it is done for financial reasons where it's no longer viable to employ the person.

Does just getting rid of / dismissing someone happen when they have someone else they would like to employ? Yes of course.. but they will use the expression "Not a good fit" to dismiss the employee. Or else they use 'constructive dismissal' to ease them out - by changing their terms of contract, be that pay, location or general terms... they can also dismiss if they feel like it by making something up, lol, provided they give proper notice and pay the termination pay!
:)

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Just been noted I made a mistake as I was rushing to get out to work when i wrote this morning:

I meant to say

'check your next employment contract because my previous one had a section that they can let you go at any time withOUT just cause. '

Just cause is like theft, gross misconduct and as long as the company have evidence they can let you go at any time.

My contact did in fact state that they could let me go WITHOUT JUST CAUSE at any time

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

It might depend on the terms of your employment I suppose but that has actually happened to me as a temporary contractor. I have been laid off in the past and then the client have almost immediately hired a less experienced person to do the job on a lower pay rate as part of a cost cutting exercise.

Obviously it would be much harder for them to do that with an FTE though and probably less beneficial since they would need to pay redundancy/severance compensation.

​​​​​I guess my main point though is that job security isn't really a given in either country these days.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

In England and Wales, employees cannot simply be laid off once they have been working for an employer for a certain period of time. Contractors are not employees and, in England and Wales, their only real remedy is for breach of contract. The rules that apply to apples do not apply to oranges.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

In Ontario, contractors are fair game for termination at any moment. Good clients try to terminate at the end of the contract or, at least, give a week of notice, but they don't have to. "That's why you get paid the big bucks" was the rationale when contractors did get paid big bucks, now they're just victims of the casualization of the labour force.

One factor in favour of working as a contractor is that here, in Ontario, employers tend not to display loyalty to their employees anyway (and we can't all work for Chapman's ice cream). I know of three people who have been laid off for reasons of illness, one was still in the hospital enjoying his heart attack when they replaced him. Yes, technically one can launch an unfair dismissal action but I think workers do well to take a short term view, always take cash over benefits, avoid litigation..

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Could not agree more. I learnt a long time ago to be mercenary and go for the cash. The days where companies care about their employees are long gone, even in the UK, although in the UK the employment law is better than Canada. I worked for a major pharmaceutical company in Toronto where they fed all of their employees this ra-ra, 'we are family' mentality which people swallowed. Still, once a year, they would have a 'reorganisation' where they would basically get rid of the people whose faces didn't fit and who were not necessarily under-performers.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Ditto. I learned a while ago not to show loyalty or solidarity to any employer as it will only ever be a one way street. That's especially relevant in a field like IT where most businesses are constantly trying to cut corners and costs wherever they can. Going for the money often means taking a lot more responsibility for your own financial well being and personal development but those are probably things that people should be doing anyway.

What's weird is the larger adoption of the US-style 'family of colleagues' has happened at the same time as more employers now treat their employees as dispensable.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Some contractors are employees though. I've been hired as an internal fixed term employee in both the UK and Canada. In the UK I received all the benefits that a permanent employee would (e.g. sick pay, annual leave). In Canada I didn't and I was just paid by the hour plus bonuses.

In both countries though the contracts stipulated that I could be released at one week's notice without reprisal after the initial probation period. Within the probation period they could terminate without notice or reason. Internally I was referred to as a contractor even though I wasn't a self employed or agency consultant and was on the normal payroll. Six month probation periods are also becoming increasingly common in the UK these days.

One upside to working in IT though is that you seldom need to work the notice period if the employer terminates since they're usually fearful of sending someone back to their desk with keys to the vault after dropping the bomb on that person. Essentially it just becomes an extra week or so of paid leave.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

Giving people that 'feel-good' factor and the occasional day in the park doing some nonsense team building is far better for these companies than paying people a decent salary.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

That is a contradiction and something CRA pay close attention to. They can only be one or the other. An employee can have contract of employment, which cannot offer less the the ES. This does not make them a contractor. Contractors are self employed, CRA have a specific criteria to determine if one is an employee or a contractor.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

2 years.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

I was always incorporated which gave me some leeway but even as an incorporated contractor, if you go to the same company every day, sit at the same desk, and do the same job, then you can be deemed by CRA as having a similar arrangement to a staff employee. Also, I would always try to have more than one client in a tax year. The HMRC in the UK is trying to catch these types of contractors through the very complicated and very ambiguous IR35.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

I agree that it is yes however I've never worked as an independent and technically self employed consultant in Canada yet was considered a contractor nonetheless and didn't receive any benefits that an employee usually would apart from EI (which I believe is mandatory in Canada anyway).

My understanding is that working as a self employed contractor in Canada is not as beneficial as it can be in the UK or at least not as beneficial as it used to be before Cameron mostly killed off IR35. The UK government seriously have it in for contractors these days, especially following the whole Jimmy Carr case among others.

Re: Just go laid off for no reason
 

:whistle:
As the OP isn't here to discuss what the situation is for contractors nor self employed in the UK (and to a lesser degree, Canada) could we please keep this on the topic of being laid off as an employee in Canada, rather than having a chit chat, thank you.

If you want to chat about the UK please feel free to post a new thread in the Maple Leaf (off topic) forum, lol, you lot do like taking things off topic lately!

:D