bodgerx

The hire and fire mentality of North America makes me a little nervous. Well, it would if I had a job there...

geo4

My understanding is that the definition is whatever the company says it is. For what it is worth- the fact you were in constant communication with them with respect to your condition and absence should bode well for you.

Job abandonment is normally reserved for employees who for example, did not show for three days and did not contact the employer to offer any reason for absence.

Go to a lawyer and please don't look for answers on a public message board.

Good luck.

wheatsheaf

Confusing: the company is making stuff up as they go along. Lawyers are looking into it as well. Thought I would inform myself from any and all aspects as am not keen on fighting back blind folded.
"Give me the tools and I will do the job"?

geo4

That is sensible- just checking you were not relying solely on this forum. You should be entitled to x weeks pay for every year of service IMO. They are looking for just cause for dumping you and I would be very surprised if the avenue they are taking proves successful for them.

Good luck.

keith d

Sorry to hear about your problems. Seems that they are looking for a loop hole to get rid of you. If you can fight it, do so, it is so unfair. Apart from that i can't help much, but want to agree with an earlier respondent who pointed out that the labour laws in Canada are (and I quote!) "Pish!" That is SO true! Since I got here last year, I cannot believe the terms and conditions that people settle for here, it's unreal! Even my wife (Canuck and lived in UK for 8 years) agrees that compared with the UK or Europe, Working conditions here are about 40 + years behind. Sorry to be negative!

shelley748

Sorry tohear about your problems- you DO really need to contact an employment lawyer or the Ministry of Labor.

I will PM you with info

iaink

Man that sucks:curse: Seek legal advice ASAP, as well as talking to the union, this sounds extremely fishy, even by canadian standards.

Good Luck!

woodmanbg

What bad luck. As has been said it certainly sounds fishy and after 20 years with them most uncalled for.

Good luck and hope all turns out well.

dinger24

What a horrible situation you and your family have been put in. After 20yrs loyalty must be very hurtful.
You need to put your emotions to one side and be strong, dilligent and professional in your approach. As another poster states if you want your job back you need to be careful how you approach this, me personally would not want to work for this company any longer.
I hope you get what you deserve, and have earned! and your past employer gets what they deserve.
Very best of luck to you

wheatsheaf

Shelley: many many thanks for your message. Very useful indeed and I have contacted the lawyer. Very interesting for everyone employed in Canada: some of the routes that can be taken if one has been "terminated" fairly or unfairly will preclude legal action at a later date especially if a unionised employee. Also, employers will take the most costly and lenghty course of action in the hope that the employee fades emotionally and financially to the point where he/she will accept a less than equitable "payoff".

The more I search, the more it is obvious that one has to persevere come what may. If there is any consolation it is that Canada's legal system is derived somewhat from the UK......but then so is Zimbabwe's and India's!!!!.

penny farthing

i am very sorry to hear about this and I'll put in my 2 cents worth-
1.were you a member of a union? if so they will have a collective agreement with the company the terms of which they must adhere to- see your Union rep.
2 How long were you off sick?
3.Do you have your ROE- record of employment- from them ?
this is necessary to claim EI
4. I dont know all the facts of your situation but they must feel they are on solid ground given the risk of litigation and an unfair dismissal case against them.
5 Was job abandonment the only reason for your termination?
6.Did you sign anyhting accepting their terms?
7. Did this happen to anyone else in your company?
8. If you decide to pursue this legally and I would be inclined not to, its a huge huge risk -but at least talk to a good labor lawyer -get recommendations on who you choose and ask his costs in advance- they will usually give you a free consult.
9 Firing in this country is just so prevalent and brutal,I am shocked- not like UK used to be at all

Pammy

I was just wondering how you were doing with this yesterday, dont give up and keep us informed

penny farthing

Please do not fight this unless you have millions because they do have plenty of money(more than you) and insurance to fight back and also they can hire a better laywer than you can and they can make you wait and stall you forever and ever.
they dont care if you starve -very few win and the real cost of the effort is a massive toll on all concerned including your mental and physical health.

realize you are fighting an entity,a company-insurance company really, not a person and that thing has no scruples.
Move on and forget them

wheatsheaf

[QUOTE=penny farthing;7419973]i am very sorry to hear about this and I'll put in my 2 cents worth.



Firstly, thank you all who have given advice. It is an utterly devastating experience, moreso because I genuinely do not believe I have done anything to deserve it.
1) the company have completely ignored the collective agreement.
2) I was off 4 weeks (feb was a short month and there was a public holiday in there somewhere too) all with supported medical documentation.
3) The ROE document states "leave of absence" with a footnote in hand writing saying 'abandonment'. So am being delayed in any EI.
4) job abandonment is the only reason given. My performance has been above the company average for 21 years, but my new upstart manager who (perhaps due to inexperience but more likely malice) is/was very oppositional.
5) Ive not signed anything simply because no one will speak to me at Human Resources and other directors etc have been told not to answer any of my calls (so Im told)
6) The last time this happened was 2 years ago when the person was sick. After 9 months of legal procedures, she was re enstated. Plainly a personal vendetta, so it turned out.
7) Lawyers Ive spoken to are jumping all over me to pursue this aggressively as they say Ive got an excellent case. My fear is that it will cost me and my young family a great deal emotionally and financially, on top of the surprisingly ferocious impact to date.
What grates is that I and so many my age in the company, sacrificed our holidays, time with family (here and in UK), didnt attend friends get togethers, never had a summer holiday in 20 years so that we could keep company deadlines, learnt new technologies in our spare time, and worked 10-16 hour days during the last 5 years (helped our commissions no doubt), and then get treated like lepers. It's humiliating, and in my wife and kids I can see the pain of having paid the real price all these years and this shames me to the core.

I can only think that my offence is my years of service plus age which would mean vesting an increased company pension within the next 20plus months. That, and maybe I have that "fair play" approach which is so easily read in North America for cowardice?. Or is it "the times plague when madmen lead the blind"?

paolosmythe

Mr Wheatsheaf;

this is an upsetting scenario for sure. it is one thing to be dismissed after such a long and committed career with just one employer, but for it to have been done in such an under-handed manner is just flat out insulting.

you can speculate the conspiracy of a company trying to 'off load' an aging work force, but this is unlikely to help you. you can continue to consider your many year's service as reason to expect better treatment, but really this is not the most relevent detail.

i would suggest cross checking what you have done during your recent 'sick leave', against the terms and expectations specified in your contract of employment.

you have communicated to your employer by fax / letter / e-mail / telephone / doc's letter that you are reasonably absent.... but if in the Ts&Cs of your employment it states that you must do this hourly / daily / weekly, then you might find the loop hole they are now currently trying to exploit.

if you find that your contractual obligations and actual actions correlate, then try to presume that simple human error has arisen in the employer's HR department and talk to them to amend it.

if you have been as reasonable as you claim, then they would surely reinstate your employment status and ensure that all benefits and salary are paid up in full. if in some manner you have failed to meet your obligations, then this would give them a chance to explain such to you, and you can at least then deal with the reality of your situation.

if this reality causes you to conclude that you have been unfairly treated, then you should seek advice / mediation from a third party such as a legal or union representative. all of your efforts prior to making such a contact will only further solidify your committment to act honestly and with completely good will.

(one other thought; if you do decide / need to go thru the protracted and costly route of litigation, you could start off by taking your story to the newspapers local to the company / its primary clients. tabloids have their uses to even the little people occasionally.)

apologies if i have stated the bleeding obvious in any of this post, i did scan this thread a little midway through. also, i am not in any way a lawyer or well versed in the art of employment wrangling.

i wish you the best of luck.