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-   -   IT Industry Canada - Munted? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/industry-canada-munted-354398/)

Ignition Feb 11th 2006 7:59 am

IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
Hi :)

Haven't been here for a while ;)

Wanted to ask those of you who are there if the IT industry, and specifically networking, is as depressed/munted/poorly as it seems? Put resume/CV up on Monster a couple of weeks ago and so far have had over 60 responses including responses from Spain, Holland and Sweden. That same resume actively sent to about 50 Canadian recruitment agents, headhunters, etc, garnered one response.

Speaking to a couple of people who work in IT over there they were nothing but doom and gloom about it, wages low, employers asking the earth because they can.

Any of you guys have any opinions? Is this true or was the guy telling me that more from a 'Stay away from our jobs' point of view?

Thanks :)

debiharper Feb 11th 2006 8:38 am

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
Hi

We have a friend who moved to Alberta 4 mths ago and got a job within 3 weeks as a software developer.Apparently CVs are not the way to go in Canada you need a resume and go round meeting people and selling yourself.I also spoke to a canadian friend in Calgary who said the IT industry is good at the moment.

Cheers
Debbie



Originally Posted by Ignition
Hi :)

Haven't been here for a while ;)

Wanted to ask those of you who are there if the IT industry, and specifically networking, is as depressed/munted/poorly as it seems? Put resume/CV up on Monster a couple of weeks ago and so far have had over 60 responses including responses from Spain, Holland and Sweden. That same resume actively sent to about 50 Canadian recruitment agents, headhunters, etc, garnered one response.

Speaking to a couple of people who work in IT over there they were nothing but doom and gloom about it, wages low, employers asking the earth because they can.

Any of you guys have any opinions? Is this true or was the guy telling me that more from a 'Stay away from our jobs' point of view?

Thanks :)


Ignition Feb 11th 2006 10:15 am

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by debiharper
Hi

We have a friend who moved to Alberta 4 mths ago and got a job within 3 weeks as a software developer.Apparently CVs are not the way to go in Canada you need a resume and go round meeting people and selling yourself.I also spoke to a canadian friend in Calgary who said the IT industry is good at the moment.

Cheers
Debbie

Hi,

I'm aware that resumes are the way to go, I sent one rather than a CV :)

Interesting that meeting people, etc, is apparently the way to go, mildly disconcerting that ability to kiss behind is an issue in getting jobs rather than purely skills and experience :(

I should mention I was asking specifically about network engineers rather than software developers. I know that software developers are in demand and apparently well loved, however my particular bit of the industry appears in strife there as the astounding lack of a response to my resume there compared to Europe suggests :(

I should have been more specific in the thread title, anyone have any idea about the score for people who work in networking rather than programming / system administration?

debiharper Feb 11th 2006 2:04 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by Ignition
Hi,

I'm aware that resumes are the way to go, I sent one rather than a CV :)

Interesting that meeting people, etc, is apparently the way to go, mildly disconcerting that ability to kiss behind is an issue in getting jobs rather than purely skills and experience :(

I should mention I was asking specifically about network engineers rather than software developers. I know that software developers are in demand and apparently well loved, however my particular bit of the industry appears in strife there as the astounding lack of a response to my resume there compared to Europe suggests :(

I should have been more specific in the thread title, anyone have any idea about the score for people who work in networking rather than programming / system administration?

Hi,

The point I was trying to make was that the approach to getting a job in Canada is very different to the approach in Europe. Sending a CV (or a Resume with a covering letter) is not very likely to receive any responses whether you are a Network Engineer or a Software Developer. Canadian employers do not generally recruit in this way, so you can't really use it as an indication of the state of the market.

Going out and meeting prospective employers has nothing to do with 'kissing behind' and everything to do with selling yourself (as well as your skills) in a manner that doesn't waste anyones time. If you have ever interviewed anyone on a technical level, you will know that what is written on a CV is not necessarily a clear indication of the applicant's true abilities.

No-one can really give you a clear indication of the state of the market, as only a small number of Canadian jobs are advertised on job sites such as monster, etc... (most jobs are filled by people who turn up at the building actively selling themselves and their skills) They will only be able to tell you what their experiences have been, which will be worthless because it will depend on how much effort They put in to getting a job, and of course, how good they are at what they do.

Don't get disheartened with the lack of response, it really doesn't mean anything!

Cheers

Debbie

Ignition Feb 11th 2006 3:44 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by debiharper
Hi,

The point I was trying to make was that the approach to getting a job in Canada is very different to the approach in Europe. Sending a CV (or a Resume with a covering letter) is not very likely to receive any responses whether you are a Network Engineer or a Software Developer. Canadian employers do not generally recruit in this way, so you can't really use it as an indication of the state of the market.

Going out and meeting prospective employers has nothing to do with 'kissing behind' and everything to do with selling yourself (as well as your skills) in a manner that doesn't waste anyones time. If you have ever interviewed anyone on a technical level, you will know that what is written on a CV is not necessarily a clear indication of the applicant's true abilities.

No-one can really give you a clear indication of the state of the market, as only a small number of Canadian jobs are advertised on job sites such as monster, etc... (most jobs are filled by people who turn up at the building actively selling themselves and their skills) They will only be able to tell you what their experiences have been, which will be worthless because it will depend on how much effort They put in to getting a job, and of course, how good they are at what they do.

Don't get disheartened with the lack of response, it really doesn't mean anything!

Cheers

Debbie


I have enquired with a group of Canadian IT professionals on this matter as this is totally at odds with what I've heard before.

While I understand the value of contacts turning up at a building wanting to see a member of HR wastes far more time than a simple resume submission and is from what I've been told likely to solicit the same reaction it is here, being escorted from the building at worst, at best having your resume taken from you and likely sent to the round filing drawer.

EDIT: I should also mention, as my signature suggests, that indicating I'm available makes recruiters chase me. I'm confused as to why I should have to run around selling myself in Canada. Last time I checked companies look for staff, that way they get a good view of the market, and can persue the best talent. Your way suggests going door to door looking for jobs and implies a fair amount of desperation along with a sense that someone should be grateful for getting a job in Canada in this field.

Call me odd but I am not grateful for my current position, I do my job well and am good value for money to my employer. Recruiters persuing me here suggests that I have valuable skills which aren't that easy to find.

If Canadian employers have it so easy that they have no need to advertise a lot of positions as qualified candidates just appear at their buildings I have evidently badly underestimated how skilled and experienced Canadians are in my field and others. Indeed if this friend of yours who has an occupation which is listed as being critically understaffed in Canada has to take the approach of going door to door I am very scared of my job prospects.

I've been informed that Canadian employers use resumes from previous applicants and use agencies to pre-screen. That's where a lot of the jobs that aren't advertised publicly disappear. This is just common sense using existing resource or having a filter in the way. Employing people who turn up at the door seems a very very weird way of doing business.

Ignition Feb 11th 2006 4:10 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
A chap advised, same approach I've been taking:


Personally my approach when job hunting has been to simply saturate the playing field of likely companies with faxes. They cost me nothing to send and i can cover a much wider area using my phone line and their paper and the odds of a successful hit or two increases exponentially with sending out a hundred or two resumes instead of schlepping my ass all over town to hand out a dozen or two....
This is exactly what I've been doing. Evidently applying in person doesn't make quite the impression you think it does, and most of the hidden recruiting is via agencies and stored resumes.

I should mention I don't have a degree, although I'd hope that degrees in Canada have a similar value to here in my field, not much, and practical experience is king.

CalgaryBlade Feb 11th 2006 4:56 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by Ignition
A chap advised, same approach I've been taking:



This is exactly what I've been doing. Evidently applying in person doesn't make quite the impression you think it does, and most of the hidden recruiting is via agencies and stored resumes.

I should mention I don't have a degree, although I'd hope that degrees in Canada have a similar value to here in my field, not much, and practical experience is king.

I can only talk to the Calgary IT market, but Network people are "ten a penny" here. Many of the technical colleges offer the certification courses and actual Network jobs are highly sought after/prized.

The real demand is for Software Developers and Business Analysts.

Good luck in your search.

JezHarper Feb 11th 2006 5:18 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by Ignition
A chap advised, same approach I've been taking:



This is exactly what I've been doing. Evidently applying in person doesn't make quite the impression you think it does, and most of the hidden recruiting is via agencies and stored resumes.

I should mention I don't have a degree, although I'd hope that degrees in Canada have a similar value to here in my field, not much, and practical experience is king.

Hi,

Well, we have a stalemate :) Everyone that I have spoken to has said to use the approach I suggested, and they have had no problem finding work.

I'm not sure about not having a degree, I know they are valued more in Canada than they are in the UK and it may be a factor used in the selection process regardless of whether it is a requirement for the job or not, which may be why you are not getting many responses.

Are you in the UK? How did you get sufficiaent points without a degree?

Cheers

Jez

sysclp Feb 11th 2006 5:19 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
If you aren't already in Canada, don't even bother as companies won't be interested until you are actually living there and available. Unless you have a very rare specialty that is in high demand, they will ignore you for someone who already lives there and can start tomorrow.

Most companies will not search for people since there are hundreds of people applying for every opening. Enough come to them that they don't have to bother.

ClareBC Feb 11th 2006 5:53 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
Hi Ignition

I was recently speaking to someone that was involved in IT recruitment in a growing IT company - they will IGNORE any resume from someone outside of Canada. It is just binned.

They might look at someone outside of the Province - but they have to be something special.

But I know that when they advertise they get around 200 to 500 resumes (!) However, some of the resumes will appear within minutes of it being posted on a jobs board.

So now can you see the appeal of networking for a compnay, they don't want to trawl through stacks of resumes, they would rather have the recommendation of a current member of staff etc.


Clare

Ignition Feb 11th 2006 6:01 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by ClareBC
Hi Ignition

I was recently speaking to someone that was involved in IT recruitment in a growing IT company - they will IGNORE any resume from someone outside of Canada. It is just binned.

They might look at someone outside of the Province - but they have to be something special.

But I know that when they advertise they get around 200 to 500 resumes (!) However, some of the resumes will appear within minutes of it being posted on a jobs board.

So now can you see the appeal of networking for a compnay, they don't want to trawl through stacks of resumes, they would rather have the recommendation of a current member of staff etc.


Clare

Thanks for the info Clare, just proves it is as bad as I've been told. Saying that though the advertising for my colleagues brings in tons of resumes as well, 99% of them being completely unsuitable, which is the issue. Most of those resumes will be from people who have pieces of paper, no experience and no real clue what they are doing as soon as it leaves the textbook.

Networking is an ongoing thing, I do it constantly :)

Ignition Feb 11th 2006 6:02 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by CalgaryBlade
I can only talk to the Calgary IT market, but Network people are "ten a penny" here. Many of the technical colleges offer the certification courses and actual Network jobs are highly sought after/prized.

The real demand is for Software Developers and Business Analysts.

Good luck in your search.

There is the problem, certification courses look pretty but don't make people suitable for employment in anything bar the starter roles on their own.

Here the network jobs are chased in a big way as well, hundreds of resumes are received, 99% or more are no good. Sadly the industry I work in is considered a cash cow where a piece of paper will set you up for good. Not surprised recruiters get fed up after the 200th CV from someone who fixes the office printer but has a Cisco certification from nightschool, or is most enthusiastic but doesn't know a Cisco switch from a light switch.

The bummer is if the jobs are so highly prized clearly there have never been that many meaning there aren't that many people who have actual experience.

Thanks for the input though, much appreciated. Again confirms what I was told, even if it certainly isn't what I wanted to hear.

port7 Feb 12th 2006 11:41 am

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
Anyone know what the market is like for Project Managers?

I have recently got my PRINCE2 Practitioner and have several years of project experience too, mainly in infrastructure implementations.

Also is Linux taking off OK in Canada?

jandro Feb 12th 2006 7:47 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 
Ignition,

From my experience it is indeed harder to find any kind of IT job in Canada. However I'm basing my opinion from my experience in Vancouver. My impression is that Alberta is the easiest place to find work of any kind. I have 5 years of technical support experience in the UK. I've found there are far fewer jobs posted here and the competition is fierce. I did manage to get interviews by applying to jobs on monster.ca but the response was nothing like when I applied for jobs on jobserve in the UK. Like many I ended up doing tech support in a call center. I earned a fraction of my salary in the UK. There, I met people who had previously worked as programmers, managers, some had CCNA and CCNP, etc. People were stabbing each other in the back for a few cents raise!

Most positions demand at least a 2 year computer related degree, several years experience and various certs before they'll take you seriously. I don't know why it was easier in the UK but some have said the in Canada there is an overemphasis on certification and degrees here-probably because the competion is fierce and employers need a standard to weed resumes out.

dbd33 Feb 12th 2006 8:27 pm

Re: IT Industry Canada - Munted?
 

Originally Posted by jandro
IMy impression is that Alberta is the easiest place to find work of any kind.

I very much doubt that that's true of the computer business. I think the GTA (financial hub of the country) and Ottawa (the feds) have most of the computers followed by south-west Ontario (all those insurance companies in Kitchener and London), Montreal (CGI is one the world's larger outsourcers), Quebec City (their government is incredibly overpowered for computers) and then Calgary (quangoes and oil companies, though I found that an awful lot of oil related computing is done in the US).

I expect there are personal computer elsewhere but in terms of large scale IT employment I think Ontario is pretty much it for Canada.


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