I think computing and data storage as moved on bit from that scenario

Most people’s biggest risk of having their data ripped of by a criminal is not in a government data base, but in a badly secured home computer or by dumping your un-shredded financial documents in your garbage

Now if we were into to using smart modern technology and they are encoding biometrics into the card, then no self respecting geek would pass up the opportunity to use this as part of the encryption key
So without access to the card and the relevant biometric data then your data would be quite secure, even more secure than it is now all nicely encrypted using your unique biometrics
Having said that I’m sure that security is only as good as long as you keep the card out of the bad guy’s hands

The government may sometimes be borderline incompetent when it comes to managing secure information, but compared to Joe public who are useless most of the time and worse than that occasionally

This seems to me to be a lot of screaming and hysteria about nothing

I admire your faith, even if I don't share it, but where's the compelling argument for introducing a persistent centralised database containing (as currently proposed) 50+ categories of personal information about the individual that you will be obliged to keep current (or be fined)?

All I'm hearing is "it'll probably be harmless" and "it'll likely be no worse than what's currently there".

Seems an odd reason to spank another 20 billion quid when there's a perfectly good biometric passport system currently in place that serves just to identify you? Why would you possibly need more?

Have you really no better way to spend 20 billion quid?

That Benjamin Franklin, he knew a thing or two.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I haven't said I wanted one, just that if it becomes a legal requirement to carry them then I shouldn't have to pay to get one.

Looking at this page, it looks like any UK resident over 16 applying for a UK Passport from 2011 with have their details automatically recorded for an Identity Card, which will be sent out after they've got you to provide your fingerprints at a local or mobile processing centre.

Apparently all foreign nationals in the UK will be required to have one from this month whilst those working in high-security jobs will have them from next year.

How would they apply this to us Brits abroad, as I'm sure most of us will return to visit the UK at some point whilst others will move back permanantly. An ID Card will be required to prove your identity to access a wide range of services.

When we renew our passports I suspect?

I'd be surprised if they go as far as delivering iris scanners, fingernail extractors and DNA samplers to all Britannia's far flung embassies (although I suppose this could be contracted out) so I'm still optimistic I'll be able to renew just the passport from overseas without being added to the Orwellian machine.

Anyway, there will be a change of Government before they become mandatory for all, and the other major parties are still pledging to scrap this enormous white elephant. Not as if they don't need the pennies elsewhere at the moment, is it?

Apparently the actual ID card will be an option you can refuse, which just goes to show it's not about the card at all; it's all about the database, and it always was.

Apparently the opt-out is only until the end of 2010. I'm guessing that if they don't get us over here then they'll get us if we go over there.

Apparently it will be mandatory to get one but not to carry it, so what's the point of it being a mandatory ID card.

I'll be able to travel on a Canadian passport by then, touch wood.

Yes but it'll still have your place of birth as UK, so I think they'll get you to go to a seperate room for processing.

I think the point is to get the mechanism in place with minimum disagreement; once we've got our cards, it will only be a question of time before we're obliged to carry them.

Here are my observations re Id Cards.

Most europeans and canadians carry ID if they drive. You have to carry your drivers license with you when you drive and most people just routinely carry it all the time and then when asked for ID from anyone they produce the drivers license. It has age, height, weight eye colour and changed every five years. Simple ID.

The UK goverment do not require you by law to carry your drivers license with you.

So they are spending billions on producing this amazing card with all this amazing information on you. They say it is to cut crime etc etc.

Now if I was prime minister of england, I would make a simple change in the law...... cost a few pence at the most.

'If you want to drive you must carry a valid drivers license.'

That could save the goverment which is about to go bankrupt billions of pounds and would not get every one upset about DNA etc etc.

My other observation on all the above posts is that most of the writers who are complaining are here in Canada.

So you do not accuse me of sitting on the fence re ID cards. The uk goverment states ID cards are going to help in the fight against crime. What a load of rubbish. All the criminals in the UK are going to stop crime cos they may get caught with an ID card? Any I really see the terrorist organisations being really scared. No 'BinLaden I can not go to England and kill people or be a suicide bomber I have no ID card'

Ah well, back to work, living here in Calgary with my canadian passport

You miss the point; the idea is not to force everyone to carry cards, the idea is to create a huge database of information about everyone and to control their lives through that database. In a few years the cards will vanish and you'll just have to use your fingerprints or DNA to prove you have the right to healthcare, buy food, buy a train ticket, etc, etc... unless someone has chosen to flag you in the database as a troublemaker, in which case you'll be denied such things.

I suspect a fair fraction of the people emigrating from the UK right now are leaving because they can see what's coming if Labour are reelected. Fortunately my passport is good to the end of the next decade and I hope I won't have any need to go back to Britain after that.

No I have not missed the point, perhaps I just didn't say it. But I totally and utterly agree with all your points.

Whilst most people were cheering when Labour got in, I thought it was a sad day and started to dig my tunnel to get out of the UK. I completed that in 2002 and was processed in 4 months. Now more people have seen the light and it takes upto 4 years!

Even as an ex police officer I do not agree with ID cards, for all the same reasons as yourself.

The problem with people in the UK is they whine and snivel and use various things as reasons why they don't have to be accountable. It's become a nation of excusers. "Not me, it's everyone else", they whine.

The masses of scum and the worthless overwhelming volume of filthy dossing wastes of humanity use fear and "privacy" as a blanket that the middle classes will wrap them up in.

Step up, be accountable sweep the scum off the streets and get the underclass straightened out.

The good people need to take back the streets - CCTV won't do it. Unburden the police from admin and paperwork. Make laws that fix stuff not just laws that get government goons measuring stuff that makes no difference.

Come to Canada and have an ID card in your wallet every day - yes, your driving licence. Oh, and be accountable in the process.

Blind snivelling fools !!! They are the problem.

R.

How will ID cards 'take back the streets'? All they'll do is increase the number of pointless laws, so the police will be spending their time arresting people for not carrying an ID card rather than dealing with real crimes.

Even Brown has stopped claiming that ID cards will reduce crime because it's incredibly obvious that they will merely create new victimless crimes.

If you can't see the difference between a driving license and a huge database that's intended to govern your entire life, there's really no hope of explaining to you why they're such a bad idea.

But I'll try one more time: imagine Brown gets his ID cards and huge database that allows him to track everyone in the country, determine their ancestry from their DNA, and allow or deny them healthcare, travel, work, sales or purchases, etc. Imagine that he's such an angel that he never abuses that power.

Now imagine that the BNP win the next election.