beckiwoo

Hypothetically, if you apply for a job and you are offered the job (subject to police check and references) and one of your references turns out to be not so fantastic (maybe they disclose a verbal warning that was on your record for example) and they decline the job offer based on that reference, regardless if the others are fantastic and glowing.

Whilst in Canada, can I ask to see the reference(s) given to the employer if this was to happen?

In the UK I know I can under data protection but I'm not sure if I would be able to when I apply for jobs in Canada??

Any information would be great, thanks

dbd33

In Canada, I've never given a reference in written form, people just phone and say "you worked with Bill Smith, what do you think?". The worst reference I've given "wouldn't touch him with yours" resulted in the prospective employer deciding not to proceed with the hiring. There was no documentation so I don't see how it could have been reported to the candidate.

Hiring and firing is whim driven, there's no responsibility on the part of the employer to have a reason to hire or fire someone and consequently no obligation to record that reason (if any). Perhaps it's different for government jobs; what sort of work are you thinking of?

SchnookoLoly

When I applied for my current position, references were done on the phone, similar to dbd33. My company did the references via a third party. I'm not sure if they provide a summary in written form to my company, or if they just have a phone call, or if they just get a line across that just says "proceed" or "do not proceed" or something like that with minimal/no context.

mikelincs

That reference, even on the phone, would be illegal in the UK. I't against the law to give a reference like that. If you don't like the person, then all you have to do is decline to give a reference, then it just can't come back to bite you.

Vulcanoid

As I understand it, it's not against the law to give a reference like that, it's against the law to give a reference which is untrue. This gave rise to a culture where people dared say little as bad references had to be meticulously backed up with why they wouldn't touch them, and you could read a lot into a reference that simply said "I confirm x worked here between the dates y and z".

That said, for the same reasons, I know a lot of public sector hirings in the UK now simply ask former employers for dates (and sometimes responsibilities) in order to confirm the claims from the CV, and to avoid the 'what did you think of a person' malarkey.

scrubbedexpat091

As said its likely to just be a phone call and just verbal with no paper trail. Some places wont even ask for references.

In the 10 years I have been here, its been 90% haven't and 10% have, buts its doubtful the 10% who did asked actually got one, since the ones provided are all companies who have a policy to never give references, so doubtful they actually got one.

Those companies will however provide start date, end date, and confirm employment, but nothing beyond that. Its been my experience with all the large companies I have worked for to be like that. No actual reference given, just confirmation of employment and nothing more.

dbd33

It can't be "illegal". It might be actionable as slander but that's a civil matter, not a criminal one. I'd say it's defensible on the basis of truth but, in any case, I didn't say it in the UK.

SchnookoLoly

The company I worked for in the UK had a standard "reference" that just said "SchnookoLoly held the title of [job title] in [team name], and worked for [company] from [startdate] to [enddate]. Her salary was £money with 25 holiday days per annum."

And that's basically all they'll write. Even though my performance ratings etc are all technically on file, they won't share any of that.

Officially the companies aren't supposed to give references, but sometimes if you speak to your manager/supervisor they will anyway. My husband did that - his bank didn't officially give references, but the managers would often do it from their non-bank email addresses or via a phone call.

christmasoompa

It's perfectly legal in the UK to give a bad reference, as long as it's honest.

rivingtonpike

https://www.gov.uk/work-reference
You'd be pretty brave to give a bad reference for someone unless you really have got your ducks well and truely in a row. In a reference there is also a huge difference between stating facts and giving opinions about somebody. The distinction can be very blurred and not one that I would choose to make.

SchnookoLoly

In the case of OP's original thing, though, if a verbal warning exists on her personnel file and there's details about it, then whoever is giving the reference can say "she was given a verbal warning for [showing up late]." (or whatever - showing up late being just an example.) Then it's backed up in fact - the warning exists on file (true and verifiable), the warning was given for turning up late (also true and verifiable). The person giving the reference would probably not expand further than what was written right in that file as it obviously can be backed up in fact.

Piff Poff

Wherever I've worked since being here, even in the HR position I have had, if an employer has asked for a reference, all we have been able to do is confirm the potential employee has worked at that place and the dates, i'm not even sure if the question would you employ this person again can be answered.

Siouxie

http://mccarthy.ca/article_detail.aspx?id=4007


Access to Reference Information

Although there are some exceptions, an applicant is generally entitled pursuant to PIPA to:

access his or her personal information under the control of the prospective employer;
information about the ways in which his or her personal information has been and is being used by the prospective employer; and
the names of individuals and organizations to whom the personal information has been disclosed.

MountainHiker

I've requested a references before and have had managers phone me and told me to stay clear of him/her and listed his reason why and also sent me a standard written reference just listing title and when he worked from and to.

I didn't tell them the reason they didn't get the job. I said they just weren't right for the position.

The laws there but are useless and don't stop anything, it sucks but unfortunately there isn't much anyone can do about it.

Aviator

Which is a reason many employers don't give written references anymore, other than employment dates. We only give employment dates now, will not give any verbal or written references.