How's Your Hydro?
 

Whether it's water-powered, coal generated or produced by something else, electricity is called "hydro" in Canada. Costs in Ontario have gone up a lot, especially in areas outside major cities. How are the costs of hydro going in your part of Canada? Are you stuck with electric baseboard heaters or do you use something else? Even in relatively warm parts of the country, you still need heating for several months of the year. Would be interesting to have some comments on this for people thinking of moving to Canada or from one province to another.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Never understood the apparent dislike for baseboard heaters. A previous house we renovated had older baseboard heaters, which got upgraded. Each was individually thermostatically controlled, so only the rooms in regular use got much heat. It was a far more efficient and cost-effective way of heating the house than a hot-air furnace and quieter too.

BC hydro costs are pretty reasonable, so I don't generally give the bills much thought. When I lived and worked at a local ski resort, the utility bills were more sobering.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

We are in a 1 bedroom apartment, with baseboard heat. 1 in the living room, and 1 in the bedroom, electric stove/oven and washer/dryer. Baseboards are on digital thermostats that are supposed to make them more efficient, but no idea if they really do.
.

This is the first billing cycle since we turned the heat on so don't have that bill yet.

Previous bill with no heat being used:

Basic Charge: 30 days @ $0.18350 /day 5.51

Step 1: 441 kW.h @ $0.08290 /kW.h 36.56

Step 2: 0 kW.h @ $0.12430 /kW.h 0.00

Rate Rider at 5.0% 2.10

GST 2.21

Total: $46.8 for 30 days.


Winter with heat averages about 100-200 kWh more per month on the usage side.


BC Hydro as far as I know has some of the lowest electric rates in North America, so I won't complain.

Baseboard heat is not my favorite, they don't seem to heat evenly, and do add a nice chunk to the bill in winter even at 68F, but we have huge glass windows in the living room, and bedroom and they don't seem to insulate well, lots of draft, and they don't heat the common hallways so there is a nice draft of cold air coming in the door seals, so probably doesn't help to keep the hot air in, and cold out.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

It probably depends on just how much heating is needed.

My duplex had individual thermostat controls on the baseboard heaters. Equalised payment for 3 rooms, plus kitchen and bathroom was $200 for cooking, heating, hot water and lights. Nothing else. Just for the upstairs floor.

Our detached house has 5 rooms plus kitchen and 2 bathrooms, all bigger. Equalised payments are $251 and pays for cooking, heating, hot water for a bigger household, and lights plus running of washer/dryer for the needs of four and the running of the AC for much of the summer.

For needs here, the heat pump/air con is far and away cheaper than baseboards.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Apartment dweller here, with baseboard heaters on individual (each room) thermostats.

Im feeling/reaping the benefits of the downstairs unit being occupied: I turned the heating on about a month later then usual this autumn, & have even turned it down, several notches & several times in my bedroom.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Benefit to being on the upper floors....

When we lived in a 2nd floor unit in the middle, there was a significant difference vs ground floor or 2nd floor with a parkade below.

we are technically on the 2nd floor now, but below us is vacant un-heated retail space, and boy do the floors get cold.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Hmm... I'm thinking how you could put Charlee to use apart from being cute..

She may need a little stretch :unsure:

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Here, in semi-rural Ontario, the fee is mainly for delivery, it's recently been reduced so we now pay about $180/month for fixed charges and $25 or so for the electricity consumed.

We have a woodstove backed up by a gas (propane) furnace, a gas stove and a gas clothes dryer. The water heater is electric because we were able to install that ourselves, a gas one would have been prohibitively expensive due to the installation cost. The well and sump pumps and the washing machine are electric, I suppose they're the biggest power consumers.

The power supply here is erratic so, like everyone else, we have a generator.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

No. No it is not. I've only heard the term "hydro" when in BC. Never in Alberta. Here we call it... electricity.

In answer to your other question, 3 story house, natural gas forced air heating, with in floor electric heating on all tiled floors.

Electric bill is pretty constant year round.

Natural Gas bill is non existent in the summer (in spite of daily used NG grill, 6 burner NG commercial stove, and NG on demand hot water boiler). In the winter the NG bill is formidable (NG fireplace, NG furnace, and a second NG furnace in the detached garage).

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

4 level split house in Edmonton.
Heating: Natural gas. (water heating as well).
Cost: $78 pm (budgeted amount set up with gas supplier)

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

My wife's family home in Moncton had a person resident who ran up heating (oil) bills of $800 pm some years ago. The bills were paid by the family out of the inheritance monies, she was not a beneficiary of the will. This was a real source of friction between trustees and beneficiaries (who are all siblings).

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

It is. The different is amazing (downstairs unit was vacant for the first couple years I lived here).

My remedy for cold floors is (woolly socks &) slippers, preferably "bootee" type ones which cover my ankles :).

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Same here, although part of the provincially owned, monopoly electricity generator is called NL Hydro & Hydro power accounts for both a signficant amount of current generation capacity & will be the stone that weighs Newfoundland electricity consumers down for a generation once Muskrat Falls (An ill judged and worse managed hydro project in Labrador) comes on line.

Electricity rates here are forecast to double and thats going to be a big problem in a province with low median incomes & a reliance on resource industries for employment. That resource boom over the past decade has lead to a boom in house construction with many McMansion style homes being built using electric radiation heat because its the cheapest install option. There are definitely going to be be people struggling when rates increase.

As a response, sales of woodstoves and air-to-air heatpumps have been skyrocketing with even a resurgence in oil fired heating. That's what we have - hot water radiation - and I'm glad thats the case. I am just about to pull the trigger on a heat pump set up for my 24x30ft garage as the best option to replace a dead oil furnace.

For comparison purposes our 2400 sq ft (incl developed basement) 3 bed place costs us $111 per month on a equal payment plan. Electricity consumption is primarily drier, underfloor heating in the en-suite, cooking and lighting. Oil consumption averages out somewhere around $300 a month across the year. We're not on an equal payment plan so generally don't have to buy oil between May & October.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

The folks where we are in ON certainly call the electricity "Hydro". The wires are held up by "Hydro Towers" since pylons are basically traffic cones - which wouldn't be high enough but would explain the exorbitant car insurance rates.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

For decades the quango responsible for generating the power was called Ontario Hydro, even though most of the power was nuclear. It's since been rebranded, privatized, unprivatised and generally ****ed with for reasons of ideology and personal greed but they still call the power "hydro" and it still (in the main) comes from nuclear plants.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Not guilty m'lud. :lol:

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Good one;)

The house was up for sale for over 6 years, needed some work. Even at $50,000 there were no offers. Demolished last year to avoid property taxes and insurance costs of $3000 per year.
Another property on the same street was also demolished for similar reasons.
Really bad market for property in Moncton.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/data:...BJRU5ErkJgggA=

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Some, by no means all.

I recently sold my duplex. The rental market's not good, although that's because loads of new apartment buildings have gone up.

I did actually have an agreed sale within 24 hours of seeing my realtor - although the buyer couldn't get his financing sorted. But it took about 2 and a half months and a reduced price.

A house over the back of me was available for about $70k and was sold within a month.

The real estate association reports increased sales on last year. It all seems fairly stable without peaks and troughs.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Wynne has held up her hands and stated she is responsible for the out of control Hydro bills in Ontario. But she has done nothing to correct the issue. I am paying $200 a month, of which approx $50 is actually usage and I heat with gas. But I do use my electric cooker and dishwasher and washer and dryer and had been using AC 24/7 over summer.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

We're all-electric and on three floors. A mixture of baseboard and convection heaters, washer, dryer, AC, hairdryer and curling iron, 220V vibrator etc.

The equalised Hydro Quebec bill I just paid was $124. Our monthly payments were reduced recently.

I can't complain (although HQ is government-owned, so I'm getting taxed to buggery elsewhere).

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Isn't it the watts, rather than the volts, that matters with vibrators?

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

I hadn't thought of that but I can see that size might be more important than speed.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

but it is the volts that make you jolt :)

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

And the size that brings on the sighs?

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

This is thread drift in spades!

It's not even a Friday.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Be interesting to hear from people in other provinces such as Manitoba and Saskatchewan. BC doesn't seem to be too bad. We're in a two-story 3-bedroom duplex with baseboard heaters. Along with all the usual electrically-powered gadgets (fridge, stove,washer, dryer, TV, computer etc.), our monthly bill averages about $50 but it rarely gets very cold here and we tend to keep the house fairly cool and wear sweaters and other warm clothes. Some places here have gas fireplaces but few have forced air furnaces. Our hydro bill here is a lot less than it was in Alberta.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Beware of apartments that are corner units (exposed to the elements), those wwith floor to ceiling windows, and especially to apartments that are above parking garages. If the floors are cement and not insulated, baseboard heating can become hugely expensive in winter months. Same with electric furnaces. Some condominiums now install individual meters per unit because hydro bills which once were included in maintenance/condo fees, have shot through the roof. It is frequent now for seniors on fixed incomes to sell their condos just because of the electric heating costs, and the future seems to hold further increases. Hydro management is yet another example of wasted resources plus huge+++ salaries paid out to those that should be managing.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

agree & I'm one that is really pi$$ed off about the high cost of utility bills

With the cooker, washer, dryer & dishwasher on electricity. Natural gas for hot water & heating. We do use the AC in summer, but turn it off when we go to bed leaving the furnace fan running

Here in Pickering back in 2013 we'd get an electricity bill every 90 days, then it became every 60 days, then in October this year from here on in its now every 30 days. Maybe Wynn's con job to try to fool us that the bills are not as high.

Since we became seniors, its more so about 'a penny saved' when possible & I track every bill

Just the two of us, the yearly electricity bill as follows

2012 $1383
2013 $1359 is when the wife started washing, dryer & dishwasher in off peak rates
2014 $1366
2015 $1588
2016 $1903
2017 $2025 estimate

The rise in charges have gone through the roof compared to our income.

Add to that Natural gas, water/sewer & property tax increases

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

In BC it's been the norm for a long time for unit residents to pay hydro, none of the buildings I have rented in included hydro, or anything beyond hot water and many don't even offer that anymore.

Pretty sure we don't have insulated floors and they are concrete and they are cold, and yes the baseboards struggle to even keep the place at 67F let alone any warmer.

The last day or so has been the first cold days and the electric use for yesterday is about double vs a more typical day, total monthly bill estimated at $80 based on current averages, so a nice chunk more then normal.

Luckily BC Hydro has fairly low rates, but if this winter is cold, electric bill might get a bit too high.

This apartment is poorly insulated and you can feel drafts of cold air, heaters set at 67F and struggle and we still are cold and bundled in warm clothing.

This unit sucks in winter for sure, the baseboards suck power like no tomorrow.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Anyone find inexplicable highs and lows?

I recently sold my duplex and it had been unoccupied since August to improve chances so the bills for a 2 bed/1 bed apartment have been in my name since.

Nothing on other than water heater and fridge/freezer for each apartment. Same size water heaters and fridge for the 2 bed is older.

Difficult to do a comparison for the first bills as the tenant for the 2 bed apt had been disconnected for non payment and I was lumbered with the reconnection fee even though I had registered on the province "landlord plan" that is supposed to protect the supply but appears to offer little advantage. (whinge, moan, bleat etc)

But it was about $30 and $23 for August.
Then $59 and $43 for September. Strange that it would go up like that for both apartments. I had a contractor in, so it's possible that used up power but what he did was mostly in the 1 bed unit.

Then $52 and $49 in October. The reduction in the first might make sense given definitely no power used compared to the previous month but the same should have applied to the 1 bed unit and it was slightly more.

Nothing to fuss over, but maybe the older fridge in the 2 bed is using power at a greater rate.

Here's the shock. Upon sale (and still no heating having been put on - I was about to do it and then suddenly there was a quick sale) the final bill covered 33 days so I wasn't surprised to see the $52 for October become $57.

But it was shocking to see $49 for the 1 bed become $104.

I checked the actual consumption and it was four times that of the previous month.

Any ideas why?

I took it up with the power company and they said they agreed it didn't look right and they'd investigate.

But the next day they confirmed it was 100% accurate and kept telling me that heating costs would likely make the difference - even though I had told them there was no heating on. Oh...and the two water heaters are both located in the basement so it's not as if one is exposed to conditions and the other not.

They then said that if heating was not off at the breaker switch then it would not truly be off - and I said that might account for moderate fluctuations but that maybe they should stop looking at the one bill in isolation and do a comparison for the two and explain why one apt had the lower bill for three months running and then suddenly went double the other one with 4 times the power used in the previous month.

I got nowhere and there's no provision for disputes like I've seen in other provinces (yay Alberta).

Closing was 5 days after the agreed price, so it's not like the buyer was in for a month using up power while the bill was still in my name.

Is it something daft like someone sees a for sale sign, observes a place is empty, finds an external power socket and plugs things in? :sneaky:

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

OMG I have just double checked what I have paid for the last year and that is nearly double. I suspect have a gas hob may help, but not sure by how much. I rarely use my electric oven but electric hobs I suspect going to cost more than gas hobs!

Note: I am based in Melbourne, Australia for the time being and still wondering after reading all these post's how Ontario can rip off customers with Hydro and car insurance costs. I have read enough to understand, but still makes me wonder!

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Yes, I too saw a sudden massive leap in Oakville Hydro charges for my parents 1 bedroom apartment (built in 1989). Hydro said everything was correct and that maybe I should change the fridge and stove, and lower the thermostat. So, furious with that, I kept the apartment VACANT (for 1 year)and unplugged everything. Still got over $100 per month hydro bills, even with newly installed individual meters! HYdro told me "its about time everyone paid the real costs"!!. What that tells me is that everyone was subsidized in Canada before and now the debts have to be paid....just as with pensions, health care, infrastructure. I truly fear for the future of the 15-30 year olds here in Canada. The bare necessities to live in this climate and vastness of this country are now out of range for them. Housing is expensive, transport is spotty, education is not the best for the prices, and now they say simple grocery needs are going up in 2017. Top it all with the only growth sectors being production and supply of mind altering substances, dollar stores and fast food!!. Bleak indeed for the timid.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

August's Hydro bill was $160.74. $64 of that was delivery, $24 on peak, $15 mid peak, $4 regulatory charges and $18 HST. We used more KWh than previously which is odd as we were trying to use less.
We have AC and an electric water heater, laundry is electric and all other gadgets save cooking which is gas.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

I wonder if that is true Canada wide on electric use (subsidized and paying true cost) or if just for some provinces.

Anyone know about BC Hydro?

Of the high cost of nearly everything, hydro in BC is still one of the least costly in Canada, only Quebec and Manitoba come in cheaper. Could be worse, look at the average in NY City.

https://www.bchydro.com/news/conserv...s-compare.html

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Apparently, and this is what Ive been told by Oakville Hydro in Ontario, the new meters systems have been upgraded to the latest technology. In previous decades, meters were never accurate and gave only an approximate usage record, they said!!!! I dont know.....it all sounds like the Volks Wagon saga....technology is set up to provide data they want, how they want it and when. More and more it becomes obvious that there are no oversights, independent and fair, of any utilities or major services. More concerning is what hydro companies can do by remote to your standard of living and quality of life, on a whim nowadays with the new technology.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Looking at the hydro website for the previous 2 days since the cold weather started (-3 currently was -5 overnight) with 2 baseboard (one living room, one in bedroom.) set at 68 in the day and 65 overnight, our daily use was 35 and 37 kWh, the days prior we were in the 15-24 kWh range.

Baseboards just don't seem to work well at keeping a place warm. But maybe forced air would struggle as well, who knows, never had forced air in Canada.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

Doors would help, being able to close off a room and warm that one makes a difference. That's the trouble with these open plan living areas. It's a reason to shove the tv in the bedroom and spend the evening in there, at least there's a door to close.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

one good suggestion, yet as to how much their electricity bill of $45 - $50/mth (see earlier in this thread) will drop over the winter is anyones guess

Since JS is on a very tight limited income to expenses, having cut out the cell phone, is already on minimal grocery bill, I suppose they could turn off the heat in all rooms other than the bedroom & live out the winter in it - using a small portable heater when they have to be in the kitchen or bathroom?

Days of old UK houses with a one room coal fireplace to heat the house, didn't work very well. An apartment had just one radiant bar heater that would heat about 50 sq'ft

BTW, I'm guessing where JS lives the temperatures in winter are a lot warmer than they are in other places across Canada.

JS, all the best to you trying to figure this one out

.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

:nod::nod:

We have two main rooms downstairs. One was probably a dining room once upon a time but the kitchen is big enough for a dining area and as with the people we bought from, the dining room is a second living room.

The biggest room is nice, light and airy but it's not nice, light and airy in winter. The front door opens into it - just like all those American sitcoms :lol: - and there are windows on the side and front. There's no door between it and the kitchen, just a doorway.

The woodstove is in that room and while it takes the chill of a bit, it's not really comfortable in there without some additional heating. And I mean additional to the vents from the heat pump.

At least not without cranking the heating up.

For the second or third winter we moved into the other room and decided to keep that as the main living room. It saved about $40 a month on equalised payments and we stopped using the woodstove so we saved on wood too. Well, firelogs for us.

Re: How's Your Hydro?
 

That is exactly what I am doing this afternoon, we are moving to the bedroom for the winter, then I can turn the living room down to 60F close the bedroom door and we can just hang out in there for winter.

The living room has laminate wood flooring, on top of concrete and based on the cold of the floor they didn't seem to put any insulation between the concrete and floor. Below us is empty commercial space, if it was rented and heated may not be so bad.

There is also a door from living room to patio, has weather strip all along it but is from what I can tell not very thick glass and if you stand near it you can feel the cold air coming though, same with the big living room window.

I think the baseboard may also be undersized for the space.

Bedroom is better as it has carpet so floor is warmer, has same size baseboard as living room despite being a fraction of the size.

Big glass window in there is no better, but being smaller, it does stay warmer and heater does go on and off as needed. Just drafty.


I can see why these condos had to be turned into rentals and could not be sold, so many issues in how they were built, and likely explains why nobody wants to buy the building.

Would help if the common hallway was heated as its an ice bucket out there and front door cold with a draft.

We moved here in the winter last year, but last winter was fairly warm and mild, never saw these low of temps.