How much was your pay cut?
 

I am being offered a 35% reduction in my current salary for the privelage of moving to Ontario, based on the current exchange rate (UK £ to CAN $). How much of a pay reduction has everyone else taken?

Secondly has anyone done a standard of living comparison for the UK to Canada. i.e. if you earn say £30/40/50k in the South East, how much you would need for Ontario to maintain the same standard of living? But the standard of living is supposed to be better isn't it? Thats the whole point surely?

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

we are lucky hubby's wage will be the same :)

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I wouldn't move for less than even money.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

likewise , he is doing the exact same job , so we asked for the exact same money , no problems , they wanted his experience.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Thats interesting. Canadian firms do try and talk prices down, like petrol being half the price that it is in the UK. But its only half the price if you get your same wage in the UK. I don't think the cost of living in Canada is as cheap as they make it out to be. I would be quite happy to save less money each month and enjoy a better lifestyle but I can't see the point of living in poverty in order to be in Canada.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

When I moved, in 2000, I went from £42k to zero and stayed that way for two years. We were able to live in Oakville on my partner's salary of about C$63k but we certainly weren't well-off.

My current salary is £37,500 (roughly C$80k). My partner makes about C$65k, which covers our mortgage (C$150k) and most of the bills.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

That didn't sound like much fun. I'm being offered around C$56k, which just seems woefully low. I'm supposed to be telling my wife and two kids that we will better our standard of living!

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

It need not necessarily be negative.
I went from (a measly) £15.5k to $50k.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I guess it can go the other way as well. I understand overall that Canada is not as expensive as the UK and therefore I would only accept around a 10% reduction. It's when you're setting up that you need the money the most. It's bad enough settling into a new culture without having to worry about the finances.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

In Oakville? I doubt it. I believe the average income there to be about C$80k, which is one of the highest in Canada.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

No, Petrol is really half the price. But you will have to drive twice as far to get anywhere, and with the average vehicle being about a 3.0l, you dont get UK economy anyway.


True, the cost of living is not what it once was here. Heating costs for one have increased enormously in recent years, and property costs in many places are rising fast. Insurance costs are not cheap either. Some things are cheaper, some are not. Unless you are coming with a lump sum to eliminate the mortgage costs, I dont think $56k will give you fantastic amounts of disposable income anywhere in canada anymore, and just making ends meet for a family might be about all you do. People get by on less, but Im sure they would prefer not to have to!

I get more than that (mid 60s), have a lowish mortgage and property taxes (~$800/month), but my house is not new, and my energy bills are not low, with two small kids we dont have much to spare..and thats with no car payments etc to worry about at the moment either.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I pay about $56k gross in alimony to someone who lives in a house a suburb of the GTA. She has one child at home (well for legal purposes, the child is actually with us but the mother nominally has custody) and no mortgage/rent to pay. She has some income from other sources, no more than $20k or so. We are currently before the courts in a tussle over whether or not I should pay for all her car related costs; her argument being that one must have a car to live there and one cannot afford to run a car on that income.

Obviously the claims made in family court are exaggerated but this one hasn't been laughed out. A judge is considering the idea that $56k+a house is poverty for two people. $56k and no free housing for four people would be very rough indeed.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

$56K in alimony ??? Crikes !!! :scared:

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

You're not in the GTA, that's why it's viable. The property taxes on my house are $463/month. On the one the "ex" lives in they're $800+.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

As with everything about Canada, generalisation can make comparisons meaningless. Earning $56k in one place can put you in a different comfort zone from $56k in another.

Comparing UK salary to Canadian salary is a bit meaningless IMHO. There are so many variables - for example I moved when the exchange rate was $2.35, so if I earned GBP 40k for argument sake I would be looking for $94k here. If the exchange rate is 2.1 or $2 as it was not so long ago I've 'lost' $10k so to speak!

The real questions are 'what is a fair salary for my job in the location I want/am prepare to live?' and 'Does that salary give me and mine the quality of life that I am looking for?' Location plays a tremendous part in this. F'r example a Materials Manager might make $80k in the GTA but I can tell you that in Newfoundland (outside the oil biz) the pay is considerably less. As a Materials Manager in St. John's I've accepted I am going to earn less than one living in the GTA. I am reasonably happy that my pay and benefits compare favourably with the market in my area though and since this is where I want to live it's something I have to put up with.*

I could spend my time fretting about the differences in pay between my last Uk job and now but it is a waste of time. Yes my first position in NL (more senior and better paid) was around 30% less than my UK salary (at that exchange rate, it would be 10% at todays exchange rate). Comparison of current position would be much worse. But again meaningless if you get my point.

* I moved to Newfoundland because of my wife. This makes my comparisons/goals/drivers different to someone moving to Canada as Skilled Worker/PNP etc. If I were a SW I would certainly be looking for 'better' lifestyle than UK, (so would to an extent agree with dbd33) otherwise why bother?!

So as ever the answer is research, research, research. And then make your own judgement as to what you and yours will be happy with.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

This sounds a similar situation to the UK, i.e earning say £33k and having a small mortgage of say £400, it wouldn't leave a large amount left over.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

The 2001 census data at http://www12.statcan.ca/english/prof...dex.cfm?Lang=E

will give you some idea of income and housing costs by location with Ontario averages.

Don't expect to get a mortgage of 10X income like you can in the UK though.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Well, yes, it very much depends on why you want to move. My line of thought is that a move from London to the GTA is a big step backwards in terms of intangibles; Toronto's uglier, it has no history and one has no family here, so it has to come with lots of stuff. If one is moving to be with family then fair enough but otherwise the lifestyle is only better if one has more money than at home.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Absolutely true.

I was thrilled to be getting $50k at first...till I found that other less able people, in this area doing the same job were on more than 10% more.

Anyway, there are some websites that offer standard of living comparison that might help the OP,
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/ser...199&internal=T


and there are sites that list what sort of salaries people get in an area

http://salary.monster.ca/

I wouldnt like to vouch for there accuracy.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Agree entirely. The only thing I've found in my (admittably short) time spent visiting TO that would make it worth spending more time there was peameal bacon and cask conditioned ale. ;)

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

That data is now 5+ years old. Property costs and my cost of living have both risen dramatically in that time... and not just cos we have a couple of kids now :(

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

True, but you probably wouldnt be paying over £100 a month for heating oil and £50 for electricity throughout the year:(

The cost of gas is an absolute thing, it costs so much per liter :confused: Its costs half as much per liter here, regardless of wage :confused: The exchange rate may go up and down, but you will be paid in CDN, so its irrelevent. I guess you are thinking about the cost as expressed as an annual percentage of your income? Gas is really a bad example to take for living expense comparison, as its not a level playing field in terms of the type of cars here and the distances driven. It might be a wash, but you will pay far more for insurance anyway

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Well according to this the average male earnt around $C68k in Oakville in 2000! So $56k ain't going to go nowhere.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Agreed, with your comment on gas. My original point was, that employers use the cost of gas as a selling point, whereas in reality you might end up spending more in Canada as a proportion of your income.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Just out of curiosity, can you write that off against tax?

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Yes, I've done plenty of research and was in Canada last week. If anything I think I am underestimating the overall cost of living in Canada. But it's always nice to get opinions from people already living in Canada.

If I got offered 90% of my current salary I would be over there like a shot. I do think that with the exception of housing the average cost of other day to day expenditure in the UK is similar to that in Canada now.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I had a great income in UK......now its NIL as gone back to do a postgrad course to re-licence here.

It will also take me a while to get anywhere near my old salary....but thats not our priorty. Our priorty was a better place to raise a family, more quality time etc etc....yes lower income but are we happier ..YES :beer:

As to comparison in cost of living....virtualy impossible...yes things appear cheaper...but you use more petrol, houses are bigger and winters are colder so utility bills are high, we are doing more activities than in the uk so bills are higher!

Also Oakville is not cheap....but then we used to pay Private school fees in London which we feel is not necessary here.

I think it will be a struggle on that income for a while (esp in Oakville) but depends ultimately on how you measure quality of life...earnings is a factor but there are many other factors to consider too.

All the best
Mans

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

That's the gross figure. I actually pay about $3,500/month in cash which the lawyers/accountants deem to be about the same as $56,000 in the hands of the recipient. Obviously it costs me a great deal more than that as the $3,500 is taxed at my marginal rate and the $56,000 assumes taxation at the base rate. It's to avoid the tax that I provide stuff in kind; like the use of the house and the, now contentious, car, insurance and petrol.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

No mate, I'm afraid it won't.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Sounds like us - I earn a good salary at moment - likely this will be reduced by 2/3 in real terms until I requalify - but going into it with eyes wide open and will try to refrain from begging unless absolutely necessary (if Butch won't allow my family to sleep in his basement :p )

You pays your money and takes your pick :) :D

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Most has already been said before, so I won't harp on, but just consider the differences between "cost of living", "standard of living" and "quality of life", then as others say, research and decide what you want for you and yours.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

-35% ! I'd tell them to stick it.
Ontario is NOT cheap.
Are they paying for your move?

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

You will need money to fund this "Lifestyle" END OF !!

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Majj

$56K seems pretty low to live in an urban area. Ask yourself would you work for ₤28k in say near London?
I would ask myself if the job in Canada is lower paid than its equivalent in the UK. Are you being low balled? Look at Monster board in Canada and UK to get comparisons in your area of work. It not uncommon practice to offer lower salaries to immigrants. I have experienced this myself and a couple of times had argued with the HR department because the salaries being offered to immigrant candidate engineers were $10-$15k lower.

These are cost for a family of 2.2 in Ontario to give you some cost

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil16d.htm

I lived in rural Ontario for 6 years and been back living in Oxfordshire for a year now.
I have been tracking our costs since we returned and found that we spend less in the UK than in Canada on general living expensive, but cost more for leisure i.e eating out, bowling, swimming etc.
We only do a less than third of the annual mileage now. We are finding our heating & electricity, food, car running costs, car & home insurance, property taxes are lower.
But our rent now is nearly double our Canadian mortgage (which was more than we had when we left the UK in 1997).
Fast food, hotels, leisure activities, toys, DIY tools etc and some lower quality goods are cheaper in Canada.
As previous said petrol is half UK price, but it is not uncommon to double your annual mileage in less efficient vehicles.
We drive a diesel car now as well so we actually spend half on travel compared to when we were in Canada.

I hired 4 engineers from the UK from 2002-04, aged 30-37 years old. UK salaries were 34-39k in pounds we paid them 70-80k in dollars if that helps you.

I would look at where you plan to live in Ontario at housing costs, property taxes, heating/electricity bill, car insurance etc to make an assessment if the move worth it.

hudd

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

We (family of five) started on $55K (CDN) THIRTEEN years ago in Calgary! It was 'ok' then, but not great - and at that time, Calgary WAS considerably cheaper to live than Toronto.

Edit to add - just did some checking; it was about a 45% cut for us. :eek: Hadn't given it much thought, til now......

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I would have to go back nearly 8 years last time I was earning £27/28k.

I can relate to £34-39k in 2002 to 2004 and similarily would expect something closer to $C80k. The offer has been increased, but I still don't think it is worth it.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

Its a crazy idea, but tell em! They have a lot of time and expense invested in finding you. If they could find someone local , they probably would have. Tell them what it will take to get you there, give them good reasons why their current offer is not attractive enough (either cos you are worth $X to their business, or cos you have done your research into the cost of living and its not enough to get you ahead of where you are now)

Be nice about it, and you might be surprised how little they want to go through the hassle of finding another candidate when they have already decided on you.

Really, this is the only time in employer/ employee negotiations when you have the upper hand. Right now they want you, and you dont really want them for what they are offering.

You need to be nice and intelegent about it though, and give them good reasons why its not enough. If they move, great, if not, well, it wasnt enough money anyway, so nothing lost.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I agree with iaink - if you've no intention of taking the offer in it's present form - then push them! You've nothing to lose, and everything to gain.:)

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

I agree you are right to expect C$80K if you believe thats appropiate pay for you level of expertise and experience.
When I was hiring in 2002-2004 I was paying 46-50k for graduate engineer, $65-70k for 5-10 years experience, engineer(15 years+ $78K-$85k). Senior Engineer with more than 20 years experience $90-$95K.

I came back to the UK with 18 years experience in plant operations and management and got base salary of £53k. Plant managers in Ontario would expect to make double that in dollars.

Re: How much was your pay cut?
 

We live in Peterborough (north-east of Toronto). My hubby is a Software Engineer, he earns C$101000 a year. I am a housewife (we have 2 kids), so that is our only income. We only have 1 car and as 15 year old house ($1000 a month payment on house). We think if we must move to the GTA, $101000 will not be enough for us to have the same life as we had at the moment in Peterborough.