How long?
Aug 6th 2004, 1:22 am
#16
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
Re: How long?
Answers intermixed as you scroll down...can never figure out how to set the text on this ting...grrr
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In the workplace, is there a glass ceiling for immigrants? What percentage of immmigrants NEVER make it back to the same seniority they achieved before they moved?
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Nine years on and I am just getting close, still not management as I was. Also bored out of my head most days.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do the children of immigrants (ie those coming to Canada during elementary years) have a lower rate of entry to university? Do they get to go to the 'best' universities or the 'second' tier? Or not at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My eldest is looking at Universities for the near future. I cannot afford to send her to McGill where she wanted to go - until she saw the courses on offer in the UK. She is now going back when she graduates, will upgrade her Grade 12 to GSCE A level standard as it is so far below it, and go to Uni in the UK.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do children born overseas have to declare that forever on a resume? If so, does it matter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My kids are dual citizens. They can say whatever they want!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do children born overseas have the same success rates when applying for a scholarship? Does the elementary school/high school attended carry any weight in these situations?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO - ref success rates, absolutely not in the West anyway. I have watched rich families from certain immigrant communities in Vancouver pay their way in - large donations to certain colleges gives you a campus that bears your name and opens the door for your own community. The rest sit on the sidelines.
Good schools (private) do open doors, as you meet people who know people. The shakers and movers as it were.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is networking an issue for scholarship applications in the same way it is for employment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes - and anyone who tells you different has their head in a bucket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, the things we are questioning are slightly bigger than 'where can I get chocolate?'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The chocolate thing is less of an issue than missing a good curry. I have nagging doubts every day of my life about being here. I am nearly into my ninth year and they have not gone away. I do not want to be an old person with no money in the UK though....a quandry for sure.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the workplace, is there a glass ceiling for immigrants? What percentage of immmigrants NEVER make it back to the same seniority they achieved before they moved?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nine years on and I am just getting close, still not management as I was. Also bored out of my head most days.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do the children of immigrants (ie those coming to Canada during elementary years) have a lower rate of entry to university? Do they get to go to the 'best' universities or the 'second' tier? Or not at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My eldest is looking at Universities for the near future. I cannot afford to send her to McGill where she wanted to go - until she saw the courses on offer in the UK. She is now going back when she graduates, will upgrade her Grade 12 to GSCE A level standard as it is so far below it, and go to Uni in the UK.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do children born overseas have to declare that forever on a resume? If so, does it matter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My kids are dual citizens. They can say whatever they want!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do children born overseas have the same success rates when applying for a scholarship? Does the elementary school/high school attended carry any weight in these situations?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO - ref success rates, absolutely not in the West anyway. I have watched rich families from certain immigrant communities in Vancouver pay their way in - large donations to certain colleges gives you a campus that bears your name and opens the door for your own community. The rest sit on the sidelines.
Good schools (private) do open doors, as you meet people who know people. The shakers and movers as it were.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is networking an issue for scholarship applications in the same way it is for employment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes - and anyone who tells you different has their head in a bucket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, the things we are questioning are slightly bigger than 'where can I get chocolate?'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The chocolate thing is less of an issue than missing a good curry. I have nagging doubts every day of my life about being here. I am nearly into my ninth year and they have not gone away. I do not want to be an old person with no money in the UK though....a quandry for sure.
Last edited by dingbat; Aug 6th 2004 at 1:26 am.
Aug 6th 2004, 1:45 am
#17
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
Originally posted by lizwil98
Hmmmm let me think. I have been in Canada since 1968 - that makes it 36 years. I guess I think of Canada as home, but things have changed so drastically in England over the past 36 years. When we first came to Canada things were much different in England but so far as I can tell, things have caught up and now things seem to be the same - England has caught up with us in lots of things.
Hmmmm let me think. I have been in Canada since 1968 - that makes it 36 years. I guess I think of Canada as home, but things have changed so drastically in England over the past 36 years. When we first came to Canada things were much different in England but so far as I can tell, things have caught up and now things seem to be the same - England has caught up with us in lots of things.
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....if you had perhaps lived in the UK in the last fifteen years the disparity between the two would be really evident. When you moved in 1968, England still offered the quaint "Heartbeat" type of life or the London sixties life if you were into all that. After the labour dispute years of the seventies things changed drastically. The UK became far more cosmopolitan, travel was cheap and the population mobile. During and after the reign of Herr Thatcher, the UK became one of the world leaders with social policy innovation and a market driven economy. Canada is still in the dark ages where the former is concerned and leaves a lot to be desired with its protectionist policies and bureaucratic overload where the latter is concerned. The UK caught up and left Canada behind a long long time ago. Just my opinion.
Aug 6th 2004, 1:57 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by dingbat
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....Canada is still in the dark ages
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....Canada is still in the dark ages
I'm very concerned about my kids' prospects right now - university is something that worries me.
I think Canada is entering the late "1980's" about now - when you needed a degree to get a trainee manager's job at Sainsbury's.
I wonder where they will be in 10 years time?
Aug 6th 2004, 2:04 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by dingbat
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....
Aug 6th 2004, 2:05 am
#20
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
Originally posted by Glaswegian
Except dentistry.
Except dentistry.
Aug 6th 2004, 2:12 am
#22
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Originally posted by dingbat
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....if you had perhaps lived in the UK in the last fifteen years the disparity between the two would be really evident. When you moved in 1968, England still offered the quaint "Heartbeat" type of life or the London sixties life if you were into all that. After the labour dispute years of the seventies things changed drastically. The UK became far more cosmopolitan, travel was cheap and the population mobile. During and after the reign of Herr Thatcher, the UK became one of the world leaders with social policy innovation and a market driven economy. Canada is still in the dark ages where the former is concerned and leaves a lot to be desired with its protectionist policies and bureaucratic overload where the latter is concerned. The UK caught up and left Canada behind a long long time ago. Just my opinion.
Canada is SO far behind in MOST things.....if you had perhaps lived in the UK in the last fifteen years the disparity between the two would be really evident. When you moved in 1968, England still offered the quaint "Heartbeat" type of life or the London sixties life if you were into all that. After the labour dispute years of the seventies things changed drastically. The UK became far more cosmopolitan, travel was cheap and the population mobile. During and after the reign of Herr Thatcher, the UK became one of the world leaders with social policy innovation and a market driven economy. Canada is still in the dark ages where the former is concerned and leaves a lot to be desired with its protectionist policies and bureaucratic overload where the latter is concerned. The UK caught up and left Canada behind a long long time ago. Just my opinion.
Aug 6th 2004, 2:16 am
#23
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
Originally posted by iaink
Personally, with the exception of labour reform I hate what happened to Britain in the 80s and early 90s. It created a materialistic, uncaring, "me first" generation that I am glad to get away from. The longer it takes Canada to "catch up" the better as far as I am concerned.
Personally, with the exception of labour reform I hate what happened to Britain in the 80s and early 90s. It created a materialistic, uncaring, "me first" generation that I am glad to get away from. The longer it takes Canada to "catch up" the better as far as I am concerned.
Aug 6th 2004, 2:26 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How long?
Nice side discussion, but off the original topic - I'm not concerned
about the rise and fall of Thatcherite Britain right now - it's history
:cool:
I'm going to talk to my boss tomorrow about my concerns about
my job - I'm a 14 year IT veteran and I was asked to shadow someone
with 5 years IT experience who's done one project on something that
I've got seven years experience in.
I need to feel I'm in with a
chance of a decent future in Canada if I want to present a good pitch
to keep my job.
--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com
about the rise and fall of Thatcherite Britain right now - it's history
:cool:
I'm going to talk to my boss tomorrow about my concerns about
my job - I'm a 14 year IT veteran and I was asked to shadow someone
with 5 years IT experience who's done one project on something that
I've got seven years experience in.
I need to feel I'm in with a
chance of a decent future in Canada if I want to present a good pitch
to keep my job.
--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Aug 6th 2004, 7:18 am
#26
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 998
Thoughts on Choice
I am sure you do not want my thoughts as perhaps you took offence when no offence was intended.
There are 3.5 million UK residents in Canada alone. There are therefore probably 10 million between Australia, USA, Canada and Europe. There are expected to be a further 6+ million by the year 2200 living as expats or as newly nationalised into their chosen countries of destination. Thats about a quarter of the current 56 million people in the UK.
Happiness does not come from a University education. Because my children have just about grown up, they have had their fair share of problems. A good deal created by the environment they are in. The UK is a safe place?
Education is a means to an end. The end being personal happiness and safety. If your kids are better off in a safer environment but maybe with a lower salary - does it matter - cost of living is much lower. Its happiness that counts in the long run. Look at the UK in 1980 - look at in now. Guess what it will be like in 2024. The service industry is the back-bone now of the economy. This sector will continue to be taken to cheaper countries where labour costs are lower and as the world becomes ever smaller the pace will increase. The corporates do not give a flying fart about Mr Average in the UK.
If Canada does not hold the answers go somewhere else. Try France, try New Zealand. Like you have done, your children will make their own minds up where they want to be. All you can do is give them a happy environment within which to have their childhood. It is over in a blink of an eye. Enjoy it while you can and if you have more time to spend with them its a blessing - not a curse.
As far as being up or down the ladder professionally that should have been thought about before you went. Maybe a change of profession is in order. And anyway I have been to the top and bottom and you cannot know for sure which way you are going. Other people decide that. The money (real money) people.
You once said in one of your comments that don't expect to go to Canada and pick up where you left off. Are you trying to do this yourself?
I am envoius that you have been given the opportunity to do what you are doing. Look at the forum. Look at all the people waiting on your every word.
They want out and you want back in. Or something else maybe. Perhaps ask why you are there in the first place - the real reason.
There are 3.5 million UK residents in Canada alone. There are therefore probably 10 million between Australia, USA, Canada and Europe. There are expected to be a further 6+ million by the year 2200 living as expats or as newly nationalised into their chosen countries of destination. Thats about a quarter of the current 56 million people in the UK.
Happiness does not come from a University education. Because my children have just about grown up, they have had their fair share of problems. A good deal created by the environment they are in. The UK is a safe place?
Education is a means to an end. The end being personal happiness and safety. If your kids are better off in a safer environment but maybe with a lower salary - does it matter - cost of living is much lower. Its happiness that counts in the long run. Look at the UK in 1980 - look at in now. Guess what it will be like in 2024. The service industry is the back-bone now of the economy. This sector will continue to be taken to cheaper countries where labour costs are lower and as the world becomes ever smaller the pace will increase. The corporates do not give a flying fart about Mr Average in the UK.
If Canada does not hold the answers go somewhere else. Try France, try New Zealand. Like you have done, your children will make their own minds up where they want to be. All you can do is give them a happy environment within which to have their childhood. It is over in a blink of an eye. Enjoy it while you can and if you have more time to spend with them its a blessing - not a curse.
As far as being up or down the ladder professionally that should have been thought about before you went. Maybe a change of profession is in order. And anyway I have been to the top and bottom and you cannot know for sure which way you are going. Other people decide that. The money (real money) people.
You once said in one of your comments that don't expect to go to Canada and pick up where you left off. Are you trying to do this yourself?
I am envoius that you have been given the opportunity to do what you are doing. Look at the forum. Look at all the people waiting on your every word.
They want out and you want back in. Or something else maybe. Perhaps ask why you are there in the first place - the real reason.
Last edited by SANDRAPAUL; Aug 6th 2004 at 9:24 am.
Aug 6th 2004, 7:39 am
#27
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,152
Originally posted by Glaswegian
I think Canada is entering the late "1980's" about now - when you needed a degree to get a trainee manager's job at Sainsbury's.
I think Canada is entering the late "1980's" about now - when you needed a degree to get a trainee manager's job at Sainsbury's.
Aug 6th 2004, 9:46 am
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,062
Originally posted by Glaswegian
I think Canada is entering the late "1980's" about now - when you needed a degree to get a trainee manager's job at Sainsbury's.
I wonder where they will be in 10 years time?
I think Canada is entering the late "1980's" about now - when you needed a degree to get a trainee manager's job at Sainsbury's.
I wonder where they will be in 10 years time?
Has the north of England advanced to the same extent?
Aug 6th 2004, 10:59 am
#29
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,062
Originally posted by iaink
Personally, with the exception of labour reform I hate what happened to Britain in the 80s and early 90s. It created a materialistic, uncaring, "me first" generation that I am glad to get away from. The longer it takes Canada to "catch up" the better as far as I am concerned.
Personally, with the exception of labour reform I hate what happened to Britain in the 80s and early 90s. It created a materialistic, uncaring, "me first" generation that I am glad to get away from. The longer it takes Canada to "catch up" the better as far as I am concerned.
Me too. I'll pass on paying high property prices for a place the size of my garage and driving a car the size of a golf cart on roads that move as fast as a Canadian Tire parking lot.
If that's progress I'll take backward Canada any day.
Last edited by flashman; Aug 6th 2004 at 11:33 am.
Aug 6th 2004, 11:26 am
#30
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Posts: 61,698
Re: How long?
Originally posted by dingbat
Answers intermixed as you scroll down...can never figure out how to set the text on this ting...grrr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the workplace, is there a glass ceiling for immigrants? What percentage of immmigrants NEVER make it back to the same seniority they achieved before they moved?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nine years on and I am just getting close, still not management as I was. Also bored out of my head most days.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do the children of immigrants (ie those coming to Canada during elementary years) have a lower rate of entry to university? Do they get to go to the 'best' universities or the 'second' tier? Or not at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My eldest is looking at Universities for the near future. I cannot afford to send her to McGill where she wanted to go - until she saw the courses on offer in the UK. She is now going back when she graduates, will upgrade her Grade 12 to GSCE A level standard as it is so far below it, and go to Uni in the UK.
I'm curious, (or nosey) did your daughter try to find funding to assist her in attending McGill - there are so many "different types of funding" these days to help kids attend university, OR was it more that she just really wanted to return to the UK?
As far, as our educational level being below the UK standards - I guess it depends on the field. We do a tremendous amount of "international consulting" work - competing against many European, US and other countries - and have done very well with only our Canadian university education. In fact, my partner/I just came back from a consulting job in Germany - on a waste management/eco system project. When we are awarded the job we are told time and time again that we are the most qualified. Please don't take this as bragging- it's not meant that way at all -I just wanted to point out that someone having a Canadian university education can still be VERY COMPETITIVE in the world market.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do children born overseas have to declare that forever on a resume? If so, does it matter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My kids are dual citizens. They can say whatever they want!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do children born overseas have the same success rates when applying for a scholarship? Does the elementary school/high school attended carry any weight in these situations?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO - ref success rates, absolutely not in the West anyway. I have watched rich families from certain immigrant communities in Vancouver pay their way in - large donations to certain colleges gives you a campus that bears your name and opens the door for your own community. The rest sit on the sidelines.
Good schools (private) do open doors, as you meet people who know people. The shakers and movers as it were.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is networking an issue for scholarship applications in the same way it is for employment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes - and anyone who tells you different has their head in a bucket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, the things we are questioning are slightly bigger than 'where can I get chocolate?'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The chocolate thing is less of an issue than missing a good curry. I have nagging doubts every day of my life about being here. I am nearly into my ninth year and they have not gone away. I do not want to be an old person with no money in the UK though....a quandry for sure.
Answers intermixed as you scroll down...can never figure out how to set the text on this ting...grrr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the workplace, is there a glass ceiling for immigrants? What percentage of immmigrants NEVER make it back to the same seniority they achieved before they moved?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nine years on and I am just getting close, still not management as I was. Also bored out of my head most days.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do the children of immigrants (ie those coming to Canada during elementary years) have a lower rate of entry to university? Do they get to go to the 'best' universities or the 'second' tier? Or not at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My eldest is looking at Universities for the near future. I cannot afford to send her to McGill where she wanted to go - until she saw the courses on offer in the UK. She is now going back when she graduates, will upgrade her Grade 12 to GSCE A level standard as it is so far below it, and go to Uni in the UK.
I'm curious, (or nosey) did your daughter try to find funding to assist her in attending McGill - there are so many "different types of funding" these days to help kids attend university, OR was it more that she just really wanted to return to the UK?
As far, as our educational level being below the UK standards - I guess it depends on the field. We do a tremendous amount of "international consulting" work - competing against many European, US and other countries - and have done very well with only our Canadian university education. In fact, my partner/I just came back from a consulting job in Germany - on a waste management/eco system project. When we are awarded the job we are told time and time again that we are the most qualified. Please don't take this as bragging- it's not meant that way at all -I just wanted to point out that someone having a Canadian university education can still be VERY COMPETITIVE in the world market.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do children born overseas have to declare that forever on a resume? If so, does it matter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My kids are dual citizens. They can say whatever they want!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming equal ability, do children born overseas have the same success rates when applying for a scholarship? Does the elementary school/high school attended carry any weight in these situations?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO - ref success rates, absolutely not in the West anyway. I have watched rich families from certain immigrant communities in Vancouver pay their way in - large donations to certain colleges gives you a campus that bears your name and opens the door for your own community. The rest sit on the sidelines.
Good schools (private) do open doors, as you meet people who know people. The shakers and movers as it were.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is networking an issue for scholarship applications in the same way it is for employment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes - and anyone who tells you different has their head in a bucket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, the things we are questioning are slightly bigger than 'where can I get chocolate?'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The chocolate thing is less of an issue than missing a good curry. I have nagging doubts every day of my life about being here. I am nearly into my ninth year and they have not gone away. I do not want to be an old person with no money in the UK though....a quandry for sure.