House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

hi all,
What is the process for buying a house in Ontario? (Cash buyers ). How do you find properties? Please can anyone help me understand the steps involved?

Are there any Rightmove/Zoopla comparable sites?

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

In its simplest format

1. Find house for sale (vast majority advertised by realty companies) some found on Kijiji, Craigslist (potential scams) grocery store notice boards. Usually a sign outside the property For Sale contact X.
2. Arrange viewing, negotiate a price and then hire a real estate lawyer pay everybody and get legal documents for possession date.
3. Move in.
4. Job done.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Finding a house : Is there a website that aggregates listings?

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Yes. Here it is: Realtor.ca

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

That's not usual though. Typically two agents will be involved. One of them nominally represents the buyer though both are paid by the seller. All the houses on the mls site mentioned are tied into contracts with estate agents. Alternative sales sites can be found by googling property guys, for sale by owner, or fsbo.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Loads of wiki articles on house buying in Canada here:

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Category:Housing-Canada

Yes, of course Realtor.ca, but be careful as there are several 'property hot spots' in Canada where it is normal to advertise a low-ish price and ask for all offers in two weeks, the house then normally goes for 10 - 20% more than the advertised price. Certainly true at the moment in London ON where houses don't stay on the market more that 2 weeks and if they do, there is a reason.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Do you have Permanent Residency now? Do bear in mind the additional taxes that may have to be paid if you are not a permanent resident or Citizen and buying property. (Non Resident Speculation Tax) https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/bulletins/nrst/ .. unsure if it would apply to you but I personally wouldn't be looking at properties unless you have PR status or are almost at the end of the process to PR...
There are many costs involved in both buying and selling houses - including taxes by the Govt should you not remain in Canada. If you don't yet have PR nor pretty much a guarantee of being granted it in the foreseeable future it would be risky to a) sell your property in the UK and b) buy a property in Canada... particularly if you will only be here on a TWP. Also, similar to Scotland, offers in writing are normally legally binding.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Also note Ontario is rather a large Province. Much cheaper to buy in Thunder Bay than Toronto though might be the same as buying in Windsor. Have you narrowed it down a bit?

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Still haven't given us a clue as to where in Ontario as prices will differ vastly in some areas.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Waterloo/Kitchener area

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

KW area is particularly 'hot' and has been for a couple of years and unlikely to change (overflow from Toronto money). Be prepared for a house to be marketed for an open day at a weekend with all formal offers by the following Tuesday. Many of the competing bids will be without any conditions, so if you want a survey, get an informal one done at your own cost first. Also be prepared for the house to go for at least 10% over the asking price. We had this when we bought our house in London ON in September 2018, finally got one after being outbid on three others after we put in a condition free bid with an 'escalator' clause.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

The house buying process in Canada is completely different from England (although similar in many respects to the Scottish system, not that this analogy will help you if you are used to London UK!). But to try to compare it with English house buying steps you might be familiar with try this:

Find a house
You pick your own 'buying' Realtor (estate agent). They work for YOU, a bit like 'Kirstie and Phil' in Location, Location, Location. They get paid by splitting the fees (usually around 4%) that the seller pays their agent, so as a buyer, you don't pay. Your Realtor will get to know you and what you want, then do the looking for you. They will set up all the viewings and pick you up and drive you to many viewings in a day or afternoon or whatever. They show you around and are generally very knowledgeable and can point out stuff that might need doing that you would not think of (if the roof is on it's last legs as these often need replacing every 20 years, old windows etc.).

Make a 'conditional' or even 'non-conditional' offer
This is a bit like the offer you make through a UK estate agent, but a lot more formal. You will normally state the deposit you will offer (usually 10%) and the date you want to move in (often 1 - 2.5 months ahead). The offer is also normally for a set period of time, usually hours or a couple of days, giving the seller time to either accept or counter-offer. You can then counter the counter-offer etc - this is the 'haggling' part. Depending on the number of counter-offers, the haggling bit is normally resolved to either acceptance or decline in a few days at most. You will also state in the offer the timescale for any conditions - usually 1 or 2 weeks max. If you have specified 'conditions', if / when your offer is accepted, you must do what is necessary to resolve those conditions (e.g. you could say subject to survey, then you have to get the survey done in a week - not a problem in Canada as people are used to short timescales. Note that in hot property markets, often sellers will not consider anything other than unconditional offers and even then, give a deadline date by which they will consider all offers at one time.

Offer accepted
If you make a non-conditional offer, then if / when the seller accepts, that is it - you have then in effect 'exchanged' and you are committed.
If you make a conditional offer and the seller accepts, then the clock is running for you to satisfy your conditions or back out due to failure of a stated condition (i.e. you had the survey done and are unhappy with the report etc.).
At the stated end date of the offer, if the seller has accepted and you have not pulled out for reason of failure of conditions, then you MUST pay the deposit to the sellers agent's escrow account. This is in effect equivalent to 'exchange of contracts' except that you already know the completion date as it was in the original offer.

Completion / Move In
You complete and must hand over the money in full on the completion date stated in the original offer document. You will get your lawyer to handle this aspect.

Note
Realtors in Canada d a lot more than Estate Agents in England. Conversely, lawyers do a lot less in Canada than in England. The whole process in Canada is MUCH faster with more certainty. The process in England is archaic, broken and set up to fail IMHO! What happens in weeks or months in England happens in days in Canada! Offer documents are normally signed electronically, so there is no post. Offers can be decided in minutes or hours.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Which is why (allegedly) realtors in Canada charge 4-6% of selling price to the seller vs. 1% or so in the UK. Your buying realtor will split the commission with the selling realtor. Worth understanding that.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Having gone through 2 purchases in Canada and 1 sale, I'm not totally convinced that they do a helluva lot more than agents in the UK, certainly not 3-5% commission more at any rate.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Got to ditto this comment -

OP - Buying cash you will be holding a lot of power
Don't be bullied by an agent to offer more than you want to offer
Upon offer you enter a contract - deal can be done on your initial offer - if your offer is accepted, which will include not only the price, but will include (or not) the washer, dryer, fridge, stove, shed, hot tub, pool equipment, lawn mower, and whatever else you include or not.

Upon acceptance you'll have your moving date - All you need to do now is complete your obligations of being able to get insurance (issues with Oil especially if the tank is in the basement) - Financing - Any home inspection etc.

Our first house in Canada we were scared of losing it and were told "Need to put in a best and final offer as there are other offers" - We were hassled to pay above asking price and I refused to do that. We were buying Cash, no conditions with 30 closing (move in) - turns out the other buyers had property to sell and we could have offered less and still got the property.

In 12yrs I have bought and sold 4 houses and getting the real estate agents worked out - Money for old rope, but I would not risk "the property guys" and private sellers just yet.

It's a very easy process and the agents will guide you - Choose your agent by calling the listing agent of a house and see how you get on - You may not buy the house they are selling but you might like them as an agent - Or do the same with another agent and see how you go

You can have the same agent selling as you are using as a buyer - They just get a buddy to "help you out" with the paperwork to avoid a conflict .

Good luck - It'll all fall into place - and sooooo easy !!!

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

In the very hot Seller's market that the GTA has enjoyed over the past couple of years (slowing now) then the Sellers agents have had a reasonably easy time of it. However navigating your way through a multiple offer situation without upsetting someone and getting yourself reported is not that easy. Any sales representative from your brokerage (and there can be 100s of reps in a brokerage) with an offer has to be disclosed to other agents with offers. You need to know and disclose the exact number of offers to all interested parties - that sounds easy but people decide at the last minute not to send in an offer which is already registered and so now you have one less than you said, or one comes in at the very last minute and now you have one more. Trying to ensure that the process is as fair as possible can be an absolute nightmare.

On the other side of that in the hot market we have had working as a buyer's agent is a LOT of work. In 2016 and 2017 throughout the entire GTA it was not unusual to have to put in 5+ offers per client before you actually got them a house. Offer presentations often would run until midnight and the buyer's agents tend to wait around until the end of the process in case they are needed to modify the paperwork. Usually you wait in your car - in the winter its freezing and downright unpleasant. At the end of that you then have to call your client and tell them that yet again they didn't get the house because someone just paid $50k more than any appraisal could possibly value it at. They often cry and you have to deal with that even though you want to cry too. Eventually they decide they will rent because they can't take the stress anymore, and you can't blame them. So after months of searching with them, several freezing nights on the street in your car during offer nights you earn not a single penny.

Occasionally there is an easy transaction, a couple of trips out and they find the house they want to buy and get it on the first offer - those people probably think its 'money for old rope' but most transactions do not go that smoothly - in 9 years - I have had one that would fall in that category and even then when I called to put the offer in I found out that there had been a murder in the house some years before so had to spend several hours trying to research exactly what happened so the buyers could decide whether it bothered them or not.

UK estate agents don't do any of that. Nor do they write the actual contract for the Purchase, which significantly reduces their liability should anything go wrong with the sale

The above assumes you actually have clients, and doesn't touch on the incredible competition between agents to get listings and buyer clients. Meanwhile brokerage fees (up to $1000 per month), marketing fees (piece of string), MLS fees (~ $3000 per year), insurance and continuing education fees have to be paid regardless of any business you do.

On the positive side, I have met a lot of lovely people and many of my clients have ended up being friends.
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Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

Sometimes you have no choice when purchasing especially if a brand new build as the vast majority are sold by the developer via a real estate agent. You do have a choice when selling not to use an agent or using one of the newer non traditional companies that will charge a flat fee.

Re: House buying - Canada (ON) vs UK (London)
 

I didn't know you when we bought the house in Guelph. We found it and arranged everything. There was a listing agent so the choice was to let her have all the commission or to gift half of it to someone uninvolved. We did the latter so, by the time he heard that there was a transaction, he was being paid for it. An easy day for him.





otoh he held a great number of open houses at another property I had and many times no one came. The gifted commission was really for that.