Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Aug 15th 2005, 6:34 pm
#16
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Nr Belleville, Ontario
Posts: 565
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Does anyone know anything about Red Deer, Alberta area. We would not want to live in the actual town, but possibly the surrounding area.
Jane
Jane
Aug 15th 2005, 9:07 pm
#17
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Post 1 of 3
Thanks for explaining your thinking, Jane. That's helpful.
Fair enough. Alberta certainly will be able to give you that.
If you need to travel for business, or even if you just want to have holidays back in the UK or have family members visit you in Alberta, Calgary would offer you the most non-stop flights destinations in the United States and Europe. It has fewer offerings in that regard than Toronto does, but it offers the best selection in Alberta. Next best, from that point of view, is Edmonton.
I don't know what your definition of "reasonable weather" is. You've stated that you like the idea of four distinct seasons. Edmonton's weather is more consistent than Calgary's, albeit Edmonton's cold spells last for longer than Calgary's do.
Calgary is at a high elevation, in a transitional zone between the prairies and the mountains. Throughout the year mountain weather can push east as far as Calgary, and can bring snow. We've lived in Calgary since 1977 (except for a four-year gap when we went on back-to-back expat assignments to Houston and Melbourne). During our years in Calgary we've experienced snow as late as June and as early as August. It even has snowed in July while we've lived here, but we didn't witness it ourselves, because we happened to be away when it fell. Since weather records have been kept Calgary has experienced snow on every single day of the day (but not all in the same year!).
Conversely, the warm Chinook winds punctuate our winters with spring-like weather for a few days at a time. The most dramatic example I’ve witnessed was one New Year’s Eve. We went to a party at friends’ home. When we got there at 8.30 p.m. it was – 40 deg C, and when we left around 1.00 a.m. it was well above freezing and the snow and ice were melting furiously. I understand that the biggest single temperature rise that has been observed in Calgary has been 32 deg C in one hour. Certainly it’s not uncommon to have a high of –25 deg C on one day and a high of +15 deg C the next day.
The Chinook phenomenon gives us a welcome relief from the bitter cold of winter, but it exacts its price. Gardening is challenging in Calgary. Few tree species can stand the abuse of thinking that it’s spring, getting their sap running, and then returning to frigid conditions again. Hence there is a limited number of tree species that grow in Calgary. That, combined with the possibility of late springs and early autumns, means that flower and vegetable gardening also is a challenge in Calgary. Because Edmonton’s weather is more consistent, gardening is a more rewarding exercise in that city.
Another thing about the Chinook winds is that they give some people migraine headaches. Luckily for me, I am not one of those people. Even I can feel the positive ions in the air though, and they can make me feel grumpy. But usually I’m so glad to have the warm weather that I’m willing to put up with the positive ions.
The further south in Alberta you go, the stronger the Chinook phenomenon is. They get more Chinooks in Lethbridge than we get in Calgary. But Lethbridge also is a lot windier than Calgary is. There’s a joke that the residents of Lethbridge are permanently bent over because the wind has blown them into that position. The Chinooks are fairly frequent all the way through Calgary almost to Red Deer. Judging from the daily weather reports, Red Deer seems to be the point at which the Chinooks peter out, and the winter weather often seems to be noticeably colder from there northwards. The Chinooks occasionally do reach Edmonton, but usually in a much milder form. For example, a Chinook might bring Edmonton’s temperature up to the freezing mark, whereas it’ll bring Calgary’s temperature up to 10 deg C or 15 deg C.
Thanks for explaining your thinking, Jane. That's helpful.
I suppose when we first though about emigrating to Canada we thought as most people do of open countryside, mountain views etc.
Our business is internet based, so as long as we have a good internet connection our location is irrelevant.
So our main concerns are finding a nice property in a good location with reasonable weather.
Calgary is at a high elevation, in a transitional zone between the prairies and the mountains. Throughout the year mountain weather can push east as far as Calgary, and can bring snow. We've lived in Calgary since 1977 (except for a four-year gap when we went on back-to-back expat assignments to Houston and Melbourne). During our years in Calgary we've experienced snow as late as June and as early as August. It even has snowed in July while we've lived here, but we didn't witness it ourselves, because we happened to be away when it fell. Since weather records have been kept Calgary has experienced snow on every single day of the day (but not all in the same year!).
Conversely, the warm Chinook winds punctuate our winters with spring-like weather for a few days at a time. The most dramatic example I’ve witnessed was one New Year’s Eve. We went to a party at friends’ home. When we got there at 8.30 p.m. it was – 40 deg C, and when we left around 1.00 a.m. it was well above freezing and the snow and ice were melting furiously. I understand that the biggest single temperature rise that has been observed in Calgary has been 32 deg C in one hour. Certainly it’s not uncommon to have a high of –25 deg C on one day and a high of +15 deg C the next day.
The Chinook phenomenon gives us a welcome relief from the bitter cold of winter, but it exacts its price. Gardening is challenging in Calgary. Few tree species can stand the abuse of thinking that it’s spring, getting their sap running, and then returning to frigid conditions again. Hence there is a limited number of tree species that grow in Calgary. That, combined with the possibility of late springs and early autumns, means that flower and vegetable gardening also is a challenge in Calgary. Because Edmonton’s weather is more consistent, gardening is a more rewarding exercise in that city.
Another thing about the Chinook winds is that they give some people migraine headaches. Luckily for me, I am not one of those people. Even I can feel the positive ions in the air though, and they can make me feel grumpy. But usually I’m so glad to have the warm weather that I’m willing to put up with the positive ions.
The further south in Alberta you go, the stronger the Chinook phenomenon is. They get more Chinooks in Lethbridge than we get in Calgary. But Lethbridge also is a lot windier than Calgary is. There’s a joke that the residents of Lethbridge are permanently bent over because the wind has blown them into that position. The Chinooks are fairly frequent all the way through Calgary almost to Red Deer. Judging from the daily weather reports, Red Deer seems to be the point at which the Chinooks peter out, and the winter weather often seems to be noticeably colder from there northwards. The Chinooks occasionally do reach Edmonton, but usually in a much milder form. For example, a Chinook might bring Edmonton’s temperature up to the freezing mark, whereas it’ll bring Calgary’s temperature up to 10 deg C or 15 deg C.
Aug 15th 2005, 9:16 pm
#18
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Post 2 of 3
I’ve driven through Red Deer, and have stopped there for meals en route from Calgary to Edmonton or vice versa. I also have worked with people who have lived in Red Deer. For example, quite recently I worked for a company whose head office was in Red Deer. Various people, such as the president and comptroller, split their time between the Red Deer and Calgary offices. They seemed happy in Red Deer. They said it was a nice community in which to raise their children. It was big enough to have the amenities they wanted for their families (schools, hockey rinks and such), but was small enough that they could drive right across town in a few minutes.
I personally am not in the least bit attracted to Red Deer. I think it has neither the cultural amenities that are available in a city nor the charm of a small town like Bragg Creek. It’s considerably further from the mountains than Calgary is. Red Deer is a town in which there are a lot of companies that service the oil industry. The owners of some of those companies started out as manual labourers on the oil rigs and, through enterprise and hard work, have become millionaires. Some of them, including a couple of the owners of the afore mentioned company, are nouveau riche jerks. They have flashy houses at Sylvan Lake and flashy cars, but they treat their employees like dirt and they tend to trade in their 40-year old wives for two 20-year olds.
Many of the people who still work as labourers on the oil rigs have unstable home lives. Being away from home for weeks, even months, at a time, and being subject to recall at short notice, is not conducive to a happy family life, and it shows.
Most working class people whom I’ve met in small town Alberta have had a very parochial outlook on life. I currently am doing some health and safety documentation for a company that has two factories, one in the southeast industrial area in Calgary and the other in the industrial area in Airdrie. The Calgary factory employs many immigrants from countries that are or once were undesirable – Pinochet’s Chile, China, India, former Warsaw Pact countries, and so on. Some of them were highly educated in their countries of origin, but now are hampered by the fact that they are less than fluent in English. For example, one of the labourers in the Calgary factory had more than ten years of experience as a chemical engineer in China.
The Airdrie factory draws its employees from nearby farming towns like Crossfield. They’re almost all Canadian-born and white.
I find the immigrants to be aware of what’s happening around the world. The Canadian-born whites, however, seem to be very unaware. The day that the bombs went off in London, I walked into the office and said, “Jeez, that was really something about those bombs in London, wasn’t it?� Not only had my colleagues not heard of the bombs, but they weren’t interested in hearing about them either. They went back to discussing a Tupperware party or whatever it was that they’d been discussing when I interrupted them.
Rural Alberta also has a sprinkling of white supremacist groups. I’m not saying they’re the majority by any means, but they’re there.
There are many good-hearted souls in small country towns. Besides being kind, some of them have interests that interest me as well. For example, while raising cattle in feedlots is the norm here, there are a few farmers who raise free-range cattle and, in the process, are trying to preserve what’s left of Alberta’s native Pekisko grass. But it takes time to find kindred spirits. It doesn’t happen overnight.
I realise I may sound as if I’m saying that the only interesting people are the ones who share my interests. I don’t want to sound like that. People are entitled to have whatever interests interest them. However, since you will have come from another continent, I cannot imagine that you’ll view a tractor-pulling contest as the highlight of your year. Well that’s an exaggeration, obviously. However, I don’t know how to describe the concept that I’m trying to explain here other than by providing my subjective point of view.
I also think you underestimate how isolating it would be to live on an acreage in winter. I think you could get pretty depressed. A Canadian-born friend of mine, who now is 70 years of age, used to live on an acreage in the Turner Valley area, southwest of Calgary. She says that, when she and her husband moved out there around 1960, they thought it would be their dream come true. However, she suffered from depression during the years that they lived there. She would see her kids onto the school bus in the morning and then she’d do one of two things : (1) crawl back into bed until the kids were due to return home or (2) drive into town and go shopping. She said she found it soul destroying to spend the day doing housework on her own.
Now admittedly you and your husband would be kept busy running your business. Still, on a cold winter’s day when you didn’t feel like going out, you’d have only each other for company. I don’t know what your lifestyle is like now, but on the average Canadian acreage you couldn’t just walk to the local village on the spur of the moment to pick up a carton of milk during the winter months.
Does anyone know anything about Red Deer, Alberta area. We would not want to live in the actual town, but possibly the surrounding area.
I personally am not in the least bit attracted to Red Deer. I think it has neither the cultural amenities that are available in a city nor the charm of a small town like Bragg Creek. It’s considerably further from the mountains than Calgary is. Red Deer is a town in which there are a lot of companies that service the oil industry. The owners of some of those companies started out as manual labourers on the oil rigs and, through enterprise and hard work, have become millionaires. Some of them, including a couple of the owners of the afore mentioned company, are nouveau riche jerks. They have flashy houses at Sylvan Lake and flashy cars, but they treat their employees like dirt and they tend to trade in their 40-year old wives for two 20-year olds.
Many of the people who still work as labourers on the oil rigs have unstable home lives. Being away from home for weeks, even months, at a time, and being subject to recall at short notice, is not conducive to a happy family life, and it shows.
Most working class people whom I’ve met in small town Alberta have had a very parochial outlook on life. I currently am doing some health and safety documentation for a company that has two factories, one in the southeast industrial area in Calgary and the other in the industrial area in Airdrie. The Calgary factory employs many immigrants from countries that are or once were undesirable – Pinochet’s Chile, China, India, former Warsaw Pact countries, and so on. Some of them were highly educated in their countries of origin, but now are hampered by the fact that they are less than fluent in English. For example, one of the labourers in the Calgary factory had more than ten years of experience as a chemical engineer in China.
The Airdrie factory draws its employees from nearby farming towns like Crossfield. They’re almost all Canadian-born and white.
I find the immigrants to be aware of what’s happening around the world. The Canadian-born whites, however, seem to be very unaware. The day that the bombs went off in London, I walked into the office and said, “Jeez, that was really something about those bombs in London, wasn’t it?� Not only had my colleagues not heard of the bombs, but they weren’t interested in hearing about them either. They went back to discussing a Tupperware party or whatever it was that they’d been discussing when I interrupted them.
Rural Alberta also has a sprinkling of white supremacist groups. I’m not saying they’re the majority by any means, but they’re there.
There are many good-hearted souls in small country towns. Besides being kind, some of them have interests that interest me as well. For example, while raising cattle in feedlots is the norm here, there are a few farmers who raise free-range cattle and, in the process, are trying to preserve what’s left of Alberta’s native Pekisko grass. But it takes time to find kindred spirits. It doesn’t happen overnight.
I realise I may sound as if I’m saying that the only interesting people are the ones who share my interests. I don’t want to sound like that. People are entitled to have whatever interests interest them. However, since you will have come from another continent, I cannot imagine that you’ll view a tractor-pulling contest as the highlight of your year. Well that’s an exaggeration, obviously. However, I don’t know how to describe the concept that I’m trying to explain here other than by providing my subjective point of view.
I also think you underestimate how isolating it would be to live on an acreage in winter. I think you could get pretty depressed. A Canadian-born friend of mine, who now is 70 years of age, used to live on an acreage in the Turner Valley area, southwest of Calgary. She says that, when she and her husband moved out there around 1960, they thought it would be their dream come true. However, she suffered from depression during the years that they lived there. She would see her kids onto the school bus in the morning and then she’d do one of two things : (1) crawl back into bed until the kids were due to return home or (2) drive into town and go shopping. She said she found it soul destroying to spend the day doing housework on her own.
Now admittedly you and your husband would be kept busy running your business. Still, on a cold winter’s day when you didn’t feel like going out, you’d have only each other for company. I don’t know what your lifestyle is like now, but on the average Canadian acreage you couldn’t just walk to the local village on the spur of the moment to pick up a carton of milk during the winter months.
Aug 15th 2005, 9:30 pm
#19
Now on Vancouver Island
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,935
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Post 3 of 3
My assessment of Alberta’s cities and towns
Edmonton has a good cultural life and good opportunities for continuing education. It has a fairly consistent, four-season climate, albeit with cold winters. Its disadvantage, based on your stated criteria, is that it’s quite far from the mountains. You have to drive three hours to Hinton to see the mountains, and then you have to drive another hour to reach Jasper, which is really in the mountains.
Calgary is close to the mountains. It takes about an hour to get to the mountains, and another half hour to reach Banff, right in the mountains. Calgary nominally has a four-season climate, but it’s inconsistent. It experiences spells of summer in winter and spells of winter in summer. It has a fairly decent cultural life. Out of Alberta’s cities and towns, it provides the best access to the U.S. and Europe by air.
Towns that are fairly close to Calgary (Bragg Creek, Cochrane, even Canmore) can give you a small town feel while still giving you access to people who follow the news and stuff like that. Another good thing about these towns is that they’re close to the mountains, and they’re also close to Calgary Airport and city amenities when you want them. Their disadvantage is that they’re fairly expensive.
You can get some of Bragg Creek’s and Cochrane’s advantages by moving further out to places like Didsbury, Olds and Sundre. Then the concentration of red-necked people becomes higher, but there still is a sprinkling of people who are likely to share your interests. The advantage of moving further out is that property becomes more affordable.
Lethbridge is close enough to the mountains – a couple of hours. It gets more of the warm Chinooks than Calgary gets, but it’s windy. Property is very reasonably priced. Lethbridge’s advantage over Red Deer, in my opinion, is that it has a university. In my experience a town that has a university, even if it’s a small town, has some interesting people in it.
Hope that helps.
My assessment of Alberta’s cities and towns
Edmonton has a good cultural life and good opportunities for continuing education. It has a fairly consistent, four-season climate, albeit with cold winters. Its disadvantage, based on your stated criteria, is that it’s quite far from the mountains. You have to drive three hours to Hinton to see the mountains, and then you have to drive another hour to reach Jasper, which is really in the mountains.
Calgary is close to the mountains. It takes about an hour to get to the mountains, and another half hour to reach Banff, right in the mountains. Calgary nominally has a four-season climate, but it’s inconsistent. It experiences spells of summer in winter and spells of winter in summer. It has a fairly decent cultural life. Out of Alberta’s cities and towns, it provides the best access to the U.S. and Europe by air.
Towns that are fairly close to Calgary (Bragg Creek, Cochrane, even Canmore) can give you a small town feel while still giving you access to people who follow the news and stuff like that. Another good thing about these towns is that they’re close to the mountains, and they’re also close to Calgary Airport and city amenities when you want them. Their disadvantage is that they’re fairly expensive.
You can get some of Bragg Creek’s and Cochrane’s advantages by moving further out to places like Didsbury, Olds and Sundre. Then the concentration of red-necked people becomes higher, but there still is a sprinkling of people who are likely to share your interests. The advantage of moving further out is that property becomes more affordable.
Lethbridge is close enough to the mountains – a couple of hours. It gets more of the warm Chinooks than Calgary gets, but it’s windy. Property is very reasonably priced. Lethbridge’s advantage over Red Deer, in my opinion, is that it has a university. In my experience a town that has a university, even if it’s a small town, has some interesting people in it.
Hope that helps.
Aug 16th 2005, 1:23 am
#20
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 37
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
sorry we have never been to sw ontario but we do live on a farm about 20 mins os lethbridge....it is a very nice area with property prices in general being considerably lower than the bigger cities but it still comes down to location...a new 3 bed house on the trendy west side will cost maybe $250-280 k or an acreage 30 mins from town in a less desirable area could be had for $150-180 k. we like the area (picture butte)..real small town feel where we have been greeted with open arms but hopefully will be moving to edmonton for work..we appreciate it is dearer property wise and we will be sad to go but we have decided it is the right decision for us ..you should not have internet problems anywhere in alberta so long as the property has cable ...dunno about the rest of you but we feel there is almost too many options!!
Aug 16th 2005, 2:01 am
#21
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,883
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by gopher
you should not have internet problems anywhere in alberta so long as the property has cable ...dunno about the rest of you but we feel there is almost too many options!!
ADSL is an option in some areas but that service can be limited by location also. Something to do with signal strength as distance from a substation of sorts increases.
Aug 16th 2005, 11:30 am
#22
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by Hangman
Therein lies the problem. Not a lot of acreages have cable. I have a friend who lives right on the western edge of Calgary on an acreage and he does not have cable and must depend on dial-up for internet. It is my understanding that his only other option is satellite internet but that is still not as fast as cable.
ADSL is an option in some areas but that service can be limited by location also. Something to do with signal strength as distance from a substation of sorts increases.
ADSL is an option in some areas but that service can be limited by location also. Something to do with signal strength as distance from a substation of sorts increases.
Aug 16th 2005, 1:52 pm
#23
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,715
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Some of them, including a couple of the owners of the afore mentioned company, are nouveau riche jerks. They have flashy houses at Sylvan Lake and flashy cars, but they treat their employees like dirt and they tend to trade in their 40-year old wives for two 20-year olds.
....
I find the immigrants to be aware of what’s happening around the world. The Canadian-born whites, however, seem to be very unaware. The day that the bombs went off in London, I walked into the office and said, “Jeez, that was really something about those bombs in London, wasn’t it?� Not only had my colleagues not heard of the bombs, but they weren’t interested in hearing about them either. They went back to discussing a Tupperware party or whatever it was that they’d been discussing when I interrupted them.
Rural Alberta also has a sprinkling of white supremacist groups. I’m not saying they’re the majority by any means, but they’re there.
....
I find the immigrants to be aware of what’s happening around the world. The Canadian-born whites, however, seem to be very unaware. The day that the bombs went off in London, I walked into the office and said, “Jeez, that was really something about those bombs in London, wasn’t it?� Not only had my colleagues not heard of the bombs, but they weren’t interested in hearing about them either. They went back to discussing a Tupperware party or whatever it was that they’d been discussing when I interrupted them.
Rural Alberta also has a sprinkling of white supremacist groups. I’m not saying they’re the majority by any means, but they’re there.
<me shudders>
Aug 16th 2005, 2:04 pm
#24
Part Time Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 4,219
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by Hangman
ADSL is an option in some areas but that service can be limited by location also. Something to do with signal strength as distance from a substation of sorts increases.
and you won't find many of those outside a city..
the affordable satellite systems work by dialling out on the phone line and then sending the information back via the satellite..
However none of this would be much use with out a generator.... yep... Canadian power lines like to spend part of their winter on the ground.. so living out in the boonies requires the provision of a generator ..
I’ve no idea how reliable or unreliable the communication lines are out of town… but that’s something you need to seriously consider if you intend to run a high speed line for business
Aug 16th 2005, 2:17 pm
#25
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,883
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by MikeUK
DSL only really works well when your close to a digital exchange..
and you won't find many of those outside a city..
the affordable satellite systems work by dialling out on the phone line and then sending the information back via the satellite..
However none of this would be much use with out a generator.... yep... Canadian power lines like to spend part of their winter on the ground.. so living out in the boonies requires the provision of a generator ..
and you won't find many of those outside a city..
the affordable satellite systems work by dialling out on the phone line and then sending the information back via the satellite..
However none of this would be much use with out a generator.... yep... Canadian power lines like to spend part of their winter on the ground.. so living out in the boonies requires the provision of a generator ..
This is not a major problem in Alberta and the other prairie provinces.
We very seldom get freezing rain and never get ice storms.
Now watch after having said that we'll get a damned ice storm this winter.
:scared:
Aug 16th 2005, 6:34 pm
#26
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Nr Belleville, Ontario
Posts: 565
Re: Help! South Alberta or SW Ontario???
Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Post 3 of 3
My assessment of Alberta’s cities and towns
Hope that helps.
My assessment of Alberta’s cities and towns
Hope that helps.
I really appreciate all your information, thank you so much for your time & typing.
Hubby and I have been discussing this dilema and think that maybe we well land in Alberta and stay for a month or two. This will give us time to have a look around and get an idea of the general area. Hopefully we will be able to get a feel of the place and will know if we prefer Alberta to Ontario.
At the end of the day it is all a huge gamble, we could settle in either area and find blisfull happiness or complete misery, just like we could moving to another area of the UK.
We have certainly had a feel for Ontario and know that although we could not settle in London as we had first thought, we would be happy to settle in the Tillsonburg/Delhi/Simcoe region with the tobacco farmers!
The theory is that if we get to Alberta and feel much happier, then that is the place to be, likewise if we don't feel at home, the we can revert to our original plans.
As someone else mentioned I know the internet issue could be a problem. We now know the areas in Ontario which have the appropriate facilities, so we do know we can accommodate our needs there, but we would have to look into this for Alberta - something for the initial few weeks fact finding.
It is ironic that we are nearly two years into our emigration process and now at the last hurdle (hopefully) we are starting to re-think our plans. The only thing we are certain of it that we want to go to Canada.
huge thanks to all replies
Jane
