what's the point of maintaining an illusion (it's illusory, after all) with all the compromises that come with it?

Dodge Journey, aerodynamic? Current model year stats from Chrysler are 22/36mpg for the Journey V6, 23/36 for the Caravan. Not much in it unless you opt for the down-spec 4-cyl in the Journey (25/37), but why would you do that, especially if you're maintaining your mythical illusion...

I think you are under-estimating the resistance of a signficant percentage of the driving public to do anything to avoid driving a minivan. 2WD SUV, "Crossover", anything is better than the dreaded van.

Why do you think I drive a F150 Supercrew?

I was glad when the minivan years passed and I could get something more supportive of my self image.

I suppose I am lucky enough not to need to support my vehicular self-image through a compromised choice of family transport. I have a Morgan for that

No, I'm not underestimating it, I'm failing to understand it. MPVs sell in large numbers because they do what they are designed to do very well.

Mazda's current radio ad campaign for their 5 really annoys me for just this reason. FFS, it's a minivan - just a compact one, like all those hot-selling European things like the Citroen Picasso and the Renault Scenic and the VW Touran/Seat Altea etc. Acknowledge what it is, play to its strengths, but don't try and pretend it's somehow different from all the others.

And I thought your justification for the F150 supercrew was that the lease rate was stupidly cost-effective (read "cheap as chips") - are you now trying to retrofit an "it's not a minivan" position to emotionally justify your perfectly rational decision? I thought that was supposed to work the other way round!!

Understand it or not, a whole sector of the automotive industry has sprung up the cater for the "not a minivan" customer. Most SUV's, All CUV's and the aforementioned Mazda 5 et al.

You and I know that a Minivan is a hard to beat practical alternative if you need that much space and seating flexibility. There are some (Mrs AX being one) that simply cannot contemplate such a vehicle choice. No matter how it's marketed.


The justification for the F150 was a combination of stupidly cost effective lease proposition, some personal circs that mean we didn't want to get tied into extended financing/leasing, a desire for a roomy vehicle with 4x4, and the 'I've lived here for 8 years and always wanted one so it's about time I bloody well indulged myself for 2 years at least". Not being a minivan was a factor but only inasmuch as the alternatives would have been a Ford Escape or Hyundai Santa Fe, not a Dodge Caravan.

I know zero about cars, but we have a Hyundai, and a number of people we have met here have them too, and everybody seems to give them a big thumbs up.

We will buy a new car later in the year, and where we had planned to get a Suzuki crossover, we are now planning to get a Hyundai 4 door Accent as the one we have has been so very good and reliable (i hope I haven't just tempted providence). Best of luck.

Suzuki will soon stop selling cars in Canada,

https://www.google.ca/search?q=suzuk...&client=safari

We've had a Dodge Journey for a couple of years now and find it to be fine for us - a family of 4 but with plenty of visitors and kids' friends. We found the Caravan we had before a bit "wallowy" on the bends here on the Island.

It's a shame they weren't able to get a decent foothold into the north American market.

I'm onto my third Suzuki here (had two SX4s and a Kizashi) and I think they've been excellent cars, very practical in terms of what I've required from them and dealing with whatever weather Canada has thrown at them.

I'd get a Ford Transit Connect. You can pile all the kids in the back when you want and then you can also carry stuff around. Very practical.

You're a bit la-dee-da with your "connect" - Keep it simple.

You can't them over here though. I wish you could get proper Transit vans here as I'd be first in line.

coming out for the 2014 Model year apparently!

or do you mean a 70's Tranny?

Really? Hmm, that gives one food for thought. Her HID wants me to get a posh car but naff that for a game of soldiers. With a van, you can just just pull over to the side of the road and make a cup of tea. And you can go camping in it and all sorts.