Steve_

I've got to say nothing more clearly illustrates the difference between Canada and the US than this.

In Canada, they're scrapping the SIN card. If someone starts work for you, you're allowed under privacy laws to "request" (but not demand) that they provide ID so that you confirm who they are. If you have doubts, you can phone up Service Canada on a 800 number, sit there for ages, give them the SIN and they will "verify" it for you, which basically means they match the number to the name. None of which prevents someone from using someone else's number, nor for example could they tell you if the person has lost their PR status.

In the US, they've proposed (and will likely implement) biometric SSN cards, and employers will have a card reader to read the chip on the card, and the card reader will be linked to DHS SAVE in order to establish that the person is in fact authorized to work.

Currently, you have to give an I-9 to the employer and under penalty of perjury punishable by five years in prison, state how and why you are authorized to work and give ID listed on the form to prove it. Employers are also subject to sanction if they fail to collect the information or commit fraud.

In addition, there is the "E-verify" system that employers can sign up to (in a lot of States, have to sign up to) which also is linked to DHS SAVE to determine employment eligibility and the employer types in all the information from the I-9. And - they're linking it into all the DMV databases so the employer can see their ID photo in the system.

Land of the free, home of the brave...

dbd33

The method of administration of work identification numbers differs. Ah! At last I see how there's a great gulf between the way of life in the US and in Canada.

scrubbedexpat091

I'll venture a guess and say there are a larger number of people trying to work in the US illegally vs Canada, so gotta have some sort of secure program in place to ensure only those legally allowed to work are working.

not2old

I have my old cardboard NI card as do I the original grey bi-fold 'National Identity' card from when I was born which has an expiry date on it for when I turned 16.

with Canada on ID, everything is tagged back to your SIN number - from the provincial health card, passport, drivers license, bank accounts & credit cards. Canada has 'big brother' mastered.

In the UK government department, last I found out was that they are still behind the times sharing interpepartment info or database cross checking

MarylandNed

Bingo!

Hawk13

I still have my old SIN card but it doesn't have an expiry date.

Didn't know this:

Social Insurance Numbers that begin with the number "9" are issued to temporary residents who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents (e.g., foreign students, individuals on work visas).


And I didn't know this:

Social Insurance Numbers can be validated through a simple check digit process called the Luhn Algorithm.
046 454 286 <--- A fictitious, but valid SIN
121 212 121 <--- Multiply each top number by the number below it.

So the result of the multiplication is:
086 858 276

Then, add all of the digits together:
0+8+6+8+5+8+2+7+6=50

If the SIN is valid, this number will be evenly divisible by 10

beckiwoo

Had to get a copy of my driving licence recently. DVLA wanted my NI number and passport number as well as my licence number

orly

lots of "not immediately obvious" math or formatting tricks like this around.

Ontario driving licence numbers are another with some particular "rules" that allow the casual observer to determine if they're real or not.

Steve_

Oh come on, in Canada it's so laissez-faire and they almost don't care at all, in the US they're spending billions on it, literally. And in Canada there's some guy at the end of the phone and in the US they're trying to use technology to do it all. Typical Canada v. US contrast.

Steve_

I doubt there's that much of a difference. Loads of people working illegally in Canada. The difference is that Canada is more immigrant friendly and in the US there is total paranoia. Obviously if you can GET a work permit there are less people who are going to be illegally present.

Steve_

So that's what that payroll software I installed for some client was doing when I was testing it. I wondered why it rejected some numbers.

But anyway, it doesn't stop ID theft and under privacy law (which varies depending on where you live in Canada) you cannot demand any other ID to go with it. You can only request it.

orly

Now that you know the algorithm you can generate your own valid SINs for whatever you like

FlyingDutchman6666

Are there any 'hard' numbers for illegals in Canada vs. the US?

scrubbedexpat091

The US doesn't need to be immigration friendly.

orly

Why do you think that?