They hop on the tram. They can do this because there's transit. It seems to me that the responsible thing is for parents to live somewhere with transit, otherwise they have to provide their children with cars to use while they experiment with booze and drugs; that's expensive and not very safe.

I know a good number of people who live in Toronto and don't have cars. Some don't drive at all, others use a car sharing or rental service from time to time. I don't think that, apart from Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, Canada's viable without a car.

Montreal's not a runner unless the OP speaks French. The Toronto suburbs aren't viable without a car. In Toronto proper I don't think one wage of $90,000 will support 4 people in the manner described. Vancouver's drizzlier than Essex. Something's gotta give.

Peterborough has transit so surely other cities of a similar size do? Transit does tend to be within that city so jif the kids need transoort to hockey, soccer, dancing etc then one of you will be a taxi service.

Hamilton has a great transit system too - I use it extensively as I don't have a vehicle - and you can also get a train or bus to Toronto (Go transit) or further afield.

Here is the link for the Go train http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/...es/sysmap.aspx

Toronto Union is Toronto center. My husband has just been in Burlington (that's on the Lakeshore West line to Toronto, so is Hamilton) and said it was nice there and has public transit within the city. Lake Ontario is great. It's hot (but humid) in summer here in southern Ontario and very cold and lots of snow in winter.

Ottawa has good public transit, too and are building the light rail in the moment http://www.octranspo1.com/?from=splash but you'd have to live in the city or in the suburbs. As soon as you get further into the country side you'd need a car.

I suffered through a winter of public transit in Ottawa. I suppose it's good compared to, er, somewhere else, somewhere where there isn't any, but I think someone used to Maldon would find it very limited.

Burlington's a suburb of Toronto, the transit in the suburbs is set up to get people to Toronto for work and back again after work. That's fine, if it's what you need to do because you can't afford to live in Toronto, but it's no help to someone who's stuck in Burlington and doesn't drive. Admittedly, someone in Burlington is most likely to want to go to Toronto but not necessarily at commuter times.

It wasn't the winter where they went on strike by any chance

IMO anywhere in Canada will be a lot tougher to get around, unless one lives in a city center with shopping near by, without even being able to drive than it is in England or continental Europe, where everything is much closer and better connected. When my husband went on a works trip and took the car I was fine on public transport here in Ottawa, although it would have been impossible to visit my friend who lives out in the sticks. Now that we're moving very ruraly we needed to get a 2nd car otherwise OH can't get to work. I've lived in many places in different countries but I find Ottawa has a fairly good transit system within the city's/suburbs boundaries but beyond that it's non existent.
If I was in the OP's situation I'd have a look at Toronto and the GTA as that seems to tick most of his boxes.

It was the year of the beer strike, the only beer available was Tuborg (dear God, we suffered). I think the buses were running but it's hard to tell.

I generally agree with your comments. I think that if the OP could live in Toronto then it'd all work. The problem there is money, unless they have a pile of cash, the price of a house, then I think they're stuck in the 'burbs and that's almost as car dependent as living in the country. They could, I suppose, look at moving somewhere within the bounds of the TTC but rough, though it's hard to see what such a move would gain them.

Imagine the only beer available was Carling

Best for the OP would probably be a recce trip without a car rental and try the public transport out. See how his wife gets around. Because if she feels trapped in the burbs then there won't be any gain for sure. I think one that is used to use the buses will think differently to us drivers being used to get quickly from A to B unless stuck in traffic

Something that might be of interest for the OP would be to look at properties for sale on mls and the associated Walk Scores. That's a clue to a property being rural (ours scores zero) but also to the nature of the 'burbs, a low score in an apparently developed area indicates a long trudge to the shop (forget walkable pubs or restaurants) and probably to the bus stop. Suburbs are not intended for walking, there usually aren't pavements, so I think somewhere with a low score would be a poor choice if the family doesn't anticipate having a car each.

A recce without a car would be educational, the snag being that spending most of a limited trip waiting for buses isn't very time efficient.

OK do a recce with a rental car but use the bus sometimes

I drive and we currently live in a fairly city near suburb with good public transport, we score 30 on mls walk score which is 2nd to lowest category and that's about right. I could get around with the bus and bike though but if I didn't have a car would probably move in an area that's at least in the "somewhat walkable" category or higher.

Don't underestimate distances here. When we drove from North Manchester 10 miles/25 mins to Didsbury we'd think it was quite a drive. Now we have the exact distance and time to get to our nearest Costco and think it's not a big deal.

MLS walk score is a very good tip to get an idea, combined with looking at the transit maps of the chosen area and google maps with parcs and playgrounds will get the OP an idea of how easy it would be for his wife to get around!

Costco would be a challenge without a car. You'd need to be somewhere with taxis and then not too far from the shop. I suppose our usual grocery round, to the market and back via Costco, would cost several hundred dollars in a cab; you'd have to be fetching some massive number of toilet rolls to make that pay.

My walk score is 82, I am a 3-4 minute walk to 2 separate bus routes; I have restaurants, take-outs, supermarkets within a 5-10 minute walk. Hamilton is far cheaper than Toronto for housing too, yet despite many people knocking it there are some really beautiful areas and lots of parks and walking areas.

Burlington does have buses for within the City itself http://cms.burlington.ca/page6029.aspx and there is also the GO transit, a great waterfront park and a nice 'downtown' core. I would prefer to live in Burlington but house prices are higher there.

Actually the murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) have been closer than you think. The rates were actually equal (1.8) in 2001. The UK actually had a higher murder rate in 2002 (2.1 vs 1.9) and 2003 (1.8 vs 1.7). Murder rates in both countries have declined in recent years. The latest figures available from the UN are 1.6 for Canada in 2010 and 1.2 for the UK in 2009. By comparison, the murder rate in the US has declined from 6.2 in 1998 to 4.8 in 2010. Some European countries have rates below 1.0 e.g. Germany (0.8), Spain (0.8) and Italy (0.9).

Hi,

Thanks for all your help so far. Quite worried as I just did the FSW test on the CIC site and it said I'm not eligible, despite putting that I'm proficient in both languages and have a permanent job offer (I don't but wanted to see how I scored if I did). Confused as I'm in one of the listed occupations, within the best age bracket and have a reasonable qualification.

EDIT: Will post about this separately as it's deviating from the original question somewhat

I've seen that but never paid any attention. You made me curious and I see from the house opposite that I'm 53 - the next one down Somewhat Walkable -Some amenities within walking distance as opposed to Very Walkable - Most errands can be accomplished on foot.

Doesn't sound that accurate.

I have big pharmacy, post office, green grocer, butcher, gen store, Italian/Chinese/Vietnamese/French/Indian restaurants and banks all within 5 minutes. The city hospital is even closer. A couple more minutes gets the usual KFC/Burger King/McDonalds/Harveys/Pizza Hut and the Liquor store and Bowling.

Less than 15 minutes walk gets me to a decent supermarket, the doctor, Canadian Tire, another big pharmacy, clothes store, Dollarama, a nice park, the "Y" for swimming or whatever.

If it was just me I'd continue doing everything by bike or on foot.

I'm 5 minutes from three different bus routes and when a taxi is needed it's rare to pay more than $10 a ride.

Unfortunately the bus company - run by the city and particularly the mayor - decided to teach the bus drivers a lesson last year. The drivers voted over 90% to reject a pay offer and they were promptly Locked Out and we had no buses for something like 5 months.

I don't think this is unheard of in Canada, so even where there is good transit, the service may well disappear for a large period.